No Chill Results Thread - Post your good or bad notes here.

[effectrammstein]

Hi there Yanky no chillers,

I have basically only done no chill beers, as I don't have a hose to pump any water through a chiller to cool the wort down.

As you all pretty much have found out there isn't much difference at all between no chill and chilled beers...I notice that some of you have brought all your hop schedule forward a bit to compensate for the 'extra bitterness'. This 'extra bitterness' is a huge debate over here in australia (I don't find that it adds any extra bitterness unless you add hops into the no chill cube). I have even done side by sides of a double batch, half no chilled and half chilled...even then there wasn't much difference to the aroma as well.

So, what I am wanting to ask you is from your experience with no chill, has it affected the aroma of the beer?

Cheers
Phil

 

[The Pol]

It is funny that you mention the bitterness issue. Initially I adjusted the schedule based on the aticle in BYO magazine that dealt with the "aussie style" of NC brewing.

Since then I have compared brews side by side and been able to taste a distinct difference in the hop bitterness. I hear all sorts of things, but I am hesistant to perpetuate what I hear as opposed to what I have experienced.

Several here in this thread have used the hop adjustment method and noted good results. I think others have also noted that when not moving the hops, they have noticed increased bitterness, which makes sense to me.

I say, if it works for you, do it, if it doesnt, then dont. People still tell me that NC doesnt work and it creates crappy beer. I dont argue... because it works excellent for me, they just have poor brewing skills, nothing can fix that

As for aroma, I have not attempted a flame out addition (FOR AROMA) since I began no chilling.

 

[Scut_Monkey]

RIGHT, you need HDPE... NOT PET plastic... Your better bottle will melt into a little glob.

So then it will be vacuum sealed right? :fro:

I'll be watching peoples results on NC beers. I'm interested in implementing it but planning on changing other brewing techniques first. I don't want to change too much altogether so I can pinpoint problems if they arise.

 

[Scut_Monkey]

So I normally primary in a Sanke, there should be any chance that it will colapse. Right? I have one of those little plastic caps the breweries put over the coupling for transit, maybe I could just put that on instead of sealing it up right away.

Are you asking if your Sanke Keg will collapse from the vacuum formed? They are rated for 60psi and made of stainless steel....... NO

 

[The Pol]

Are you asking if your Sanke Keg will collapse from the vacuum formed? They are rated for 60psi and made of stainless steel....... NO

True enough, but many containers rated for PRESSURE will not hold up to VACUUM. This is the case with many things, but in the case of a SS keg, I am sure it will be fine.

 

[Scut_Monkey]

True enough, but many containers rated for PRESSURE will not hold up to VACUUM. This is the case with many things, but in the case of a SS keg, I am sure it will be fine.

Yes true. 10 characters.

 

[BeerAg]

Any chance the pressure release valve will allow external air into the container when presented with a vacuum? I'm pretty sure the pressure relief valves in a corney keg would.

Pre-fermentation, there shouldn't be any oxidation issues, but just another potential source of contaminates.

 

[weirdboy]

I posted about this in the other thread, but I made a no-chill saison that turned out pretty nasty. Lots of cooked veggie flavors and aromas. It used pilsner as the base grain along with some munich and vienna, so that might have something to do with it.

I will be remaking the same recipe with some tweaks this weekend, and chilling it this time. I decided I'd rather spend a little extra time post-boil cooling it down than risk another nasty batch.

 

[The Pol]

Ive come to the conclusion that no chill doesnt work

 

[garretto]

Ive come to the conclusion that no chill doesnt work

haha that made me laugh pretty hard.

But hey Pol, I saw you mentioned you were gonna FWH and NC. Have you done this yet? I am brewin a Hefe right now that I'm FWHing in place of the 15 min addition. I've been wondering if boiling the FWH for 60 mins would be too long. NC is viewed as similar to boiling longer, ya? Like on the Hop Utilization Chart a 40 min addition is a 20 min addition.
So is FWH treated similar? Or just toss the FWH in as regularly planned?

I know you do 90 min boils so I figured I'd get your take on it because you will be boiling the FWH longer than me and can say if longer boils affect the FWH.

 

[chefchris]

Toss them in as planned. My first No Chill was all FWH. It was over 70 IBUs and tasted more like 45 IBUs.

 

[garretto]

ok sounds good. Thanks for the quick answer.

 

[weirdboy]

Ive come to the conclusion that no chill doesnt work

I suppose the snarky comment was directed at me. I gave no-chill a fair shot but had a bad experience. I am redoing the same recipe using my regular process. If I end up getting the same nasty off flavors, well then maybe I'll just chalk it up to a bad recipe or something, since I've brewed two (chilled) batches since the no-chill that have come out great. I figure having a decent point of comparison would be worthwhile, but feel free to have fun at my expense.

 

[The Pol]

I have ProMash set up to calculate the IBUs of a FWH as a 30 minute addition. Yes, there are more IBUs than that, but it doesnt taste like it... NC aside, I have found this to be a good way to calcualte MY FWH additions.

Since FWH is already boiled for the entire duration, the increased time at high temp will give you a net gain of nadda.

 

[garretto]

Sweet. Thanks for explaining.

Now I just need to figure out how to set up FWH in Beersmith. I use the FWH setting when I FWH, I just dunno what time to put in for the boil time. I've been putting 60 min cuz I boil 60 min. Does it work the same with NCing?

Can anyone chime in on this?

 

[Dr_Deathweed]

I suppose the snarky comment was directed at me. I gave no-chill a fair shot but had a bad experience. I am redoing the same recipe using my regular process. If I end up getting the same nasty off flavors, well then maybe I'll just chalk it up to a bad recipe or something, since I've brewed two (chilled) batches since the no-chill that have come out great. I figure having a decent point of comparison would be worthwhile, but feel free to have fun at my expense.

I don't intend to be "snarky" in any way, but since it has been pretty well documented that the no chill works, why don't we look into your procedure? There have been many permutations in the original no chill method on this board alone, and perhaps we can use your negative experience as a learning tool to help future no-chillers. Why don't we start with:

1. the recipe, and yeast info (strain, cell count, re-used yeast, starter, etc.)
2. your no chill container
3. how long from boiling to transfer to pitching
4. temperature at pitching
5. aeration method
6. fermentation time and temperature

 

[The Pol]

Sweet. Thanks for explaining.

Now I just need to figure out how to set up FWH in Beersmith. I use the FWH setting when I FWH, I just dunno what time to put in for the boil time. I've been putting 60 min cuz I boil 60 min. Does it work the same with NCing?

Can anyone chime in on this?

Well, I dunno about BS... but in ProMash you can go into settings and adjust the utilization for FWH. I adjusted mine so that when I choose FWH, it gives me what equals 30 minutes of utilization. This is the same whether you use NCing or chilling techniques.

If you build a recipe with FWH based on 60 minutes of utilization, your recipe will show many more IBUs than you will taste.

In ProMash when you choose FWH, it is just that FWH, there is no "boil time" as it already knows that you will be boiling it for the duration. ProMash asks you how long you are going to boil before you even get to this step... so it knows how long it will be in there.

 

[garretto]

Oh ok, I found where to change the utilization percentage for FWH. Right now its 10%.

So at 10% with a 60 min boil (entered into boil time) of FWH its equivalent to ~190 min boil. Haha a little over board.

I guess I'll have to adjust the utilization percentage...or figure out what to put in for the boil time. haha

thanks the Pol. Oh an I was gonna ask what percentage you have yours set at?

 

[The Pol]

Oh ok, I found where to change the utilization percentage for FWH. Right now its 10%.

So at 10% with a 60 min boil (entered into boil time) of FWH its equivalent to ~190 min boil. Haha a little over board.

I guess I'll have to adjust the utilization percentage...or figure out what to put in for the boil time. haha

thanks the Pol. Oh an I was gonna ask what percentage you have yours set at?

My FWH utilization is set at -20%

This allows ProMash to calcualte my FWH as a 30 minute addition in terms of IBU

 

[garretto]

Perfect. That worked. Thanks again (for about the fifth time haha)

 

[The Pol]

Perfect. That worked. Thanks again (for about the fifth time haha)

No problem.

 

[weirdboy]

I don't intend to be "snarky" in any way, but since it has been pretty well documented that the no chill works, why don't we look into your procedure? There have been many permutations in the original no chill method on this board alone, and perhaps we can use your negative experience as a learning tool to help future no-chillers. Why don't we start with:

1. the recipe, and yeast info (strain, cell count, re-used yeast, starter, etc.)
2. your no chill container
3. how long from boiling to transfer to pitching
4. temperature at pitching
5. aeration method
6. fermentation time and temperature

I think I already covered all the details on this in the other thread, but:

1. 2.5 gallon batch using 3# pilsner, 1# each munich and vienna, 0.5# wheat, 0.5# sugar added during fermentation
yeast was WLP566 (Saison II) fresh vial, made a 1L starter

2. container was HDPE bucket and lid, sealed

3. About 5 minutes or so boiling to transfer, overnight in bucket before I pitched in the morning

4. Pitched around 72F

5. Used a sterilized whisk to vigorously stir the wort for several minutes just before pitching. Same method I have used previously with no problems.

6. Fermentation was in the 70's and up to mid 80's for a couple of weeks before racking to secondary for one more week at room temps, around 80 or so

 

[Ketchepillar]

What are these cubes you all speak of? Link porfa.

 

[The Pol]

What are these cubes you all speak of? Link porfa.

This is what I use... and ferment in.

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/va...ory_name=25&product_id=13648&variant_id=75032

 

[The Pol]

Is the mid 80's a little hot for WLP566?

 

[garretto]

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/pr...=usplastic&category_name=15039&product_id=605
this is what I use. I dont ferment in it tho.

 

[weirdboy]

Is the mid 80's a little hot for WLP566?

I did research and found people that were using it in the 80's and 90's with good results, which is why I went with the temp profile I did. It is possible I got it too hot, though.

 

[The Pol]

WLP recommends 68-78F, though I have never used it

 

[weirdboy]

WLP recommends 68-78F, though I have never used it

Right, I know that. If you look on their website you'll see comments from people who have successfully used it up through the 90's.

 

[The Pol]

This is precisely why I dont beleive what I read on the interwebz