No head on my Stout

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Ameritoon

Ameritoon

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Greetings all - I brewed a Dry Irish Stout (from Norther Brewer) using the Specialty grains on 3rd May, left it in the primary for 15 days, used a secondary for 7 bottling on 25 May, using Fizz drops to prime my Grolsch bottles. I put a couple in the frig on 4 June, and tried one that Saturday. There was no head, but there was carbonation to the tongue yet visually the beer appeared flat. So I waited until today - putting another few in the frig on 10 June. Poured another out today and got the same result... no head, but carbonation to the tongue.

Do I need to wait another week for it to come good?

I will say that is has a nice flavor...

Thanks for any and all feedback...
 
I attached an image - hopefully that'll show something?

stout.jpg
 
I went right to keg (never bottled) but out of curiosity, what was your O.G. and F.G.? Was there enough sugars to carbonate? Did you add priming sugar? Again, I'm not an expert on bottling but......

Of topic a bit but I give all you bottlers a lot of credit. Its just SO much work and it would seem to me that the Co2 level from batch to batch may vary a lot depending on the O.G. & F.G. When you keg, the carbonation is always the same. Like more (Belgians), turn it up, like less (stouts), turn it down.
 
Sadly - I didn't have my hydrometer at the time, but I did prime using Fizz drops HERE. I can "taste" carbonation - just not really see it. There's certainly a decent ABV in this. Just not the head I was expecting.

As for the bottling - I have a decent system. Me and my youngest tag-team it... He loves to help me when I brew.
 
It just sounds like not enough sugar (which is really all those tablets are) in the bottle to fully carbonate it. Stouts a low carbonated beer by style but should have a head on it. Experiment and add more to one bottle and see if it gets more carbonated.
 
What temperature have you kept the bottles at? Ideally you want 70 degrees or even a bit higher. Flip the bottles over to mix the yeast and sugars again, and give them another week or two at plus 70 degrees..
 
Should I open them and add sugars?
I kept them at about 74-75 - in one of my back rooms.
I can definitely give them a shake... I'll probably drink the other 2 I have in the frig - small sacrifice!
 
I'll agree and say that with the info you've provided it seems there wasn't enough sugar to carb the beer fully.
I"ve never used the carbonation tablets/drops because I just don't trust them. When I bottle I just use regular table sugar and use a homebrew calculator and use the sucrose column to prime my beer. It always turns out fine.

Since it sounds like you're using flip-top bottles you can probably re-prime your beer easily and let it sit for another 3 weeks. Or you can choke these down since it sounds drinkable and try a different approach next batch.
 
Since nobody mentioned it yet, I'll throw in the question about the quality of your rubber seals on your flip tops. I use sugar myself as I know then exactly what I'm putting into the beer but if the fizz drops are not the problem, perhaps your seals are letting out the CO2 ever so slightly.
 
I think the seals are fine - it has to be the sugar. I have a Red Ale that's just barely ready as well (5 weeks). And they are in the same situation - carbonation to the tongue but no head. I guess I'll pop them all and add a bit more sugar. Any suggestions as to how much? 1/4 tsp? 1/2 tsp - these are 15.5 Grolsch bottles...
 
Aha, 15.5 oz bottles is the problem! If I recall, its one sugar drop per 12 oz beer, and two drops for a 22 oz beer, so lack of sugar makes sense if you only used one drop per 15.5 oz beer, which is 30% low (10% of 12 oz is 1.2 oz x 3= 3.6 oz +12 oz= 15.6 oz). It will be difficult to predict how much more to add, because some carbonation will come out when you open them, and you will have to figure out how much to compensate for...
 
Cool that may solve a big one for me. I had switched to the fizz drops because i was getting inconsistent carbonation. Some would be great some similar to what i have now.
My best guess would be a 1/4tsp, since a full 15.5 should require. 75tsp and one of those drops are about 1/2-ish.
 
A difference in tabs over 3 oz likely isn't enough to give you absolutely zero head on your beer. You are talking 1/4 of a tab.

The lack of it present in two style beers makes me think it's not a problem with the amount of sugars you are adding for carbonation. I understand you feel it on the tongue, but when you look at them (the Red perhaps), do you see any activity in the beer itself as far as bubbling? Maybe do a vigorous pour and see what happens. I could see perhaps no retention, but no head at all is a sign of it simply being flat.
 
I do see some bubbles in the Stout - the Red just might be too soon (lack of patience). I brewed that on 18 May... Wow - I didn't even look at the dates before trying that one. I shouldn't have touched it.


So should I try adding a 1/4 tsp more sugar to the Stout? Or just accept it as, that's that?
 
What you're describing sounds familiar. This has happened to my last couple of batches, one primed with tablets, the other with mixed priming sugar, calculated. In my case, it seemed to be my bottle washing - I was using regular Oxy Clean on some older bottles and the rest were clean enough to just sanitize. Those latter had fine head, but the Oxy'd bottles did what you're showing. I've since learned that the regular, perfumed Oxy can leave a head-destroying film that's really hard to rinse.

Not sure if applicable, but something to consider.
 
That could be it. I use oxy-clean to give my bottles a decent soak before i sanitize. I probably don't really need to since i wash ready bottle immediately after use, store it upside down to drain.
 
So just no retention? Could be adjuncts or things added? Could be the way the glass was washed. Carapils will help with head retention, even if just a small amount.
 
I'm thinking its a cleanser issue -esp after seeing the second set of pics. Either with the glasses or with the bottles. There's carbonation and a head on a vigorous pour but something is killing it and my money is on the oxy clean.
 
Yeah, I'd ditch the oxy and just hot water rinse after use so nothing is left behind. Then just sanitize before bottling. Works for me.

I like doing flaked barley for head retention.
 
This could be a pH issue as well. I've had beers that were kegged exhibit zero head retention. I think maybe the pH gets too low, which, I believe, kills the head. Not sure why or what the deal is with that.
But it appears on your last photo the head retention is fine. I almost never have a beer, homebrewed or commercial, that keeps a super thick head till the end. It usually dissipates to a thin layer.
 
I'll chime in again since now its happened to me also. I made an oatmeal chocolate porter, bottled half and before bottling the second half I added some strong cold brewed coffee to the bottling bucket. So I've got 2 similar styles, one with coffee the other without. I'll add that I DID NOT cook my flaked oats before adding to the malted barley (now I know I should have, and wonder if thats the common denominator).
Both styles have a great head but disappear quickly. Tastes great just no head retention.
They've been in bottles for 4-5 weeks at 70F, fridge for a week and BOTH styles did the same as the pictures shown.
I do not use Oxy, just rinse and Starsan and have never had this happen before though this is my first porter.
 
Those carbonation bubbles in the picture are big meaning it needs more carbonation. I keg and that's what it looks like when the keg hasn't fully carbonated yet. I can pour it and lower the glass to create a head but the bubbles are big and dissipate quick. If you used a tablet meant for 12 oz and you have close to 16 oz in the bottle that's very much under-carbonated. 1/4 of a tablet for every 3 oz so you're over 20% under what it should be. That's a lot and more than enough to produce the results you're seeing.
 
Agreed. Tablets limit the bottle size and could very well be the OP's issue. I however added 3.9 oz of sugar boiled for a few minutes and cooled before adding to the bottling bucket prior to the beer and have the exact same issue.
Don't mean to hijack the thread, just thought it was very odd how I have the same issue though no similarities with the OP's batch that I can determine.
 
Saw the updates here and wanted to chime back in. Mike, I've heard about cooking oats before usage but have never done that and I've brewed oatmeal stout 3-4 times now and head retention has been good for me. I've attributed that, at least in part, to the oatmeal. Maybe I'm wrong but I can't think of a reason that pre cooking would do anything better than mashing. And I'll throw in that I haven't done a low temp protein rest with the oatmeal either. Everybody goes in the pool at single infusion mash temp.
 
BrewHound said:
Flaked barley needs to be mashed. Or at least an extended steep with some base malt to give enzymes time to work on it.
Click to expand...

I believe I steeped it without base malt a few times. I don't remember what other grains I used so maybe I had something with enzymes. I probably also held the steeping grains at temp for 30 minutes. It seemed to work, but a mash should improve the overall effect and get conversion. I'll have to revisit that recipe.
 
Start with one conclusive experiment to eliminate a variable:

1.) pour one beer as youve been doing.
2.) get another glass, identical if possible. Rinse extremely well, then rinse with star-san, and then cold water. Repeat if there's any film/soap residue whatsoever. Then pour another.

Two outcomes: If it forms a head, its your glassware. If it doesn't, its elsewhere in your process (and others here have identified several potential culprits.) At least this way you can rule out one component.
 
Ameritoon said:
Greetings all - I brewed a Dry Irish Stout (from Norther Brewer) using the Specialty grains on 3rd May, left it in the primary for 15 days, used a secondary for 7 bottling on 25 May, using Fizz drops to prime my Grolsch bottles. I put a couple in the frig on 4 June, and tried one that Saturday. There was no head, but there was carbonation to the tongue yet visually the beer appeared flat. So I waited until today - putting another few in the frig on 10 June. Poured another out today and got the same result... no head, but carbonation to the tongue.

Do I need to wait another week for it to come good?

I will say that is has a nice flavor...

Thanks for any and all feedback...
Click to expand...

So you bottled the 25th of May and then put a couple in the fridge on June 4th? That's only 10 days - most people recommend waiting 3 weeks for proper carbonation. When you put them in the fridge, you brought the yeast to a halt on increasing the carbonation.

What temperature are the bottles sitting at? 2-3 weeks is usually good for most beers if they are sitting above 70 degrees.

And what yeast did you use? I have noticed that the 2 times that I have used Wyeast's Irish Ale yeast, it took forever to carb (not sure why, but the bottles were sitting next to another batch that carbonated in less time just fine).

Now that it's been almost a month since bottling, I would try one that has been sitting outside of the fridge the whole time. Chill it for a day or two and give it a taste. If it still isn't where you want it, flip all of the remaining bottles on their heads and let them sit for a week or more. This will get the yeast stirred back up and hopefully kickstart them into doing their job.
 
BrewHound said:
Saw the updates here and wanted to chime back in. Mike, I've heard about cooking oats before usage but have never done that and I've brewed oatmeal stout 3-4 times now and head retention has been good for me. I've attributed that, at least in part, to the oatmeal. Maybe I'm wrong but I can't think of a reason that pre cooking would do anything better than mashing. And I'll throw in that I haven't done a low temp protein rest with the oatmeal either. Everybody goes in the pool at single infusion mash temp.
Click to expand...

Precooking is required (I'd have to do more reading to get my facts right) on some of the oats and not others ie old fashioned oats vs quick oats due the different processing and gelatization of each (I make up my own words but you know what I mean :) )
 

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