No fermentation activity after 32 hours

[ds0oc1]

I just put up two 1 gallon batches of hard cider. I used plain apple juice and added some brown sugar to get the OG up, around 1.060.

I went to the local brew shop and got two different types of yeast, Lalvin EC-1118 (5G) and Coopers brewing yeast (7G).

I assumed that these were for full 5 gallon batches so I only added 2G of the EC-1118 to one batch and around 3G of the copper to the other. It has been over 30 hours and I see no activity what so ever. All the while I have a batch of beer heavily fermenting that was brewed an hour after the cider.

Temperature is around 70 - 74.

Should I add the rest of the yeast? Should I just chill out and wait another 24 hours?

This is my first attempt at cider and only me second brew so this is all new to me!

Thanks

 

[Paps]

If your juice has preservatives in it, they would prevent fermentation.
I use Lalvin-ec1118 alot and it has consistantly started well before the 30 hour mark.On a side note if you are fermenting that warm you should do a diactyl rest.

 

[sweetcell]

good call on the preservatives.

On a side note if you are fermenting that warm you should do a diactyl rest.

that doesn't make any sense. you do a D-rest if you're fermenting cold, not warm.

 

[phug]

Take a bright flashlight and shine it through the top layer of the cider- to- be. Do you see any tiny bubbles rising at all?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[ManhattanProjectBrewing]

Uh huh… Cider issues; we have all had them. The temp is right but the juice may be lacking…well, juice (Meaning nutrients). Wort comes packed with a proverbial buffet of nutrients for the little guys to feast on while cider (Juice of any kind for that matter) does not contain enough nutrients for a healthy feast let alone a snack to tide ‘em over. I, as most, learned the hard way… As you are now. We all know processed foods contain no real nutrient value thus the lag time in fermentation. A simple solution would be to:

Hydrate 2.5 teaspoons Pectic Enzyme plus 6g FERM-O and/or 20g GOFERM and/or 3 teaspoons Yeast Nutrient then Aerate. At that point, and depending on fermentation health you can:

Ferment 4 Days @ 70 degrees F / Add 3 teaspoons Yeast Nutrient

….In the end you should drop to 1.000 or below for terminal gravity. Then you can back-sweeten, add acid blend or other acid addition for balance and even some tannin to balance all that is going on before kegging / bottling as usual. Hope this points you in the right direction.

P.S. However, even with all being said, if preservatives are present in the must (Cider) you’re not going anywhere… You’ll have to start over with juice that is free of preservatives.

Cheers,

-JM

 

[ds0oc1]

Thanks for all the suggestions folks!

I'll check my juice when I get home to verify whether or not preservatives are present.

Updates to come!!

 

[ds0oc1]

Okay... so my batch with the coopers yeast has taken off but the EC-1118 is still hasn't moved.

I followed the instructions on the package to hydrate the yeast before pitching, maybe I screwed that up? The coopers was just pitched dry and there doesn't seem to be any problems.

 

[Yooper]

Okay... so my batch with the coopers yeast has taken off but the EC-1118 is still hasn't moved.

I followed the instructions on the package to hydrate the yeast before pitching, maybe I screwed that up? The coopers was just pitched dry and there doesn't seem to be any problems.

Add the rest of the package- one package is good for 1-6 gallons, according to Lalvin.

 

[ds0oc1]

I just pitched the remaining yeast dry, fingers crossed!

Thanks Yooper

 

[podz]

Okay... so my batch with the coopers yeast has taken off but the EC-1118 is still hasn't moved.

I followed the instructions on the package to hydrate the yeast before pitching, maybe I screwed that up? The coopers was just pitched dry and there doesn't seem to be any problems.

I tested it about 10 times with 5 different strains of yeast. I get exactly the same launch time, per yeast strain, if I hydrate or pitch dry. So, in the name of simplicity I stopped rehydrating a long time ago - even for the yeasts which instruct to hydrate.

1/4 of the packet should be more than enough for a 1 gallon batch. I've used 1/2 a packet to make 2 gallon batches - no problem. Whole packet of yeast is a waste of money for a 1 gallon batch.

IIRC, EC-1118 starts a whole lot slower than Coopers. Neither one of them are optimal for cider, though. I have found best cider results with Champagne yeast, especially Kitzingers Reinhefe Champagner.

 

[Yooper]

I tested it about 10 times with 5 different strains of yeast. I get exactly the same launch time, per yeast strain, if I hydrate or pitch dry. So, in the name of simplicity I stopped rehydrating a long time ago - even for the yeasts which instruct to hydrate.

1/4 of the packet should be more than enough for a 1 gallon batch. I've used 1/2 a packet to make 2 gallon batches - no problem. Whole packet of yeast is a waste of money for a 1 gallon batch.

IIRC, EC-1118 starts a whole lot slower than Coopers. Neither one of them are optimal for cider, though. I have found best cider results with Champagne yeast, especially Kitzingers Reinhefe Champagner.

EC-1118 is champagne yeast.

I've been really liking ciders with ale yeast lately- S04 especially.

 

[podz]

EC-1118 is champagne yeast.

I've been really liking ciders with ale yeast lately- S04 especially.

Ah yeah, right. Champagne yeast. I only used it once, but I had very good results with it despite a slow start.

I have heard a lot of fans of S04 for making cider, so I decided to test it. I made a batch with S04 a few months back and while it was fermenting, my wife said "Wow, that smells awesome compared to the Kitzinger's". It did have a really good smell. And when we tasted it, she said "Let's go back to the Kitzinger's". I immediately agreed. We drank the batch, but I don't know - maybe S04 needs aging - Kitzinger's doesn't. I don't believe in aging, so there you go.

 

[Pataka]

Interesting. I've had stubborn ferments with cider lately, and found the opposite - I made a yeast starter with Nottingham ale yeast and another with EC1118, and the latter took off within a few hours. I have made actual batches of Cider with EC1118 and found it strips the flavour to the point where it tastes a lot like watered down tap water. I've never actually made a successful batch of Cider as yet, however, so your mileage may vary. That said, I've got a batch of cider from apple juice and concentrate that is bubbling away thanks to the Nottingham I finally managed to get started.

I hope your Cider making luck is better than mine. If this current batch doesn't amount to anything, I'll be resigning from cider making, continuing to make wine, and perhaps have a shot at beer.

 

[ozzmosiz]

I've just started a 2 new batches on Friday and using Champagne yeast. Added some brown sugar and raisins and had my quickest start at 20 minutes!!!!

 

[podz]

I've just started a 2 new batches on Friday and using Champagne yeast. Added some brown sugar and raisins and had my quickest start at 20 minutes!!!!

The only way I ever got a start that fast was by pouring apple juice on top of a yeast slurry that I had just racked off from. That is, about 1.5 litres of thick slurry in a 20 litre demijohn.

Did you make a huge starter, or what?

 

[ozzmosiz]

The only way I ever got a start that fast was by pouring apple juice on top of a yeast slurry that I had just racked off from. That is, about 1.5 litres of thick slurry in a 20 litre demijohn.

Did you make a huge starter, or what?

Nope, just juice, brown sugar (6x tbspoons), honey (4xtbspoons), raisins (2 handfuls, washed and chopped), 1/4 cup of strong tea and champagne yeast in 2 x 4 litre demijohns.
I heated a little juice to dissolve the sugar and honey as much as possible, then just poured everything in.

It's going absolutely crazy and you can see it bubbling madly inside, not just in the airlock (which is going at a rate of 2x per second)

 

[lolznrofls]

I had a slow working gallon batch last week..I moved my jug to a different room and dropped in some nutrient and it took off within 15 minutes or so

 

[ds0oc1]

Thanks for all the great info guys - really appreciate it!

So I just took a couple samples from these batches as fermentation finally seemed to slow down.

The gravity readings in both came in around 1.005~. Unfortunately the batch that I had issues getting to ferment has a very strange rotting odor.

I assume that this has went off and I should pour it out?

The second batch has a delightful fruity smell compared to this.

Any ideas?

 

[Yooper]

Thanks for all the great info guys - really appreciate it!

So I just took a couple samples from these batches as fermentation finally seemed to slow down.

The gravity readings in both came in around 1.005~. Unfortunately the batch that I had issues getting to ferment has a very strange rotting odor.

I assume that this has went off and I should pour it out?

The second batch has a delightful fruity smell compared to this.

Any ideas?

I'd try splash racking, or pouring it back and forth into another sanitized container to see if you can get it "clean" again. It could be something simple, like just the very beginning of H2S, or it could be more serious. Splash racking or splashing to another fermenter would let you know for sure.

 

[ds0oc1]

I just took a little taste of the second that smelled good and it taste great

I still have a sample of the stinky stuff but I'm a little nervous to give that a taste haha

 

[ds0oc1]

I'd try splash racking, or pouring it back and forth into another sanitized container to see if you can get it "clean" again. It could be something simple, like just the very beginning of H2S, or it could be more serious. Splash racking or splashing to another fermenter would let you know for sure.

I'll try this Yooper - if it does "clean-up" should the smell go away?

 

[Yooper]

I'll try this Yooper - if it does "clean-up" should the smell go away?

Yes. That's what I meant. It hopefully is just the beginning of H2S, and you can get rid of it by splash racking. It is related to stressed yeast.

If it's worse, and it's far into H2S, and/or rotten yeast from the stress, there won't be any fixing it.

 

[ds0oc1]

Thanks Yooper.

I just did some additional reading on splash racking so I'll give this a try.

 

[sweetcell]

"splash racking" - interesting, never heard of that. any concerns about oxidation?

 

[Yooper]

"splash racking" - interesting, never heard of that. any concerns about oxidation?

No, as generally you are splash racking to solve a problem! Say, too much c02, some H2S, etc.

Still, immediately after some splash racking or degassing, some campden/k-meta would be recommended to prohibit further binding of oxygen to the wine.