New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[tld6008]

Hi all,

Apologies if this has been discussed or if there’s another thread on the topic:

For those of you kegging, what is your preferred method of carbonating for NEIPAs? I typically force carbonate either quickly by agitating the keg or over the course of 3 days at 30psi or so. I have a fully fermented beer that is dry hopping now. I’m considering using some gyle or krausen to increase softness and perhaps hop character(??). Is it worth the effort? I would need to brew a mini batch for this.

If I'm not in a hurry, which is about half the time, I add 2 oz of corn sugar to the keg and let it sit at room temp for 2 weeks. I like the results.

 

[RTE]

Thanks for the advice all. I think I’ll meet myself half way and test priming. Next time I will brew some extra wort for krausening.

 

[RTHP99]

For those who have or are adding lactose, how much are you adding for a 5 gallon batch, and when are you adding it? I see Dgallo is adding at day 4. By then my beer is already in the keg spunding

 

[couchsending]

The benefit to krausening is that you’re adding already fermenting beer so it takes a much shorter time for the main beer to carbonate.

 

[ba-brewer]

Another benefit is that can also clean up your beer some, I did it once to clean up a beer with bad diacetyl.

 

[Dgallo]

For those who have or are adding lactose, how much are you adding for a 5 gallon batch, and when are you adding it? I see Dgallo is adding at day 4. By then my beer is already in the keg spunding

You can add your lactose at any point since it is unfermentalble. Some people even add it to the keg and rack ontop of it. I only chose to add it on day 4 since that was when I was adding the fruit and wanted to minimize opportunities for oxygen contact.

Now to your question about how much. I will never add lactose to a traditional IPA or typical NEIPA; It is unneeded since you can gain sweetness and body through mash temps, specialty grains, and hoping schedule. However if your making a milkstout or desert/milkshake ipa than start at a half pound and work your way up. Since it’s unfermentable, if the half lb isn’t enough to your desired taste you can add more to the keg. If you are still bottling, you can do it all to taste in your bottling bucket the first time, just know this will expose the beer to oxygen this way.

 

[RTHP99]

I picked up some Dream Wave Fluctuation this weekend(equilibrium/Other Half), and it’s the best Neipa I’ve ever had. I know they use lactose in it, and OH likes to go heavy on the oats . So I’d like to experiment a bit with adding lactose and bumping up the oats

 

[Dgallo]

I picked up some Dream Wave Fluctuation this weekend(equilibrium/Other Half), and it’s the best Neipa I’ve ever had. I know they use lactose in it, and OH likes to go heavy on the oats . So I’d like to experiment a bit with adding lactose and bumping up the oats

Dream wave is part of OH’s oat cream ipa series so they def are using lactose in it. I bet it’s something like 75 % 2row 15% oats 5% honey malt 5% lactose. Maybe even slightly higher on the lactose

 

[beervoid]

Dream wave is part of OH’s oat cream ipa series so they def are using lactose in it. I bet it’s something like 75 % 2row 15% oats 5% honey malt 5% lactose. Maybe even slightly higher on the lactose

I found colab beer descriptions from Other Half with up to almost 50% of Oats...

 

[Dgallo]

I found colab beer descriptions from Other Half with up to almost 50% of Oats...

That sounds absurd to me and like a mash nightmare. But equilibrium knows there stuff and are pretty open about their process so if they said it, it’s true

 

[couchsending]

They’re most likely using malted oats or a combo of malted and flaked. You can use higher percentages of oats when using malted. They’re somewhat of a pain to mill and sometimes a little harder to find.

 

[beervoid]

They’re most likely using malted oats or a combo of malted and flaked. You can use higher percentages of oats when using malted. They’re somewhat of a pain to mill and sometimes a little harder to find.

That was my thoughts as well, malted oats most part but still 50% is ridiculously high and these guys are masters at marketing.
Just like some breweries claim to dry hop with 6 pounds per barrel... I really wonder how much of this is true and how much is just marketing.

 

[leesmith]

The benefit to krausening is that you’re adding already fermenting beer so it takes a much shorter time for the main beer to carbonate.

Your already practicing patience with your beer...lagering/conditioning. Clearing.

People rush...8-10 days grain to glass and so on.

 

[couchsending]

Your already practicing patience with your beer...lagering/conditioning. Clearing.

People rush...8-10 days grain to glass and so on.

Yes but I’d rather only have it sitting at room temp to carbonate for 5-7 days instead of 14 when priming.

 

[pittbrewing]

That was my thoughts as well, malted oats most part but still 50% is ridiculously high and these guys are masters at marketing.
Just like some breweries claim to dry hop with 6 pounds per barrel... I really wonder how much of this is true and how much is just marketing.

I don't think its that unrealistic.. My last neipa I dry hopped with 10 ounces for a 5 gal batch. 6 pounds in a barrel is just slightly more oz/gal then mine. (mine is 2 oz/gal, that is 2.2 oz/gal)
It is a straight fruit bomb. Other homebrewers/craft beer drinkers think I put fruit in it. There may be a few outliers that lie (pun intended) about dry hopping, but there are some super dry hopped beers I've drank lately. Especially from local breweries.

That being said, it is overkill IMO and I will tone it down a bit next time, but it is delicious none the less

 

[pittbrewing]

Yes but I’d rather only have it sitting at room temp to carbonate for 5-7 days instead of 14 when priming.

Time is definitely of the essence. A friend brewed and had to bottle.. tried one at a week and it had turned a nasty purple-brown. Makes me think that this style isn't really worth bottling considering what a batch costs (at least in my case)

 

[Dgallo]

I don't think its that unrealistic.. My last neipa I dry hopped with 10 ounces for a 5 gal batch. 6 pounds in a barrel is just slightly more oz/gal then mine. (mine is 2 oz/gal, that is 2.2 oz/gal)
It is a straight fruit bomb. Other homebrewers/craft beer drinkers think I put fruit in it. There may be a few outliers that lie (pun intended) about dry hopping, but there are some super dry hopped beers I've drank lately. Especially from local breweries.

That being said, it is overkill IMO and I will tone it down a bit next time, but it is delicious none the less

you’re also not trying to make a living, pay a lease or mortgage on a commercial property, and keep the lights on by selling pints lol

 

[Dgallo]

Time is definitely of the essence. A friend brewed and had to bottle.. tried one at a week and it had turned a nasty purple-brown. Makes me think that this style isn't really worth bottling considering what a batch costs (at least in my case)

They’re talking about natural carbing kegs with krausen or priming sugar verse force carbing

 

[pittbrewing]

you’re also not trying to make a living, pay a lease or mortgage on a commercial property, and keep the lights on by selling pints lol

Being that it says you're from albany, Im sure you have tried Foreign Objects? Some of their beers are a good example of what I mean. But it definitely applies to more local breweries near me. (Hitchhikers, Dancing Gnome, Eleventh Hour if you have an untappd)

 

[isomerization]

You can add your lactose at any point since it is unfermentalble. Some people even add it to the keg and rack ontop of it. I only chose to add it on day 4 since that was when I was adding the fruit and wanted to minimize opportunities for oxygen contact.

Now to your question about how much. I will never add lactose to a traditional IPA or typical NEIPA; It is unneeded since you can gain sweetness and body through mash temps, specialty grains, and hoping schedule. However if your making a milkstout or desert/milkshake ipa than start at a half pound and work your way up. Since it’s unfermentable, if the half lb isn’t enough to your desired taste you can add more to the keg. If you are still bottling, you can do it all to taste in your bottling bucket the first time, just know this will expose the beer to oxygen this way.

Specific reason not to add the Lactose at flameout? I’ve done that with my milkshake IPAs to (seemingly) no ill effects.

 

[beervoid]

I don't think its that unrealistic.. My last neipa I dry hopped with 10 ounces for a 5 gal batch. 6 pounds in a barrel is just slightly more oz/gal then mine. (mine is 2 oz/gal, that is 2.2 oz/gal)
It is a straight fruit bomb. Other homebrewers/craft beer drinkers think I put fruit in it. There may be a few outliers that lie (pun intended) about dry hopping, but there are some super dry hopped beers I've drank lately. Especially from local breweries.

That being said, it is overkill IMO and I will tone it down a bit next time, but it is delicious none the less

6 pounds per barrel is almost 16oz in 5 gallons.
10oz in 5 gallons is about 4 pounds per barrel, from my experiments this is absolute borderline where you dont really taste a difference.
Commercial brewers aren't throwing money and hops away I hope.

 

[Dgallo]

Specific reason not to add the Lactose at flameout? I’ve done that with my milkshake IPAs to (seemingly) no ill effects.

No in theory there’s no reason not to add it at flame out because it’s not like it’s going to floc out or be converted to anything else during fermentation so it should have the same effect as being added post fermentation. I just personally like to get through the main portion of active fermentation before I add it.

 

[isomerization]

No in theory there’s no reason not to add it at flame out because it’s not like it’s going to floc out or be converted to anything else during fermentation so it should have the same effect as being added post fermentation. I just personally like to get through the main portion of active fermentation before I add it.

I’ve always viewed it as “neutral” to Sacc yeast, but now I wonder if there would be a difference between the approaches. Lower O2 exposure and risk of contamination by adding during the boil was my logic.

 

[Dgallo]

I’ve always viewed it as “neutral” to Sacc yeast, but now I wonder if there would be a difference between the approaches. Lower O2 exposure and risk of contamination by adding during the boil was my logic.

I could be doing that for no good reason at all but to me the fermentation and the desired ester profile during active fermentation are far too important so I just want to ensure that happens

 

[NickC]

Long time lurker, first time poster here. First off, thank you braufessor and many, many, MANY others in this thread for your contributions. It’s helped me expedite my learning curve in attempting to perfect this style.

I think I along with many have ditched the must-do biotransformation dry hop (although this may still be occurring from the whirlpool hops), but I’m struggling on what is the perfect timing for the single dry hop bomb. On this batch, I’m doing 6 oz on day 5 (4 gal batch), but I’ve tried day 0, day 2, day 3, day 7...

Does anyone have a go-to dry hop day that consistently produces great aroma/juice? I’ve seen so many different opinions that claim they nailed the juice bomb, so does which day really matter? I know brau’s latest says day 2-3, but that didn’t work for me last time. Seemed like fermentation may have burned off too much aroma/flavor (just my theory).

I’m only about 10-12 batches in, but I’m also thinking the quality of hops is huge for this style and stale hops may have caused poor results in my past batches.

Other info:

BIAB 4 gal batches

Always ferment with 1318 at 64 day 0-1, 66 day 2-4, 68 thereafter.

1 tsp CaCl, 0.5 tsp Gypsum adds to mash

Using 4 oz in whirlpool

Using NEIPA hops - citra, galaxy, Ella, Vic secret, el dorado, Amarillo, Strata etc...

 

[isomerization]

@NickC you shouldn’t think in terms of days, that means nothing to the yeast. Instead, shoot for the tail end of fermentation. This will be strain/process dependent, so a universal Day 2 (or 4 or 6) option doesn’t really exist.

If you have the ability to cold crash under pressure/gas, then the variables change, FYI.

 

[Dgallo]

Long time lurker, first time poster here. First off, thank you braufessor and many, many, MANY others in this thread for your contributions. It’s helped me expedite my learning curve in attempting to perfect this style.

I think I along with many have ditched the must-do biotransformation dry hop (although this may still be occurring from the whirlpool hops), but I’m struggling on what is the perfect timing for the single dry hop bomb. On this batch, I’m doing 6 oz on day 5 (4 gal batch), but I’ve tried day 0, day 2, day 3, day 7...

Does anyone have a go-to dry hop day that consistently produces great aroma/juice? I’ve seen so many different opinions that claim they nailed the juice bomb, so does which day really matter? I know brau’s latest says day 2-3, but that didn’t work for me last time. Seemed like fermentation may have burned off too much aroma/flavor (just my theory).

I’m only about 10-12 batches in, but I’m also thinking the quality of hops is huge for this style and stale hops may have caused poor results in my past batches.

Other info:

BIAB 4 gal batches

Always ferment with 1318 at 64 day 0-1, 66 day 2-4, 68 thereafter.

1 tsp CaCl, 0.5 tsp Gypsum adds to mash

Using 4 oz in whirlpool

Using NEIPA hops - citra, galaxy, Ella, Vic secret, el dorado, Amarillo, Strata etc...

Check out this link. Very interesting evidence based info on hop oil extraction that shows almost all dryhop specific Oils are extracted in the first 24 hours and that leaving hops in For longer than 4 days can actual cause a diminished return effect. http://scottjanish.com/hops-understanding-blends-oil-testing/

 

[NickC]

@NickC you shouldn’t think in terms of days, that means nothing to the yeast. Instead, shoot for the tail end of fermentation. This will be strain/process dependent, so a universal Day 2 (or 4 or 6) option doesn’t really exist.

If you have the ability to cold crash under pressure/gas, then the variables change, FYI.

Thanks. Tail end meaning 2 points remaining or 10? I ferment in corny kegs, so I can cold crash under pressure. What’s that supposed to do?

 

[NickC]

Check out this link. Very interesting evidence based info on hop oil extraction that shows almost all dryhop specific Oils are extracted in the first 24 hours and that leaving hops in For longer than 4 days can actual cause a diminished return effect. http://scottjanish.com/hops-understanding-blends-oil-testing/
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Hmm... I’ll try to use this intel on my current batch. Wait for tail end of fermentation (as mentioned by isomerization above, and WeldWorks and others), add dry hop, allow a couple days to get to FG, then allow a couple days for diacetyl rest... Then jump to serving keg off the dry hop.

Is this close to your approach @Dgallo ? Anyone else?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Check out this link. Very interesting evidence based info on hop oil extraction that shows almost all dryhop specific Oils are extracted in the first 24 hours and that leaving hops in For longer than 4 days can actual cause a diminished return effect.

I'd be bit cautious on that front - they're measuring the things that are easy to measure, which are the very smallest molecules. It seems that the bigger molecules take a bit longer to come out - anecdotally 48-72 hours seems to be needed to get the full flavour effect.