No chill in corny??

[mvolz]

In researching nc,it looks like most guys use plastic cubes to let the wort cool to room temp. While I have an immersion chiller,cooling 7 or 8 gallons of boiling wort takes a while,and not to mention uses alot of water,so why not try nc?

My question is,has anyone used a corny keg to put the hot wort into to cool? This avoids having to transfer it when the yeast is pitched. Just leave it in the corny for fermentation. The only thing Iworry about is dumping the hot wort into the keg,since I dont have a spout or spigot on my brew kettle.(Hot side aeration).And as far as getting all the air out,like they do in the cubes,obviously I cant squeeze my corny,so I would give it some co2 and purge a few times to get the air out.

Anyone do this?Any comments or ideas?Thanks

 

[wolfman_48442]

Yep, I do this.
I have a ball valve on the kettle, though - there's no way in hell I'd chance trying to dump 5 gal of 200 degree liquid into a keg.
I take two quarts of wort out of the kettle and put it in my flask for a RWS and then put the flask and (hot!) keg in my fermentation chamber.
The flask cools in an hour or so, and goes on the stir plate for 24 hours while I wait for the ferm chamber to do its thing.
When the starter is ready, I dump it in the keg and put the lid on. I seal the lid with a 30 psi shot from the CO2 bottle. Then put the spunding valve on, set for 10 psi.

 

[kpr121]

Yep, I do this.
I have a ball valve on the kettle, though - there's no way in hell I'd chance trying to dump 5 gal of 200 degree liquid into a keg.
I take two quarts of wort out of the kettle and put it in my flask for a RWS and then put the flask and (hot!) keg in my fermentation chamber.
The flask cools in an hour or so, and goes on the stir plate for 24 hours while I wait for the ferm chamber to do its thing.
When the starter is ready, I dump it in the keg and put the lid on. I seal the lid with a 30 psi shot from the CO2 bottle. Then put the spunding valve on, set for 10 psi.

That sounds like such a simple process. How long does it take for your ferm chamber to cool that boiling wort down? What kind of chamber are you using?

I would think it would cause the compressor to run almost constantly. 5 gallons of liquid at 200 degrees is a lot of energy. I did a few no chills and left the wort in a 7.5 gal sankey in the basement. I swear you could feel the heat when you walked down there.

 

[Ace_Club]

The only thing I'd be worried about is the integrity of the kegs. They are designed to hold positive pressure, not negative pressure.

Granted, the o-rings would probably fail before the steel did, but all that means is that air is leaking into the container, possibly contaminating the wort.

 

[doodlebug]

The only thing I'd be worried about is the integrity of the kegs. They are designed to hold positive pressure, not negative pressure.

Granted, the o-rings would probably fail before the steel did, but all that means is that air is leaking into the container, possibly contaminating the wort.

Good point :rockin:

 

[wolfman_48442]

That sounds like such a simple process. How long does it take for your ferm chamber to cool that boiling wort down? What kind of chamber are you using?

I would think it would cause the compressor to run almost constantly. 5 gallons of liquid at 200 degrees is a lot of energy. I did a few no chills and left the wort in a 7.5 gal sankey in the basement. I swear you could feel the heat when you walked down there.

I've never actually timed it, to be honest. It's down to whatever my desired temp is (usually 65) within 24 hours. I'm using a Holiday 7cu chest freezer.

It may well be rather hard on the freezer. The outer walls on it get almost painfully hot to the touch. I will just let it cool naturally when the weather cools.

I've done 5 batches like this, and so far, so good. Clean up is so simple though!

 

[wolfman_48442]

The only thing I'd be worried about is the integrity of the kegs. They are designed to hold positive pressure, not negative pressure.

Granted, the o-rings would probably fail before the steel did, but all that means is that air is leaking into the container, possibly contaminating the wort.

Admittedly low tech, but I leave the pressure relief open while cooling, draped with a paper towel soaked in star-san solution. I don't pressurize anything until the yeast is pitched.

 

[weirdboy]

Admittedly low tech, but I leave the pressure relief open while cooling, draped with a paper towel soaked in star-san solution. I don't pressurize anything until the yeast is pitched.

Wait, you pitch the yeast and then close up the keg? Am I reading that right?

 

[kpr121]

Wait, you pitch the yeast and then close up the keg? Am I reading that right?

He said he has a spunding valve set for 10 psi.

I absolutely love this idea. I may even splurge and get a few spunding valves. I do 10 gallon batches but I could easily drop that to 8-9 gallons and then ferment in two cornies. Only problem is now I gotta find some more cornies.

 

[wolfman_48442]

I was totally inspired by WortMonger's epic thread on closed-system pressurized fermentation. He and others are doing very similar things in sankes.

The consensus seems to be that this technique works great when you want a clean ferment with minimal esters.

If you're brewing a saison, or something that you want lots of esters in, I'd plan on doing it either in a non-pressurized keg (which means more krausen to deal with), or a carboy. The pressure allows me to ferment 5 gal in a corny, with not a drop of krausen in the spunding valve (last batch done was a 1.070 rye IPA). I do also add a few drops of Fermcap-S as well.

 

[redcoat_or_rebel]

i've no chilled in the kettle. just dont open the lid until it's time to tranfer to the carboy and pitch right away.

it takes about 24 hours to get to room temp so you might have to to cool it to 70* or whatever you are doing.

 

[mvolz]

Yep, I do this.
I have a ball valve on the kettle, though - there's no way in hell I'd chance trying to dump 5 gal of 200 degree liquid into a keg.
I take two quarts of wort out of the kettle and put it in my flask for a RWS and then put the flask and (hot!) keg in my fermentation chamber.
The flask cools in an hour or so, and goes on the stir plate for 24 hours while I wait for the ferm chamber to do its thing.
When the starter is ready, I dump it in the keg and put the lid on. I seal the lid with a 30 psi shot from the CO2 bottle. Then put the spunding valve on, set for 10 psi.

Sweet! Thanks for the info wolfman. I guess I will have to get a ball valve for my kettle. But what is a spunding valve? Is this a must to have? Think I will try this on my next brew If I get a valve for my kettle. What do you think of the weldless ones? My kettle is aluminum.

 

[SankePankey]

Just finishing up my first no chill experiment. Did it in my 2nd primary- a 15 G corny.

With my setup, I am doing the spunding valve thing but I chain another pressure vessel (another corny) off of the main one to catch blow-off and I put the valve on it (keeps the valve from getting dirty at all). All I do is put 2 shorter dip tubes in the chained corny so that I can push CO2 thru it and into the primary for racking and such. The spunding valve is great and you don't have to go all the way to carbonating pressures with it to make it worth the effort. Every beer I do gets a spunding- I do estery beers with it too and only push it up to like 2 PSI just so I can take gravity samples without hooking up the gas line. Hydrostatic pressures in larger brewery fermenters are beyond this, I think. And by keeping the krausen down, it also lets me fill the primary fermenter to the brim and only blow-off like a quart which helps protect the yeast.

It took till the next morning to chill down to pitching, about 8 gal final volume (I had a brewtastrophe...). My chambers are 7.2 cf Chest freezers with collars.

I hadn't thought about negative pressure, though, so good point. My vessel wasn't imploded in the morning, so I guess it worked OK. The only thing I have heard is that eventually the glue that holds the rubber handle and base will give way with that kind of continual heating.

 

[wolfman_48442]

Sweet! Thanks for the info wolfman. I guess I will have to get a ball valve for my kettle. But what is a spunding valve? Is this a must to have? Think I will try this on my next brew If I get a valve for my kettle. What do you think of the weldless ones? My kettle is aluminum.

WortMonger has a great page in the Wiki that explains spunding. It is only used to control pressure. You can ferment in a corny without trapping any CO2. Check out the thread on Primary Fermenting in a Corny Keg.


Spunding valve in action. The tube allows me to see if any blowoff is happening before it gets into the valve.


A little picnic tap I use to take gravity samples and to blow off some yeast when I'm ready to transfer.

I got a bulkhead and valve setup from BargainFittings that I'm very happy with. The price was great and he's a valuable member of this forum, too.
My kettle is aluminum, with a sidewall thickness of about 3/8". The valve and bulkhead are very sturdy, no flex.


The valve and hose barb.


Bulkhead and 'custom' diptube (a few dollars in copper from Lowes that I sweated together).
Works great, though! It's about 1/16" off the bottom, so very little trub gets injested before suction is broken and it leaves about a cup or so of wort in the kettle. Of course, I use whirlfloc religiously.

To cut the hole I got this step drill set from Harbor Freight. I think I paid around $10 for them.

Dang, that's a huge post! I hope it was helpful! Feel free to ask any more questions, too. That's how we all get better!

 

[fermenate]

In researching nc,it looks like most guys use plastic cubes to let the wort cool to room temp. While I have an immersion chiller,cooling 7 or 8 gallons of boiling wort takes a while,and not to mention uses alot of water,so why not try nc?

My question is,has anyone used a corny keg to put the hot wort into to cool? This avoids having to transfer it when the yeast is pitched. Just leave it in the corny for fermentation. The only thing Iworry about is dumping the hot wort into the keg,since I dont have a spout or spigot on my brew kettle.(Hot side aeration).And as far as getting all the air out,like they do in the cubes,obviously I cant squeeze my corny,so I would give it some co2 and purge a few times to get the air out.

Anyone do this?Any comments or ideas?Thanks

I have done it. The Korny keg stays super hot for a very long time. I transferred the 210F wort into the keg via tubing connected to a ball valve on my kettle. That way there is no hot side aeration. I then sealed the keg and slowly' purged the o2 from the headspace by outing in a low Psi of co2. A.day or two later I sanitized, transferred, and pitched.
It is just finishing its second week in the primary.

 

[_JP_]

Dang, that's a huge post! I hope it was helpful! Feel free to ask any more questions, too. That's how we all get better!

Thanks for posting all that. I have a bunch of cornies and am thinking of going this route with them.

A few ideas I've came up with on my own regarding the process:

1) To prevent the any contaminated air ingestion into the keg while it cools, you could pressurize with CO2 once it's sealed up.

2) Since you're fermenting an a chest freezer, you could fill it with water, and keep your temp probe in there. Water has a much higher heat transfer coefficient than air. This would allow you to keep temps spot on during fermentation. You could also chill the water bath to near freezing during brew day, which would cool that hot keg off very quickly (a few hours, maybe even 1 or 2). Once the keg's in there, set the temp controller to pitching temp and let it do it's thing.

 

[wolfman_48442]

JP,
2) is quite interesting! My freezer has a drain plug in the bottom, I've never tested it to see if it's water tight or not. If it holds, a freezer full of water sure would be able to get temps down quick and keep them there! I'd have to come up with a way to remove the water without dumping it out all over the garage, but I think I'm gonna do some small scale testing.
Thanks!

 

[mvolz]

WortMonger has a great page in the Wiki that explains spunding. It is only used to control pressure. You can ferment in a corny without trapping any CO2. Check out the thread on Primary Fermenting in a Corny Keg.


Spunding valve in action. The tube allows me to see if any blowoff is happening before it gets into the valve.


A little picnic tap I use to take gravity samples and to blow off some yeast when I'm ready to transfer.

I got a bulkhead and valve setup from BargainFittings that I'm very happy with. The price was great and he's a valuable member of this forum, too.
My kettle is aluminum, with a sidewall thickness of about 3/8". The valve and bulkhead are very sturdy, no flex.


The valve and hose barb.


Bulkhead and 'custom' diptube (a few dollars in copper from Lowes that I sweated together).
Works great, though! It's about 1/16" off the bottom, so very little trub gets injested before suction is broken and it leaves about a cup or so of wort in the kettle. Of course, I use whirlfloc religiously.

To cut the hole I got this step drill set from Harbor Freight. I think I paid around $10 for them.

Dang, that's a huge post! I hope it was helpful! Feel free to ask any more questions, too. That's how we all get better!

Thats great wolfman.Very helpful.Im gonna work on a kettle setup like yours and try this!I probl. wont use the spunding valve,unless its an absolute must.Thanks man

 

[onthekeg]

I have done this for over 2 years. I even store corneys full of sterile wort for months at a time before fermentation. No issues with implosion or the rubber bottoms coming off at all.

 

[mvolz]

I have done this for over 2 years. I even store corneys full of sterile wort for months at a time before fermentation. No issues with implosion or the rubber bottoms coming off at all.

Do you put the wort in hot-right after the boil?

 

[kpr121]

I have done this for over 2 years. I even store corneys full of sterile wort for months at a time before fermentation. No issues with implosion or the rubber bottoms coming off at all.

I like this! Such an awesome way to store unfermented wort. I do 10 gallon batches and don't always have room to control fermentation of all my batches. Putting off the ferment for a couple weeks would be great.

Man I should have bought more cornies when they were cheap.

 

[onthekeg]

Do you put the wort in hot-right after the boil?

Yes straight out of the kettle into a corney. Its sterile and continues to be. I have a couple kegs in the basement that I have to ferment yet from last January.

 

[kpr121]

Yes straight out of the kettle into a corney. Its sterile and continues to be. I have a couple kegs in the basement that I have to ferment yet from last January.

Whats your reasoning behind this? Is it pipeline control?

 

[kpr121]

I just got my hands on 8 additional cornies and am looking to try this no chill on this weekends brew. I think I am going to do an IPA that is hopbursted so that I can retain as much hops flavor and aroma as possible due to the extended high heat times.

The plan is to drain the wort into two cornies and send straight to my ferm chamber (AC Unit insulated box in garage). I have a Bell's strain of yeast that I have been stepping up, I'll pull a couple quarts of wort for RWS to really get that yeast going and pitch the next day. I Dont have a spunding valve (yet) but plan on rigging up a gas post to blowoff container.

 

[Swifty]

It's an old thread but, better than a new one.

Do you guys replace your ball valve/pin valve hardware with a plug of some sort or is it strait up corny hardware on top of your kegs? I thought about pulling my dip tubes and replacing the moving parts with an aproprately threaded plug. Like a pipe thread cap though I now know they aren't pipe thread.

It would eleminate the possibility of the poppit seals failing for some reason..

Anyone have some pictures for a simple brewer who likes pictures?