No bittering hops in recipe?

[Kzang]

I am going to try to do a clone closely of abita select French connection. It uses French aramis, French Strisselspalt, and French triskel. According to my research, they are all aroma hops.

The only thing though is that they hop with aramis and also dry hop with it. Is this normal? I'm trying to figure how when to add the different hops at what time.

 

[Yooper]

There really isn't any such thing as "bittering hops" or "flavor hops" or "aroma hops". They are just called that based on the times they are put into the wort, and what they do.

For example, if you add hallertauer at 60 minutes, that's your bittering hops addition. If you add perle at 15 minutes, that's your "flavor" addition. If you add magnum at flame out, that's your "aroma" addition.

Some hops are listed as bittering hops or aroma hops, when you buy them. But that's not correct.

You can use any hop at any time. If your strisselspalt hops are added at 60 minutes, they ARE your bittering hops.

 

[Kzang]

Well, I was reading that you can "hop burst" and just add everything close to flameout instead of having the whole 60 minutes for the bittering hop.

I'm wondering if they just add them at the end. The IBU is 35 on the French connection.

 

[ncbrewer]

Well, I was reading that you can "hop burst" and just add everything close to flameout instead of having the whole 60 minutes for the bittering hop.

I'm wondering if they just add them at the end. The IBU is 35 on the French connection.

I've read about hop bursting, too, but haven't tried it. You have to decide what you're going for in terms of bitterness, flavor, and aroma. Another way to get lots of hop flavor and aroma is with a hop stand - that's what I usually do. I like the results.

 

[Kzang]

It is a kind of complex beer. It has the 35 IBU so it isn't that bitter. It has floral and fruit notes like apricot and peach. It is a saison, but similar to a pale ale.

I'm trying to find a template to follow. I want to do a imperial style, with vanilla bean added. However, I'm not sure how the vanilla bean will affect the bitterness and flavor. I'm not sure if going a higher ABV would affect things. I just wish Abita would send me their grain bill.

 

[Yooper]

Oh, I do hopbursting all the time.

You can add all the hops late in the boil, and get lots of hops flavor. Of course, there is bittering too but if the hops are boiled for less time, there will be less bitterness.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

Another way to look at it.

Hops that are listed as "bittering" hops, would be hops that don't have any particular strong/unique flavors/aromas, may have higher alpha acid content. Thats how I explain it to myself, I will grab some Magnum, and use enough magnum to get my IPA to the right IBUs I want for the recipe. I could still use Magnum for aroma additions, but it doesn't have any distinct aroma characteristics.

Hops listed as "aroma" hops usually have very distinctive flavors/aromas. Simcoe/Citra/Mosaic are a couple very distinctive hops. Some have very high AA content, so they'd be good to get a quick burst of IBUs out of 60 minute addition. But I could just bitter with a clean bittering hop like Magnum, and save an ounce of Citra for the sub 5 minute/flameout/whirlpool/hopback/dry hop.

 

[drainbamage]

Another way to look at it.

Hops that are listed as "bittering" hops, would be hops that don't have any particular strong/unique flavors/aromas, may have higher alpha acid content. Thats how I explain it to myself, I will grab some Magnum, and use enough magnum to get my IPA to the right IBUs I want for the recipe. I could still use Magnum for aroma additions, but it doesn't have any distinct aroma characteristics.

Hops listed as "aroma" hops usually have very distinctive flavors/aromas. Simcoe/Citra/Mosaic are a couple very distinctive hops. Some have very high AA content, so they'd be good to get a quick burst of IBUs out of 60 minute addition. But I could just bitter with a clean bittering hop like Magnum, and save an ounce of Citra for the sub 5 minute/flameout/whirlpool/hopback/dry hop.

I'll add on to this that some flavor/aroma hops are not well suited to bittering additions because they lend a harsh flavor or character to the beer. I know Citra is one in particular that many aren't fond of for early additions because you get none of the pleasant fruity character, but instead something that people usually refer to as "cat-piss".

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

I'll add on to this that some flavor/aroma hops are not well suited to bittering additions because they lend a harsh flavor or character to the beer. I know Citra is one in particular that many aren't fond of for early additions because you get none of the pleasant fruity character, but instead something that people usually refer to as "cat-piss".

I a glad you mentioned this part because I had read that, but wasn't sure enough to put it in my post.

The other bonus for using 'true' bittering hops, particularly ones with super high AA contents. You buy a whole oz of 18%AA and you could properly bitter like 3 batches of beer if they have low IBU requirements for the recipe. Cheaper than throwing a 1oz charge of a lower AA HOP.

 

[mrdail87]

I've brewed IPA's with no real "bittering" addition. That is, I only added hops starting at 30 minutes, and they came out fantastic.

Really though any hops can go either way. They term hops after their most common usage. A hop is a hop.

 

[rodwha]

My latest IPA was done in that fashion. I used equal parts at 30, 20, 10, and 5 mins, and though it was flavorful I felt it was missing the bitter.

 

[Homercidal]

I am going to try to do a clone closely of abita select French connection. It uses French aramis, French Strisselspalt, and French triskel. According to my research, they are all aroma hops.

The only thing though is that they hop with aramis and also dry hop with it. Is this normal? I'm trying to figure how when to add the different hops at what time.

It's hard to figure out what's what in a clone recipe unless you have some more information. Since all of those hops are "aroma" hops, no single one of them jumps out as the bittering addition. You may have to contact someone from the brewery and ask. (Some craft brewers are willing to give out that kind of information)

If that fails, you are down to just reading up on the hops as best you can, and selecting one (probably the highest AA% hop) as the bittering hop addition and going for it.

A lot of brewers will use a high alpha hop for bittering because it saves them $$. The flavor and aroma are usually quite low after the hop has been boiled away, and it takes less hops to give the same amount of bitter.

BUT, any hop can be used for bittering if the brewer so chooses. Centennial is a relatively high AA% hop, but it's also widely used for both flavor and aroma, including dry hopping.

You may decide to brew this beer several times. Try brewing it once with one hop as the flavor hop, and the other as aroma. Compare with the original beer. Decide if the hops need to be swapped.

There are many variables in homebrewing. This may take a while to figure out.

 

[Kzang]

I was thinking at 30 mins 1 oz hallertau (substitute for high AA French aramis) and dry hop 1 oz with it

At 15 mins, put in 1 oz or 2 oz French strisselspalt OR 15 mins 1 oz then 1 oz at 5.

Then at 5 mins, add French triskel 2 oz OR 1 oz at 10 mins then 1 oz at 5 mins.

Reason is that I will have 2 oz both of triskel and strisselspalt, so I might as well use it?

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

My latest IPA was done in that fashion. I used equal parts at 30, 20, 10, and 5 mins, and though it was flavorful I felt it was missing the bitter.

When you say it was missing the 'bitter', what do you mean? Did the IBUs calculate out lower than you thought? Or did the perceived bitterness turn out lower than the calculators said (calculations said 70IBU but perceived IBU was more like 35)?

I am planning a black IPA soon with all home grown cascade hops. 34.5oz, 13oz are dried, the rest are fresh wet (frozen). I was thinking I'd just add it all in the last 10 minutes, with the vast majority being sub-3 minutes. Lowest calculations would give me like 70IBUs so curious about others attempts with no "bittering" additions.

 

[rodwha]

I calculated for just over 100 IBU's, but topping up with 1/3 water, which I'm told effectively would give me closer to ~67 IBU's.

It was very hop flavorful, but felt as though, and was, missing the bitter. It seemed just a bit strange to me. Maybe like there wasn't enough bitter to offset the sweetness from the malts and the flavor of the hops?

I'll have to try this again as some of this offness could be due to my mash mistake in which I forgot to dilute my filtered tap water along with the salts, which I did after 15 mins. This diluted my thin (1.5 qts/lb) mash. What I ended with was more for an amber type beer according to the calculator, but I didn't want an extremely thin mash.

 

[Kzang]

Well I did a rough calculation of the IBU and I get roughly 34 IBU and the French connection abita is 35 IBU.

I can get it if I add 1 oz hallertau at 30, 2 oz French strisselspalt at 15 min, and 2 oz triskel at 5 minutes.

Does this sound right or good? Keep in mind I'm using he max range for their Alpha range and I will be trying to make an imperial style by adding light Belgian candy.

I may have to add 1.5 oz hallertau at 30 minutes or add 1 oz French triskel at 10 mins and 1 oz French triskel at 5 minutes to get IBU up a tad.

I might just do 1.5 hallertau at 30 mins with 0.5 oz dry hop, 15 min 2 oz French strisselspalt, 1 oz French triskel at 10 min, and 1 oz French triskel at 5 mins which would net me a IBU of 46 at the highest possible range.

Keep in mind I don't know the original gravity yet. (I know what malts to use I think, but I don't know how much to use) I used an original gravity of 1.075 as a starter.