Noob paranoia after all these years.

[RSpike25]

I've brewed a few dozen batches of beer over the last several years, and I still am just as pessimistic and paranoid as I always was. Part of it is from having a brewing partner who is as anal as I am and we compound each other’s anxiety with an over-cautious and meticulous methodology. The reason I think I'm still paranoid is that pretty much all of the batches of beers we've made from extract to all-grain have had a "taste". The extracts had their own specific recurring "taste," and the all-grains now have had a "taste." Tastes that are described in 'Brew Chem 101' and on-line sources to be results of mistakes or wrong doing. We've always been extremely conscious about sanitizing—everything all-the time. We've made many different beers in many different ways: filtered water, treated water, different equipment, and different ways of going about everything, yeast starting, fermentation habits, the rate and length of boil, different mashing/sparging approaches. Yet they've all had a similar off flavor or just an off flavor; they've been fine and some good, but usually never what I expect. And there are seemingly no common denominators beyond our habitual meticulousness.

Are we just too anal we're messing up the beer in a consistent way because of our habits? Or will our home-brew never taste like craft brew. Does home brew always have a "taste"? Am I just too harsh, my expectations too high? Because I like beer a lot and have had hundreds of different kinds of beer and those beers never (with the exception of maybe a couple) taste like ours. We always joke and lament over the fact that between the brewing books and on-line opinions there is very little consistency in the details and every time we go to brew one of us has read something that convinces us we did it wrong last time or we need to change how were doing it.

Should I just not be brewing?

Does anyone have any insight in to my problem? Because I think the noobs don’t want to become perpetual noobs like me.

 

[beersk]

Of course you shouldn't not be brewing. You say it's filtered water, but is it really? You might still have traces of chlorine in your water. You didn't give details about what your process is, what your equipment is, how long you ferment and at what temps, how much yeast you typically pitch...
These are all important things. Fermentation temperature is crucial to clean tasting beer.

 

[BreezyBrew]

I obsess over everything. If it's not world class, it's sh*t to me. How much reading have you done? I highly suggest, the water, hops and yeast book (3 different books) along with the IPA book, brewing better Beer, and brewing classic styles. Maybe Palmer for off flavors. I Crack one of them every day... I've probably read them all 3 times. You digest these books along with this forum, and there will be nothing that can stop you.

 

[garcia]

Rdwhahb

 

[Clonefan94]

Have you ever tried using RO water from the store to brew with? That would be an easy first step to be able to rule out your water.

After that, I'd look into fermentation temps. Then move on from there. The key is to only change one thing at a time. That way you can judge weather or not that change affected the beer.

 

[SeeMont]

Okay, take a deep breath and relax, open a bottled beer you bought and enjoy. Was talking to an old timer (over 80 years old) after I shared a home brew with him. He enjoyed it even if I could be critical of it. He talked about the old brewerys before it was illegal. They were in every town and community. The beer was drank and enjoyed, there were no modern sanitizers and clean rooms. This old timer said it was good, Better than mine. I was shocked.
Enjoy the process, enjoy the product, Share with others cause they will enjoy it adn not be near as critical. We are all our worst critics so accept that. But in the end, if it is causing you more stress than enjoyment, don't do it, life is to short.

 

[morticaixavier]

There is no reason your homebrew can't taste as good or better than craft brew. describe some of the 'off flavors' you are talking about.

a few things that have helped me are:

recipes - simplify! rarely do you need more than 2 or 3 different grains/sugars or 2-3 different hops. There are of course exceptions but overly complex recipes are one of the big things that can make otherwise totally good beer taste meh.

Quality of ingredients - find a good supplier of ingredients that has high enough turnover to ensure you are getting fresh and properly handled ingredients.

Yeast management - Are you really using enough? small starters or high gravity starters are not as useful as you might think and it's possible you are not using the cell counts you expect. this can cause a host of issues from too many esters to not enough yeast character to under attenuation and risk of infection.

Temperature management - I try to hold off pitching until the wort is ~ 64 (for ales) or 45 (for lagers) and maintain a fermentation temp in that area until at least three days have passed then bump it up a few degrees to finish.

Time management - remember, you make wort the yeast make beer. give them time to finish their job and clean up after themselves. Pros have fancy tools that help them make this happen quicker (pressurized fermenters allow a higher fermentation temp and thus quicker turn around)

Product management - so now it's really truly done. be careful when packaging, keep it away from o2 as much as possible. make sure you give it the right about of priming sugar and enough time at the correct temps to finish the job of carbonating.


well there are a few ideas.

 

[RSpike25]

I think you're (all who mentioned it) right about the ferment temps. Our current batch, I put a lot more emphasis into the starter, and pitching/ferment temps than I feel like I have--(it's been a while since the last time I brewed). I took a reading after a week and tasted it and it has a bit of the diacetyl taste which a lot of our beers have had (primarily the extract ones), so I'm hoping if I leave this one alone for longer it may have a better chance of cleaning-up. I always remember reading scary things about leaving your beer in the primary, so we usually got it out quickly and never seemed to get good F.G.'s. Now I read, leave it in there as long as you want; it seems to me too much of the advise is just opinion that isn't consistent and that can be confounding for casual brewers who don't want to put themselves through a home degree of brewing science.
Aside from the diacetyl beers, some have been sourish but mostly since we've been doing all-grain it's been a phenolic taste (which I contribute to poor mash/sparge technique though we seem to do it different every time) or some combination of the 3.

I'm not concerned about our water, we brew in Portland and I take good care with the water, and yes I've used store bought water some of the time.

We've had a lot of beers that were maybe not diacetyl but more of a consistent strong caramel (like butterscotch but more caramel) that was NOT desired, and we argue about the boil, I feel like the harder-hotter you boil the more caramelly it's going to get or am I completely wrong about that?

A couple more things that may give insight to the things we've done habitually to create consistent undesired results:

Our beer has never had head, and if it has, there has never been any retention. And we've even changed our technique just to try to get head

We've made recipes that had more hops than similar recipes yet our beers are never really that bitter or hoppy, which takes me back to the high F.G.'s, we don't ferment long enough probably and our beers end up being sweeter and I think we usually ferment too warm, so that combination of still having unfermented sugar and fermentation temps that lean toward a malty profile and not the cleaner hop forward profile of a lower ferment temp. Like I know

Thank You all for you time and support!...

...I'm actually moving, and will be taking a hiatus from brewing for a while, but I plan to come back with a vengeance. Investing in higher quality level brewing equipment and work towards that brewing science degree

It shows how busy or preoccupied with my priorities I am that in 8yrs on and off brewing these are first real posts I've made, and as you can see I've been a member here since 2009.

 

[619Brewer]

My very first batch was an extract batch like most folks and it had a strong caramel flavor to it. That was my first and last extract batch. I later found out that it was a common trait to extract brew depending on the recipe. I've never had one taste like that since I switched to all grain.

 

[Trox]

Are you adding all of the extract at the beginning of your boil? If so are you removing the pot from the heat source prior to adding it? Also are you constantly stirring while you add it? Are you using LME, DME, or both?

Strong caramel taste sounds like your extract is cooking a bit before it gets fully mixed in. What I generally do is add about 1/3 of my extract at the beginning of the boil, and then add the rest at about 10 mins left or flameout (unless I'm looking for a bit of a caramel taste). And when adding your extract be sure to remove it from the heat source and fully mix it in before putting it back on the heat.

 

[butterpants]

You can make good extract beers. I've won gold medals with extract brewing. Granted I do enjoy the flexibility you can apply to AG and only under time constraints do i make extract brews anymore...

Look at your conundrum as an experiment. You need to alter one variable at a time otherwise you'll never be able to decipher the brewing flaw.

Also, go get an advanced brewer who makes solid stuff and pander, coax or bribe him to attend one of your brew days. You need another set of eyes there, free of the paradigms from your normal brewing.

I personally started making great instead of good beer when :

1) Went to RO water
2) Temp controlled fermentation 3) Stirplate yeast starters
4) Oxygenation pre pitch


Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Home Brew mobile app

 

[RSpike25]

We haven't made extract brews in a long time, and we still seem to get a caramel thing from time to time.
Of the 4 four things butterpants listed the ferment temps being controlled in a cooler range and good oxygenation are the main things we hadn't been doing before this current batch, I hope it turns out better than the rest.

 

[butterpants]

Those are two biggies.... bad thing is they can be expensive to implement. Worth it tho.

Good luck!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Home Brew mobile app

 

[morticaixavier]

It sounds like you would benefit from reading up on water chemistry and how it affects not only the mash but also the final flavour of the beer. The mash has certain requirements in order to work as we want but mostly these come down to ~50 ppm calcium (but that is not hard and fast) and proper pH. Mash temp can affect how a beer tastes because of how well the wort will attenuate.

You mention poor hop expressions and it is possible that poor attenuation is part of this but also water chemistry. A little extra sulfate can really bring out the dry character of a beer and make the hops pop a lot more. you can experiement with some beer you have already brewed by disolving a teaspoon of gypsum in an ounce of boiled water and adding drops to your glass. it will dissolve easily and you can learn a lot about what this does to the flavor of your beer without making batch after batch.

caramel flavor could well be diacetyl and if you are removing your beer from the yeast too soon this could well be the problem. you can also choose different yeast that are less prone to diacetyl.

Head retention problems and high ferm temps go together all the time. the higher molecular weight alcohols produced at higher temps act just like oil and will prevent head formation and degrade retention badly.

so there you go. try getting that pitch temp down, keeping the ferm temp down and pitching plenty of clean neutral yeast (try us-05 for a while just to take that out of the equation. 1 packet is great for 5 gallons of beer up to ~1.050 just sprinkled on top, re-hydrate in warm water if you wish)

keep the recipe simple, 10 lbs base malt (North American 2 row is great), 1 lb medium crystal (40-60l) and enough hops at First Wort hop (added to the kettle before you run wort off the mash) to get you your desired IBU with a big dose (2-4 ounces) at flamout for aroma.