No extra flavor from Belgian yeast?

[albino314]

I brewed a quick batch of cider with honeycrisp juice and a packet of Fermentis T-58 that I had left over. It tasted fine, but there was no "Belgian" character at all. I fermented around 66 degrees F, which gave me a great Belgian character in the ale I brewed the month before.

Any ideas why it didn't work for cider?

 

[bernardsmith]

Hi albino314. Truth is I am not familiar with Belgium ciders. Ciders from Normandy, OK. From England, yes.. but Belgium? Unless you are thinking that the apple juice might somehow take on the characteristics of a Belgium ale... but you say you fermented honeycrisp apple juice. What grains did you add that might have given this the flavor of a Belgium beer? and how familiar are you with Belgium ciders? Perhaps you hit those notes perfectly... but cider ain't beer.

 

[porterpounder]

I'm going to go out on a limb and hypothesize that perhaps the precursors required for the yeast to create detectable levels of esters and phenols that are present in beer wort may not be present in cider must. Just a guess.

 

[albino314]

Hmm, good points. I've never heard of "Belgian" cider, this was just an experiment to see what would happen. Maybe the cider is too easy to ferment or the yeast needs malt sugars to make phenols?

If I try again, I'll add some DME to the juice and see if that makes a difference.

Thanks!

 

[dmtaylor]

It is a fact: Belgian yeasts don't really do anything special to cider and the flavors don't compare at all to what they do to beer. Everyone expects phenols and excitement but it doesn't happen. Different sugars, different nutrients, everything is different. If you were to make a graff, then you might notice more of the Belgian character, but even then it's still dumbed down some.

 

[MindenMan]

Y'all might want to check out this link:
http://www.crispincider.com/thesaint
I personally have tried this cider and I thought it was amazing, and not surprisingly so did SWMBO.

 

[Redilyn]

For what its worth I have found that Belle Saison yeast leaves more apple flavor behind then the nottingham that I normally use.

 

[ericbw]

Crispin's The Saint is definitely Belgian. Maybe the temp should be higher? Maybe under pitch to coax more out?

 

[Paps]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=284885

 

[dmtaylor]

Crispin's The Saint is definitely Belgian.

Not in my experience. I'll admit that perceptions can be different among different people however.

 

[ericbw]

Not in my experience. I'll admit that perceptions can be different among different people however.

What would you say it is? It's cider fermented with a Belgian yeast.

 

[m00ps]

I have no experience in the cider vs beer wort in terms of ester formation, but T-58 is probably the most disappointing belgian yeast strain I've used. I haven't used it since I started using and saving liquid based cultures. Even when I did use exclusively dry yeast, I used Belle Saison for anything remotely Belgian. Abbaye wasnt out yet, but that seems to be a better option too

 

[dmtaylor]

What would you say it is? It's cider fermented with a Belgian yeast.

...and it's made by MillerCoors in the U.S. of A.

 

[LLBeanJ]

... but T-58 is probably the most disappointing belgian yeast strain I've used.

This is interesting to me because T-58 is the only Belgian strain I've used the has actually produced what I consider good results (I.e., a nice balance of esters and clove). I've tried WLP500, 530, & 550 and have been disappointed by all of them (found clove to be nonexistent or extremely muted). Nowadays, when I brew a Belgian, I go with T-58 and get reliably good results. I've also found WLP400 to be equally disappointing in the several witbiers I've brewed and will give T-58 a shot on my next one. With the exception of T-58 for Belgians, I use liquid yeast exclusively.

I'm not discounting your experience, rather just noting that it's funny how what seems to work for one brewer doesn't work well at all for another. I'm sure the liquid strains are capable of producing the character that I want, but I've not been able to figure out what the magic formula is to achieve that, despite running the gamut in varying pitch rates and temps.