New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[BeerFst]

I add 1 tablespoon of ascorbic acid powder to all my kegs before racking, and I swear it makes a difference, especially my hoppy beers. My beer appears to be brighter for longer. Even if it's anecdotal, it's cheap enough to continue to use it.

Thank you both.

do you adjust for pH before/after whirlpool/dry hop? I do not.

I wonder if given that its an acid, if that "brightness" is from the slight pH correction that would have otherwise been absent. Particularly since you stated a notable difference in hoppy beers, which might suffer from pH increase due to the larger hop loads.

Did you get some on amazon or just LHBS/OHBS?

 

[wepeeler]

Thank you both.

do you adjust for pH before/after whirlpool/dry hop? I do not.

I wonder if given that its an acid, if that "brightness" is from the slight pH correction that would have otherwise been absent. Particularly since you stated a notable difference in hoppy beers, which might suffer from pH increase due to the larger hop loads.

Did you get some on amazon or just LHBS/OHBS?

I have no idea what ascorbic acid does for pH - I only adjust pH when mashing. Ascorbic acid has been quoted as a O2 scrubber (antioxidant). Many people claim it helps minimize oxidation, although some say it's an oxidizer, so there's that lol. Personally, I'll continue to use it until I experience oxidation. As for hoppy beer, such as a NEIPA, hops are extremely volatile and react to oxygen and stale quickly. I think it's less of a pH reaction vs hops go bad in the presence of O2, so the less the better.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I have not adjusted ph post mash personally.. it's on my list things to try but haven't yet. I ordered mine from Amazon.

 

[BeerFst]

I have no idea what ascorbic acid does for pH - I only adjust pH when mashing. Ascorbic acid has been quoted as a O2 scrubber (antioxidant). Many people claim it helps minimize oxidation, although some say it's an oxidizer, so there's that lol. Personally, I'll continue to use it until I experience oxidation. As for hoppy beer, such as a NEIPA, hops are extremely volatile and react to oxygen and stale quickly. I think it's less of a pH reaction vs hops go bad in the presence of O2, so the less the better.

yeah that's definitely the use case here, scrub O2. I get that. I'm just saying as it is an Acid just like the Lactic/phosphoric one might use in the mash (i do adjust my mash as well) it should reduce your beers pH. High hop loads can increase your pH and so I know a few on here have been adjusting post whirlpool to account for that. I think @secretlevel has done it recently.

Too high of a pH is often described as muted or "flabby" which I interpret as the opposite of "bright". I don't know what molarity/% solution one tbsp in 5gallons results in, but it could reduce pH and provide a result similar to adjusting before pitch. That's actually a bonus and maybe a reason to use ascorbic over P or KMeta

 

[murphyslaw]

Has anyone here tried fermenting and serving a NEIPA from the same keg? I had been curious about trying it for a long time and finally did it with a Cold IPA a few months ago. It was came out fantastic and now I’m thinking about doing it with a NEIPA I have fermenting. I can’t imagine why it wouldn’t work just as well on a NEIPA.

 

[TBA]

Has anyone here tried fermenting and serving a NEIPA from the same keg? I had been curious about trying it for a long time and finally did it with a Cold IPA a few months ago. It was came out fantastic and now I’m thinking about doing it with a NEIPA I have fermenting. I can’t imagine why it wouldn’t work just as well on a NEIPA.

How did you handle dry hopping and preventing O2 exposure?

 

[murphyslaw]

How did you handle dry hopping and preventing O2 exposure?

I opened the keg and tossed them in before fermentation was complete. For this one, I think I’ll soft crash and then toss them in and use tank co2 to purge like most here do. Maybe add some AA as people suggested.

 

[TBA]

I opened the keg and tossed them in before fermentation was complete. For this one, I think I’ll soft crash and then toss them in and use tank co2 to purge like most here do. Maybe add some AA as people suggested.

Thanks, I have done the same. Seems to work fine. I don't use much AA but I do dissolve it in a little hot water first.

 

[murphyslaw]

I've got my first batch with A24 going right now and that thing is raging. Maybe its because I'm fermenting warmer than usual, but I could can hear the bubbles through the fridge and in the next room. That has not been my experience with GY54, WLP095, or 1318.

 

[BeerFst]

Has anyone here tried fermenting and serving a NEIPA from the same keg? I had been curious about trying it for a long time and finally did it with a Cold IPA a few months ago. It was came out fantastic and now I’m thinking about doing it with a NEIPA I have fermenting. I can’t imagine why it wouldn’t work just as well on a NEIPA.

I have done this frequently just to save time on transfers. I've tried this for a ton of different styles with success. you can still crash yeast out then dry hop, but the only thing you really can't do is rouse the dry hops. Personally, i think the ability to rouse is key to dry hopping cold. I seem to have the best success when i'm dry hopping closer to 63/65, which could restart ferm. However, my earlier batches, before i started trying dry hopping cold, also used a straight dip tube with the janish filter on it (the one from utah biodiesel) so I was pulling beer from the bottom of the keg, through the dry hop. More recently, when doing colder dry hops, I've been using a top draw system. I'm not certain this wasn't a factor as well, adding to my perception that warmer was better back then.

I still dry hop after fermentation, i let the CO2 flow while opening the lid and that seems to work well, though I think i will consider AA in the near future as well. I'd also like to do some more batches with rousing or rolling the keg during dry hop so I'm likely to avoid fermenting in the same keg for now.

 

[Dgallo]

I've got my first batch with A24 going right now and that thing is raging. Maybe its because I'm fermenting warmer than usual, but I could can hear the bubbles through the fridge and in the next room. That has not been my experience with GY54, WLP095, or 1318.

I love a24. Bright stonefruit and citrus but still allows the hops to shine. I allow my fermentation to get to 75-76 with it actually

 

[murphyslaw]

I love a24. Bright stonefruit and citrus but still allows the hops to shine. I allow my fermentation to get to 75-76 with it actually

I'm following the fermentation schedule you recommended to me a month or two ago.

 

[daygobrewer]

Has anyone here tried fermenting and serving a NEIPA from the same keg? I had been curious about trying it for a long time and finally did it with a Cold IPA a few months ago. It was came out fantastic and now I’m thinking about doing it with a NEIPA I have fermenting. I can’t imagine why it wouldn’t work just as well on a NEIPA.

I've been doing this consistently but was unhappy with the aroma from the dry hop. I suspect the reduced surface area is the cause. With the presence of trub, rousing wasn't an option. The NEIPA I currently have on tap was fermented in one keg, and then transferred to another keg for dry hopping and serving. I added the dry hops to the serving keg before transferring the beer from the fermenting keg. My hope was there would be more of a "mixing" action of the hops as the beer filled the serving keg. So far there's definitely an improvement in aroma.

That's not to say fermenting, dry hopping, and serving from a single keg, won't work for you, though.

For any style that didn't require a large dry hop, I wouldn't hesitate to ferment and serve from the same keg. It's incredibly convenient.

 

[murphyslaw]

Thought this might have been of interest to those following this thread.

 

[murphyslaw]

View attachment 784643

Thought this might have been of interest to those following this thread.

They compared no dry hop, dry hop on day 0, dry hop on day 4 (when fermentation ended), and dry hop on day 8 (when cold crash was completed, I.e, hopping at 40 degrees). They refer to the day 4 addition as warm to cold because the hops went at ferm temp and rode the cold crash down to 40. It’s not clear to me if the hops were removed or left in the fermenter.

Compared to the control that was not dry hopped, all three had higher levels of tropical fruit flavors. Day 0 had the most, Day 4 was close to 0, and day 8 was less. So their takeaway was that they can make 3 perceptibly different beers with the same recipe by changing the dry hop timing.

I’m not sure I learned anything I’d put into practice. Dry hopping in the 40s had some negative effects, but nobody is doing that anyway, I don’t think. If you like biotransformation, you might see support in day 0 having more tropical fruit flavor than day 4. But you don’t believe in biotransformation, maybe you’d see the “similar” as evidence that it doesn’t matter.

 

[tracer bullet]

Day 0 had the most, Day 4 was close to 0, and day 8 was less. So their takeaway was that they can make 3 perceptibly different beers with the same recipe by changing the dry hop timing.

I've downloaded it but not listened to it yet. Did they have other characteristics to describe? Undesired flavors, burn, anything like that? Seems there's always a balance to be had.

Dang now I really need to find time to listen to it.

 

[murphyslaw]

I've downloaded it but not listened to it yet. Did they have other characteristics to describe? Undesired flavors, burn, anything like that? Seems there's always a balance to be had.

Dang now I really need to find time to listen to it.

They looked at the effect on the yeast, and basically found none. There was some effect on the cell health but not on attenuation or floc or anything that interested me.

They did talk about sulfur notes, which, if I remember right were highest in the day 0 dry hop and lowest in the day 8 dry hop. They viewed the day 4/warm to cold dry hop as the best of both worlds, getting the most of the tropical flavor and avoiding most of the sulfur notes. They also said the cold hopped version had several other negative flavor characteristics but I don’t recall what. I didn’t pay much attention to that as I wasn’t really interested in hopping at 40f.

It’s interesting because it’s Sierra Nevada and because they had a pretty well designed experiment. But I didn’t walk away feeling like I’m going to apply anything they learned. Ymmv.

 

[stickyfinger]

Just did a split batch with helio gazer vs british ale V. Definitely a big difference. Both beers are great. Didn’t add any hops to the mash. It’s like the helio gazer had a large charge of nelson in it i guess. Very good. The big mystery is the helio gazer is 6.3% and the BAV is 7.0%. One of them had a ton more cold break. Maybe that was the difference?

 

[Apmarand]

What was your AA? I’ve gotten 80-83 on three batches so far with HG. Same pitch rate?

 

[Dgallo]

Just did a split batch with helio gazer vs british ale V. Definitely a big difference. Both beers are great. Didn’t add any hops to the mash. It’s like the helio gazer had a large charge of nelson in it i guess. Very good. The big mystery is the helio gazer is 6.3% and the BAV is 7.0%. One of them had a ton more cold break. Maybe that was the difference?

How did you pull off the wort for both batches? And possibility for stratification?

 

[stickyfinger]

How did you pull off the wort for both batches? And possibility for stratification?

one had a lot more cold break. other than that they should be the same. i don't remember which one had all of the cold break.

 

[stickyfinger]

What was your AA? I’ve gotten 80-83 on three batches so far with HG. Same pitch rate?

now that i think about it, my wife remarked on how there seemed to be more yeast in the starter that had more attenuation. Maybe the other yeast was less viable. One was around 76% the other around 68%.

 

[Apmarand]

How you split the batches could potentially have a major impact (I.e. stratification as pointed out by @Dgallo). If you load the FVs sequentially, that would explain the differences. I can’t imagine trub having an impact on AA, at least in my experience.

 

[beervoid]

How you split the batches could potentially have a major impact (I.e. stratification as pointed out by @Dgallo). If you load the FVs sequentially, that would explain the differences. I can’t imagine trub having an impact on AA, at least in my experience.

Trub is proteins, proteins drag down IBU?

 

[Apmarand]

Trub certainly has an effect on foam, but to my knowledge, should not have a significant impact on attenuation as observed by @stickyfinger. I can imagine, however, trub proteins stripping hop oils as particulates/yeast settle when fermentation finishes.

 

[stickyfinger]

Trub certainly has an effect on foam, but to my knowledge, should not have a significant impact on attenuation as observed by @stickyfinger. I can imagine, however, trub proteins stripping hop oils as particulates/yeast settle when fermentation finishes.

it must have been that the helio yeast was a little less viable. nothing else really seems to make sense to me. i also had to ferment both batches in one fridge with the probe on the heliogazer version. i guess that could have done something. it just seems odd to me. i did a couple stouts that had wildly different fermentation temperature graphs and they were exactly the same (using wy1450)

 

[wepeeler]

They compared no dry hop, dry hop on day 0, dry hop on day 4 (when fermentation ended), and dry hop on day 8 (when cold crash was completed, I.e, hopping at 40 degrees). They refer to the day 4 addition as warm to cold because the hops went at ferm temp and rode the cold crash down to 40. It’s not clear to me if the hops were removed or left in the fermenter.

Compared to the control that was not dry hopped, all three had higher levels of tropical fruit flavors. Day 0 had the most, Day 4 was close to 0, and day 8 was less. So their takeaway was that they can make 3 perceptibly different beers with the same recipe by changing the dry hop timing.

I’m not sure I learned anything I’d put into practice. Dry hopping in the 40s had some negative effects, but nobody is doing that anyway, I don’t think. If you like biotransformation, you might see support in day 0 having more tropical fruit flavor than day 4. But you don’t believe in biotransformation, maybe you’d see the “similar” as evidence that it doesn’t matter.

Scott Janish at Sapwood and the author of The New IPA say they drop hop most of their beers at 40-45F. It's in the Push the Limit of hops article in Beer and Brewing magazine.

 

[wepeeler]

Just did a split batch with helio gazer vs british ale V. Definitely a big difference. Both beers are great. Didn’t add any hops to the mash. It’s like the helio gazer had a large charge of nelson in it i guess. Very good. The big mystery is the helio gazer is 6.3% and the BAV is 7.0%. One of them had a ton more cold break. Maybe that was the difference?

I used BAV for my last batch and I got higher attenuation than some other yeasts I've used too. Blew off 3x. Seems to me like it's very similar to London Ale III or Imperial Juice. It was juicy, but drier than say Coastal Haze or London Fog, both of which I really love.

 

[Apmarand]

I used BAV for my last batch and I got higher attenuation than some other yeasts I've used too. Blew off 3x. Seems to me like it's very similar to London Ale III or Imperial Juice. It was juicy, but drier than say Coastal Haze or London Fog, both of which I really love.

BAV is OYL’s LA3 equivalent

 

[wepeeler]

BAV is OYL’s LA3 equivalent

Well, there you have it! To me, it finishes too dry unless you mash high. I also get more bitterness/hop burn/astringency. I'm not a huge LA3 fan to begin with.