New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Dgallo]

So I tried a step mash process this time for fun and lost points on my mash efficiency. I normally mash at 152-154 for 90 minutes and can hit my numbers. This time I did Dgallos suggested 146 for 40min and then 158 for 30 minutes and was way low on my pre boil gravity. I ended up with 1.052 instead of my target of 1.068. Obviously it’s an east fix to just adjust the mash efficiency numbers, but Im curious to know if that’s normal? Or did I do something wrong? Nothing else was changed. Crush size, water chemistry and grain bill was the same from my previous brew which was 92% mash efficiency without the step mash process. Thoughts?

16 points is a huge difference. Step mashing tends to increase efficiencies. Mine has gone up since adding it to my process . Was water volume and mash thickness the same as usual? And do you personally weigh the grain yourself?

 

[kingmatt]

So I tried a step mash process this time for fun and lost points on my mash efficiency. I normally mash at 152-154 for 90 minutes and can hit my numbers. This time I did Dgallos suggested 146 for 40min and then 158 for 30 minutes and was way low on my pre boil gravity. I ended up with 1.052 instead of my target of 1.068. Obviously it’s an east fix to just adjust the mash efficiency numbers, but Im curious to know if that’s normal? Or did I do something wrong? Nothing else was changed. Crush size, water chemistry and grain bill was the same from my previous brew which was 92% mash efficiency without the step mash process. Thoughts?

92% efficiency! good for you man, i've never even sniffed those kind of numbers...

 

[Surfnsd]

Not normal. If anything, step mashing increases yield... Can you confirm that your thermometer/hydrometer/scale (to measure grain) are calibrated? I would be surprised if it was the 20 minute difference in total mash time.

I brew on an SS brewtech 3v system with a brand new controller, Blickman rims with an SS brewtech mash ton. Water temps all checked out as accurate. My refractometer was in line with my Tilt when I filled the fermentor. If I were to add back the 20 minutes, would I do that on the first or second step?

 

[Surfnsd]

16 points is a huge difference. Step mashing tends to increase efficiencies. Mine has gone up since adding it to my process . Was water volume and mash thickness the same as usual? And do you personally weigh the grain yourself?

Yea, I weigh and mill everything myself. The water volumes are almost a perfect 50/50 between the mash ton and sparge. 4.33 in the ton and 4.20 in the HLT

 

[Apmarand]

I brew on an SS brewtech 3v system with a brand new controller, Blickman rims with an SS brewtech mash ton. Water temps all checked out as accurate. My refractometer was in line with my Tilt when I filled the fermentor. If I were to add back the 20 minutes, would I do that on the first or second step?

I would add it to both rests (10min each) personally. I agree with @Dgallo, 16 points is a lot. Most conversion happens really quickly. It’s probably something else in your process. Hard to say what. Do you check/confirm temps with a secondary thermometer? Anything else different between this and previous batches?

 

[Apmarand]

How different were your OGs at knock out?

 

[Surfnsd]

I never have double checked the temps with a secondary thermometer but maybe now I will on the next batch. Probably not a bad idea to pull out and clean the probe as well. The only thing I did different was lessen the grain bill on this one. The last batch I did was an 8% beer, wanted something a little less, so using brewfather I scaled the recipe down to make a 6.8-7% beer. I’ve done that in the past and still been able to hit my numbers, but after trying the step process (which I’ve done with Hefeweizens) I couldn’t hit any numbers. Tonight when I get home I’ll pull my temp probe from the RIMS tower and take a look at it.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Even more odd, typically efficiency is better with a lower gravity brew. And 92% on an 8% abv is impressive. I'm happy if it hit 85% on my spike 3v2p eherms.

 

[anteater8]

Excited to use HBC 586 for the first time in my next NEIPA. I'm thinking about doing the Trillium style with all Columbus in the whirlpool and then HBC 586, Citra & Columbus in the whirlpool. I'm curious what combos others have had success with, I also have these on hand:

Amarillo
El Dorado
Mosaic
Nelson
Riwaka
Strata

 

[Dgallo]

Excited to use HBC 586 for the first time in my next NEIPA. I'm thinking about doing the Trillium style with all Columbus in the whirlpool and then HBC 586, Citra & Columbus in the whirlpool. I'm curious what combos others have had success with, I also have these on hand:

Amarillo
El Dorado
Mosaic
Nelson
Riwaka
Strata

In general, Nelson Riwaka Citra is my top 2 combo. Might be my favorite all time

 

[Apmarand]

Excited to use HBC 586 for the first time in my next NEIPA. I'm thinking about doing the Trillium style with all Columbus in the whirlpool and then HBC 586, Citra & Columbus in the whirlpool. I'm curious what combos others have had success with, I also have these on hand:

Amarillo
El Dorado
Mosaic
Nelson
Riwaka
Strata

This is my next beer (plus strata) let us know how it goes

 

[Ridenour64]

I scanned through last few pages and didn’t see any mention of this, but are you guys adding ascorbic acid or sulfites at any stages? If so, when, and how much? Any other additions in the mix these days? I’m aware of the usual methods of oxygen prevention - purging kegs, closed transfers, running CO2 while dry hopping ETC.

 

[Dgallo]

I scanned through last few pages and didn’t see any mention of this, but are you guys adding ascorbic acid or sulfites at any stages? If so, when, and how much? Any other additions in the mix these days? I’m aware of the usual methods of oxygen prevention - purging kegs, closed transfers, running CO2 while dry hopping ETC.

The only people adding absorbic acid in NEIPA are folks that have very little anti o2 practices. I’m not sure why anyone would had metasulphate or potassium Sorbate in a NEIPA. Both prevent microbe growth, brewers yeast included. But the yeast are already in the beer so it won’t prevent hop creep and there’s really no other benefit

 

[Ulisses4677]

I scanned through last few pages and didn’t see any mention of this, but are you guys adding ascorbic acid or sulfites at any stages? If so, when, and how much? Any other additions in the mix these days? I’m aware of the usual methods of oxygen prevention - purging kegs, closed transfers, running CO2 while dry hopping ETC.

In the mash about 3-5 grams.

 

[TBA]

In general, Nelson Riwaka Citra is my top 2 combo. Might be my favorite all time

Any idea if the thiols from Halio Gazer would fill in for the Nelson? Planning out a couple brew for HG.

 

[Ridenour64]

The only people adding absorbic acid in NEIPA are folks that have very little anti o2 practices. I’m not sure why anyone would had metasulphate or potassium Sorbate in a NEIPA. Both prevent microbe growth, brewers yeast included. But the yeast are already in the beer so it won’t prevent hop creep and there’s really no other benefit

I’m not keen on the science but I am pretty sure sulfites provide some level of defense from oxygen. For this purpose, they would be added after the yeast had done their job. I would imagine a good time would be during dry hopping, or at packaging. I agree you should definitely do your best to avoid it in the first place, but if effective, campden tablets would be cheap insurance.

 

[Ridenour64]

In the mash about 3-5 grams.

That early in the process provide a layer of defense while in the keg? Or is that simply providing protection during the mash? You have any resources where I can read up on this a bit more?

 

[anteater8]

In general, Nelson Riwaka Citra is my top 2 combo. Might be my favorite all time

That combo is on my list for another time! This time I'm looking to maximize my use of HBC 586.

 

[Apmarand]

Any idea if the thiols from Halio Gazer would fill in for the Nelson? Planning out a couple brew for HG.

Not if you add a big dry hop. 1oz/gal has been the sweet spot for me. Much more and the vegetal matter sucks it all down.

 

[Dgallo]

Any idea if the thiols from Halio Gazer would fill in for the Nelson? Planning out a couple brew for HG.

I have not brewered with it myself but a guy in my club just shared a heliogizer NEIPA with us last meeting. The aroma was awesome from a distance but when you put your nose in the glass I genuinely thought it smelt like BO. The taste had a bit of bo in it too.

You can take this with a grain of salt, I personally have not liked any of the thiolized beers I’ve brewered or had. That said some people love them. All I ca think is I am sensitive to thiols and have a low threshold for them

 

[ihavenonickname]

I’ve used Kmeta 0.04g/gal added with the post fermentation DH for a while. I think of it as easy low risk insurance. I like to think it makes a difference if a keg of IPA was gonna stick around for 3 months or so. I don’t think my beers drop off at all up to about 3-4 months (never tried longer). I’ve also used it in WCIPA added with the gelatin. Those beers I’m dry hopping warm to let the hop creep dry the beer out more, so I use it later in the process. The opposite for hazies.

Also, I’ve used Asc Ac in the mash in overnight mash with no I’ll effects thinking it might help (but the theoretical benefit doesn’t make as much sense so to me as kmeta cold side).

 

[BrewMan13]

I have not brewered with it myself but a guy in my club just shared a heliogizer NEIPA with us last meeting. The aroma was awesome from a distance but when you put your nose in the glass I genuinely thought it smelt like BO. The taste had a bit of bo in it too.

You can take this with a grain of salt, I personally have not liked any of the thiolized beers I’ve brewered or had. That said some people love them. All I ca think is I am sensitive to thiols and have a low threshold for them

I know you aren't the only one in our club not a fan of the thiolized beers . Though Anthony had one over the weekend that was more balanced, and one of the better thiolized beers that I've had.

 

[TBA]

I know you aren't the only one in our club not a fan of the thiolized beers . Though Anthony had one over the weekend that was more balanced, and one of the better thiolized beers that I've had.

Any idea what they did to balance it? What hops or where in the process they used them?

 

[BrewMan13]

Any idea what they did to balance it? What hops or where in the process they used them?

Part of it was the specific strain...sorry I don't recall the name, but it was one that was only "slightly" thiolized, not like the 200x one. That, and giving it some time to age for a little bit for everything to come together.

 

[Apmarand]

Part of it was the specific strain...sorry I don't recall the name, but it was one that was only "slightly" thiolized, not like the 200x one. That, and giving it some time to age for a little bit for everything to come together.

Sounds like Cosmic Punch. My packet of Helio Gazer came inflated and reeked if sulfur. I made a starter and let it ferment out a little longer than usual. This plus waiting until the last second to pressurize prior to dry hopping gave good results for me.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Might I gently suggest the thiolising yeast are best discussed in a separate thread, not least because they're fairly irrelevant in large parts of the world as they are illegal.

There's a fairly well established thread on Cosmic Punch, but I've just posted there about the new non-gene-edited WLP077 Tropicale blend from White Labs which is the result of their screen for beta lyase activity. They've also published a chart of their screen, which makes me think that WLP077 must contain a lager yeast which is one of the best strains for releasing thiols....

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...y-omega-yeast-labs.696483/page-3#post-9339656

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I have very good o2 control and I have still added ascorbic acid, I did it during late dry hop. I can say that I brew 15 gallon batches so 3 kegs from each, and the end of the 3rd keg is as good as the first. Is that because of the ascorbic acid? I donno, suppose I'd have to skip it on my next batch and see, however it definitely did not hurt.

 

[BeerFst]

I have very good o2 control and I have still added ascorbic acid, I did it during late dry hop. I can say that I brew 15 gallon batches so 3 kegs from each, and the end of the 3rd keg is as good as the first. Is that because of the ascorbic acid? I donno, suppose I'd have to skip it on my next batch and see, however it definitely did not hurt.

I assume you are just using the powdered version? do you dissolve it ahead of time or just as powder with the dry hops? what's your dose per gallon?

 

[wepeeler]

I have very good o2 control and I have still added ascorbic acid, I did it during late dry hop. I can say that I brew 15 gallon batches so 3 kegs from each, and the end of the 3rd keg is as good as the first. Is that because of the ascorbic acid? I donno, suppose I'd have to skip it on my next batch and see, however it definitely did not hurt.

I assume you are just using the powdered version? do you dissolve it ahead of time or just as powder with the dry hops? what's your dose per gallon?

I add 1 tablespoon of ascorbic acid powder to all my kegs before racking, and I swear it makes a difference, especially my hoppy beers. My beer appears to be brighter for longer. Even if it's anecdotal, it's cheap enough to continue to use it.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Yeah I just add the powder with my dry hops, and about 1 tbsp per 5 gallon. I rouse my dryhops a few times with co2 in my conical so I figured it gets mixed in well.