No boil Brew in a Keg-20 min. brewday

[madscientist451]

I'm super busy in the summertime and have little time or energy for a full brewday, and sometimes turn to extract to get a fresh beer done.
So here comes Dr. Hans with a brew in a keg extract method: I guess you could call it BIAK.....
-Add DME to (sanitized) keg
-Add boiling water put lid on and shake
-Add hops, put lid on and shake again
-Add cold top up water
-Toss in yeast
-Add dry hops after a couple of days
-Serve out of the same keg (floating dip tube)
No boil extract brewing isn't anything new, extract doesn't need to be boiled, but I never thought of just using the keg for the whole process. I already ferment my IPA's in kegs with a shortened dip tube and then close transfer to the serving keg. I've never heard of the shake in a keg method, anyone tried anything like this?
Here's a link to the video:

 

[pvtpublic]

I would suggest putting the hops in with the boil water, so that you can isomerize the the alpha acids. Boil it for 15 min so you can get around 15% utilization. I couldn't imagine getting very good isomerization with just adding hot water for 8 minutes. Other than that, I think this would work great, especially for an IPA. I would use aroma and flavor hops with as high AA% as possible to get the most out of it.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I never thought of just using the keg for the whole process

I think this would work great, especially for an IPA.

Using a keg is the interesting (and apparently surprising [1]) idea. I don't have kegs so I don't think about using them in unusual ways.

I agree with @pvtpublic - this would appear to work well for hop forward styles.

The draw-backs appear to be 1) a lack of proven recipes and 2) may not 'model' well in brewing software.

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Without reading a recipe and brew day notes, there's a bunch of uncertainly around hops (utilization, bitterness, IBUs, ...). At least one of the BBR hop sampler podcasts talked about lab measured IBUs. IIRC, the podcast also included a wort temperature range for the 20 minutes after the DME/hops were added. BBR also has a Nov 1 2018 podcast with a bunch of data. Anecdotal tasting reports suggest that one can get good results.

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[1] Home brewing can a big bag of ingredients, a big bag of equipment, and a big bag of techniques. Or it can be levels, graduations, and 'never looking back'. I suspect that we'll continue to see more creative combinations for home brewing with the 'big bags of ...' model for home brewing.

 

[madscientist451]

Yeah, so I'm already thinking of taking a simple, quick method and making it more complicated.
As mentioned above, since the BIAK method uses boiled water, why not boil the hops?
So I've taken a recipe I found here:
https://bisonbrew.com/extract-brewing/And scaled it down to 2.5 3 gallons:
Steep 1/2 lb. C-40 and 1 oz chocolate malt for about 20 mins. in about 1.5 gallons of water.
Get it boiling, add 1/2 oz Amarillo+ 1/2 oz Centennial, 15 min boil
Add 1/2 oz. Amarillo and 1/2 oz Centennial to keg with 3 lbs. DME, dump in boiling water, shake and let sit about 10 mins
Add ice and chilled top up water, hopefully get temp down enough to toss in some yeast.
No dry hop.
I figure the whole thing should take less than an hour.

 

[pvtpublic]

Steep 1/2 lb. C-40 and 1 oz chocolate malt for about 20 mins. in about 1.5 gallons of water.
Get it boiling, add 1/2 oz Amarillo+ 1/2 oz Centennial, 15 min boil
Add 1/2 oz. Amarillo and 1/2 oz Centennial to keg with 3 lbs. DME, dump in boiling water, shake and let sit about 10 mins
Add ice and chilled top up water, hopefully get temp down enough to toss in some yeast.
No dry hop.
I figure the whole thing should take less than an hour.

That's sounds pretty solid, it'll be balanced to the malty side. If I'm not a total moron with my calculations, that should put you somewhere around 1055 SG and about 19 IBU's, but with plenty of hop flavor. I doubt you'll get a Ninkasi with this method, but I'm definitely intrigued and would like to know about your results

 

[Wrendelar]

Came Across DrHans channel recently and in my binging of his content, I came across this experiment that he conducted multiple times.

I have some DME laying around that I dont really use anymore since I moved to all grain and I have just enough to do a 4 gallon batch. I'm also overflowing on hops so why not?

Gonna do the Shake N Brew method with:

3lbs. Pale Malt DME
1lb. of Amber DME
1lb. of Golden Candi Syrup.

.5 oz of Belma in the "boil"
.5 oz of Necatron in the "boil"
.5 oz of Belma as a Dry Hop
.5 oz of Necatron as a Dry Hop

Ferment under pressure with Voss Kveik

Rack it into 2 Oxebar plastic kegs and take it to the pool.

I'm not sold on the hop choices, have thought of a combo of Mandarina Bavaria and Bru-1 in place of the above mentioned hops.

Thoughts?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Thoughts?

We pasteurize (and boil) to create things and to remove things.

The process may be nothing more than a curious oddity.

 

[Wrendelar]

We pasteurize (and boil) to create things and to remove things.

The process may be nothing more than a curious oddity.

thats exactly it ... doing it because I'm curious if it works and at the end of the day if I dump it I loose 2 oz of hops and some 2+ yr old DME and Candi Syrup

 

[BrewerofBeers]

Awesome and weird idea! Sounds awesome. Following along. I currently have 2 empty corny kegs to use.

No one else too concerned about the oxidation when shaking the boiling wort? I guess it's the trade off. Pumping in CO2 instead is not out of the question obviously.

 

[bellhp]

No one else too concerned about the oxidation when shaking the boiling wort?

Nope ... even though I use dry yeast I still aerate my wort ... RDWHAHB

 

[Wrendelar]

No one else too concerned about the oxidation when shaking the boiling wort? I guess it's the trade off. Pumping in CO2 instead is not out of the question obviously.

Think of the shaking of the wort as the vigorous boil and whirlpool of the hops.

Nope ... even though I use dry yeast I still aerate my wort ... RDWHAHB

+1 to this … I do the same

 

[odie]

My experience with DME and hot water is that it likes to clump together like a rock. It takes me a lot of stirring to dissolve DME.

I would use LME.

 

[Wrendelar]

My experience with DME and hot water is that it likes to clump together like a rock. It takes me a lot of stirring to dissolve DME.

I would use LME.

From my limited understanding of these "brews" if you want to call them that, come out tasting better and less homebrew-like with DME as opposed to LME. Dr. Hans made a comment about it in one of the videos that he did on the process.

Honestly, I don't really know ... I'm using what I have on hand ... if it turns out half decent and it's a shortcut for a pool party beer in a pinch of time I'll try LME.

But in reality, I probably will only do one of these as I just have the ingredients on hand. Besides that, brewing beer is therapeutic for me, and this is just cheating.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Of course one would need to exercise some care to not get burnt agitating the hot water in the keg. Yes, I see this working just fine.

 

[schmurf]

I did this one time last year, I don't remember right now which recipe but I do remember the finishing result tasted like beer... i was happy with it.

 

[Wrendelar]

Here he gives a great explanation of the process and the why .. also he forgot his mittens.

 

[Bassman2003]

So many ways to brew beer. I think this method would benefit from a transfer to a serving vessel. There is a lot of stuff in there and getting the beer off of the stuff would help improve a compromised situation. While oxygen does not dissolve at boiling temps, the shaking part still makes me cringe! The temp surely falls below boiling once it is added to the vessel, so not really boiling in the end.

 

[Wrendelar]

So many ways to brew beer. I think this method would benefit from a transfer to a serving vessel. There is a lot of stuff in there and getting the beer off of the stuff would help improve a compromised situation. While oxygen does not dissolve at boiling temps, the shaking part still makes me cringe! The temp surely falls below boiling once it is added to the vessel, so not really boiling in the end.

When I do this I'm going to pressure ferment it in a keg and then transfer it to 2 Oxebar "serving" kegs. and I agree there has to be temperature loss but with fast reactions and timing of the process, you can get it very close. I'm not sure there is a problem with this as No Boil is ages-old.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

I'm not sure there is a problem with this as No Boil is ages-old.

^^ Yes, this! One needs to use this process with the right style in mind. A Pilsner with strong hop bite? No. A nice lawnmower ale or farmhouse ale you bet! Of course now that I think about it more, prehopped LME could deliver that kind of bitterness, but there isn’t control over how much bitterness there would be in the final product, so I wouldn’t recommend that approach. Obviously many would think that would be ”cheating” as well.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Here he gives a great explanation of the process and the why .. also he forgot his mittens.

Thanks! I watched the segment. Back in 2022, I saw a different video with a similar overview.

It's certainly entertaining to watch the videos!

My experience with DME and hot water is that it likes to clump together like a rock. It takes me a lot of stirring to dissolve DME.

I would use LME.

"Best practices" reminder: LME must be pasteurized to avoid the occasional spoiled batch.

Video uses Muntons "spray malt" ("screen grab" is from around 1:00 in the video).

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Anecdotally (in "I Brewed A Favorite Recipe Today"), there are observations that Muntons spray malt may dissolve easier in warm water than Briess DME.

 

[Wrendelar]

^^ Yes, this! One needs to use this process with the right style in mind. A Pilsner with strong hop bite? No. A nice lawnmower ale or farmhouse ale you bet! Of course now that I think about it more, prehopped LME could deliver that kind of bitterness, but there isn’t control over how much bitterness there would be in the final product, so I wouldn’t recommend that approach. Obviously many would think that would be ”cheating” as well.

Yeah, I'm shooting for a Pale Ale style, the group that this will be served to likes hoppier beers (Not that I really have a clue how Hoppy this will actually be). At the same time, they will not care if it's hazy or clear.

Thanks! I watched the segment. Back in 2022, I saw a different video with a similar overview.

It's certainly entertaining to watch the videos!



"Best practices" reminder: LME must be pasteurized to avoid the occasional spoiled batch.

Video uses Muntons "spray malt" ("screen grab" is from around 1:00 in the video).

View attachment 821727​

​

Anecdotally (in "I Brewed A Favorite Recipe Today"), there are observations that Muntons spray malt may dissolve easier in warm water than Briess DME.

If I were purchasing ingredients for this I would probably search out the Mutons Spray malt because im OCD like that, but Breiss it is, LOL

oh and Shake it like the Doctor ... Shake it like the Doctor!

 

[Wrendelar]

Getting ready to brew this today. I’ve modified the recipe a bit to get it more hop forward. I’m going to add .5 oz of each of the Belma and the Necatron to the initial boil let it roll for 10 minutes. Add it to the keg of the DME and Candy Syrup. Also going to zest an orange and add that in for an aroma flavor boost. Shake it up and let it stand for 10 min with another .5 oz addition of Belma and Necatron thinking hop stand. Top up the water and Pitch the Voss Kveik.

Ferment under pressure

Dry hop it 24 hours later and rack it in a week.

Should have beer on tap next weekend.

 

[fluketamer]

im gonna try this it looks too easy not to at least attempt it with whatevers lying around .

i dont ferment in kegs tho so im thinking ill shake it all up in my mini keg then pour it into the fermenter.

 

[Wrendelar]

im gonna try this it looks too easy not to at least attempt it with whatevers lying around .

i dont ferment in kegs tho so im thinking ill shake it all up in my mini keg then pour it into the fermenter.

I havent before this experiment, its not a bad way to go.

I made the following last weekend,

The Final Recipe ended up with 1oz of both belma and necatron in the boil for 10 min.
Added an ounce of Pacifica in with the DME and Candi syrup
poured in the boiling water and shook it for 5 min.
topped it off with 1 cold and 2 warm gallons of spring water
Pitched the Voss Kveik and fermented it under pressure.
Dry hopped the following evening and it appears to have finished some time last night.

gonna let it sit til Thursday or possibly Saturday and move it to the Oxebars and be done.

 

[Bassman2003]

Will be interested to hear about the outcome.

 

[Wrendelar]

Will be interested to hear about the outcome.

for sure, it was made for a 4th of July Party, I will definitely taste it before then

 

[BrewerofBeers]

It's that time...