Noob wanting to brew a sour!!! I GOT ??S

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nasty31

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Ok so ive made 4 batches of homebrew all extract or partial mash. I now want to make a sour because its my second favorite style. I need some help tho. Here is a recipe i came up with to make a light pale to then sour was wondering if this would work, and if itd turn out really tart/sour.

4lbs Carapils
2lb German pilsener
2lbs Torrified Wheat
3lbs Corn sugar
1lbs Light Dme

10z Styrian Goldings

Belgian Yeast
Wyeast Lacto 5335
Wyeast Pedio 5733

Will this work? Do i need to add anything? More ingredients?
feel free to add or change stuff around thanks.!!!!!
 
If you think you are ready, go for it. Just remember that any plastic/vinyl equipment should NEVER be used again for anything but sour beers!
 
will it work? someone told me that the belgian yeast will eat all the torrified wheat leaving nothing for the lacto pedio and brett to eat. Also after transfering after fermentation do i add the lacto pedio and brett in all at once? i did want to add some cherry puree at the end also
 
Sorry, I have no idea about the sours.

I have read that the bacteria that sours the beer will infect all your plastics though.
 
I suggest starting over and looking at some established or proven recipes and start there. There are plenty of threads on sours if you search.
 
I don't think you should be trying this so early in your career. If you insist, here's my recipe:

10 lbs pils
2 lbs munich
1 oz EKG
mash @149
used dregs from Jolly Pumpkin and Russian River along with WLP530
 
I would recommend you not exceed 10% of the grain bill with Carapils. Are you trying to make a West Flanders Red or a p-Lambic? Either way, you want some unfermentable sugars present for the bacteria to feed on. It looks like you're going al grain on this, so you can make it simple. I would use 3 lbs of pilsener and 2 lbs of flaked wheat with 8-12 oz of Carapils if you like. You can add a couple of pounds of light DME depending on your target starting gravity. The corn sugar isn't really going to help you, in my opinion. Mash high- about 158. Split the hops, 1/2 oz at 60 and 1/2 at 30 minutes to keep IBU's down.

You can save a few bucks by buying Wyeast 3268 or 3273- they contain belgian yeast and pedio and lacto, with some brettanomyces yeast. Unless you are avoiding the Brett for some reason. Brew it, ferment it, and sit back and wait a year. Or two years.
 
4 pounds of carapils??

What bomber meant to say: Carapils is not normally as fermentable as basic pale malt or pilsner malt. So it normally leaves a lot of unfermentable sugars, or dextrines, in the beer, which then adds body and sweetness and head retention (that's why this grain is also called "dextrine" malt).

I said "normally" above because I believe the bacteria that you are going to add will ferment these dextrines just fine, so it will work fine. I think. I'd replace this grain with pilsner malt or pale malt anyway. Because...

... if you are mashing, you need the majority of your grain to contain the enzymes necessary to convert unfermentable starches to fermentable sugars. Carapils has no enzymes (they've been de-natured in the kilning process). You can see this in a list of grains by looking at the "diastatic power", which will be zero for Carapils.
 
Ok so ive made 4 batches of homebrew all extract or partial mash. I now want to make a sour because its my second favorite style. I need some help tho. Here is a recipe i came up with to make a light pale to then sour was wondering if this would work, and if itd turn out really tart/sour.

4lbs Carapils
2lb German pilsener
2lbs Torrified Wheat
3lbs Corn sugar
1lbs Light Dme

10z Styrian Goldings

Belgian Yeast
Wyeast Lacto 5335
Wyeast Pedio 5733

Will this work? Do i need to add anything? More ingredients?
feel free to add or change stuff around thanks.!!!!!

My comments (some similar to what others have written).

- An 8 lb partial mash is quite large. Are you OK doing that.
- 4 lbs carapils is way too much. Go with 4 lbs 2-row or pilsner instead.
- Mash high (mid to high 150s).
- Recipe as written will be somewhere around 1.075. Lacto and Pedio stop somewhere around 8% abv, so may not even get started after the Belgian yeast and Brett get done with it. Lower the OG down to around 1.055.
- The corn sugar is doing nothing except drying the beer out, leaving less for the bugs. Eliminate it and you will probably be down around 1.055.
- There is no Brett in your recipe. I assume it is an oversight.
- Use a mixed yeast from White Labs or Wyeast.
- Toss some commercial dregs in the fermenter.
- Keep bittering low. Down in the range of 10 IBUs.
- Get a carboy to ferment in. This beer will take about a year.
- Add any fruit after at least 8 months, and leave for an additional 6 months.

Good luck.
 
20A. Lambic And Belgian Sour Ale, Straight (Unblended) Lambic-Style Extract
Color

Stats
OG 1.051
FG 1.013
IBU 11
ABV 4.9 %
SRM 3
Specifics
Boil Volume 1.5 gallons
Batch Size 5 gallons
Yeast 75% AA
Style Comparison
Low High
OG 1.044 1.051 1.056
FG 1.006 1.013 1.012
IBU 10 11 15
SRM 4 3 15
ABV 4.7 4.9 5.8
Fermentables
% Weight Weight (lbs) Grain Gravity Points Color
44.4 % 4.00 American Two-row Pale 22.2 1.4
22.2 % 2.00 German Pilsener 11.4 0.6
22.2 % 2.00 Torrified Wheat 10.8 0.8
11.1 % 1.00 Light Dry Malt Extract 6.8 0.4
9.00 51.1
Hops
% Wt Weight (oz) Hop Form AA% AAU Boil Time Utilization IBU
50.0 % 0.50 Styrian Goldings Pellet 5.5 2.8 30 0.021 5.7
50.0 % 0.50 Styrian Goldings Pellet 5.5 2.8 30 0.021 5.7
1.00 11.3
 
Looks better to me.

- Why have 2 hop additions at the same time?

- Recipe says 1.5 gallon boil volume. If you mash 8 lbs of grain, you are going to have a bigger volume than that.

- No note on the yeast.
 
I use a lot of Styrian Goldings in my sours and Saisons. They usually run between 3.7 and 4.5% alpha acid. Some brewing software defaults at 5.5% for Styrian Goldings- just change the alpha acid % to match that of the hops you have. Great noble hop!

Brew lots of other beers so you don't fiddle with this more than every two or three months. Brew another sour in six months- you'll be glad you did. Read about the pellicle and ropiness you will encounter, so you don't get too freaked out.

And enjoy!
 
Just sending a shout out ;) I would actually be interested to see if bugs could ferment a bunch of crystal malt to dryness
 
yeah, and if your going to pitch pedio you pretty much have to also pitch brett to consume all the diacetyl that the pedio will produce. also... i think keeping the sugar at ten percent max of the fermentables is usually a good thing.
 
Ok last question and I appreciate all ur guys help. I have a way better grasp on this now. Do i need all three pedo lacto and brett? Or could i get away with lacto an brett? Also should i pitch those two together and before the Belgian test? Or do I pitch the Belgian wait ten days the rack to secondary pitch the lacto wait two weeks then transfter to carboy and pitch the brett? Basically i wanna know pitching details thanks
 
You can use lacto only with brett, and depending on the strain of lacto you should keep IBUs around 10 or less. Pedio needs to have brett. You can brew a sour with out brett just using sacch but pedio spits out diacetyl that the brett will metabolize and reduce.
 
Ok last question and I appreciate all ur guys help. I have a way better grasp on this now. Do i need all three pedo lacto and brett? Or could i get away with lacto an brett? Also should i pitch those two together and before the Belgian test? Or do I pitch the Belgian wait ten days the rack to secondary pitch the lacto wait two weeks then transfter to carboy and pitch the brett? Basically i wanna know pitching details thanks

If you ferment with an ale yeast, and then add lacto youll get next to no sourness. I would suggest just buying a roeselare smack pack. It has sacch, pedio, brett, lacto, etc, etc. basically its everything you need to add. Add this from the start to make sure you actually get a good deal of sourness in your beer
 
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