Nightmare Cider - impending disaster

[vast_reaction]

Hi. My friend's 24th birthday is coming up in a few months, and he asked me to brew him something as a gift. Sounds easy enough. I asked what he might like, style-wise. This is verbatim: "Oh, I don't care about style. Just whip something up that might give me nightmares."
Again, sounds easy enough. Behold, Nightmare Cider:

2 gallon batch.
OG - 1.100

2 gallons Apple Juice
.75# Crystal 20L steeped at 160
2.5# Sugar
2# Honey
Champagne Yeast

I figure I can ferment this low enough to hit the ABV of a fortified wine. I will let it clear up in the primary though, I won't give this to him as a vicious hooch. Might even use some Sparkolloid! Does this look like it will just taste a little violent, or could it actually strip paint?

 

[Calder]

I think your OG estimate is wrong. I'd say you are probably closer to 1.150.

Assuming the juice is 1.050, that's 100 points. The sugar is another 115. The honey is 70. And the Crystal will be about 15. TOTAL = 300 points.

In 2 gallons that will give you 1.150. You could get to 20% if the yeast holds up and you ferment to dryness.

 

[bierhaus15]

Champagne yeast will give you hooch. Undrinkable within 2 years of brewing.

 

[vast_reaction]

The OG estimate is per BeerSmith's calculations. Apple Juice has a SG of roughly 1.042. I used that number for a 4 gallon batch of Edwort's Apfelwein, and I nailed the OG. But that's interesting with the Champagne Yeast being undrinkable until it mellows for ~2 years. Would Montrachet mellow sooner, as that's what's recommended for Apfelwein, and that seems to mellow after a year. Thanks for the replies!

 

[Yooper]

Champagne yeast will give you hooch. Undrinkable within 2 years of brewing.

Why is that?

Here's my apple juice wine (taken from Jack Keller):

1 gal. fresh or bottled apple juice or cider
1.25 pounds granulated sugar (more or less to bring s.g. to 1.095)
1 tsp acid blend
1 2/3 tsp pectic enzyme
1 crushed campden tablet
1/4 to 1/2 tsp tannin
1 1/2 tsp yeast nutrient
wine yeast (champagne is good)

In primary, stir sugar into juice until dissolved. (mix a little less at first, check s.g. and add the rest if you need to- some juices are naturally sweeter than others). Add acid blend, 1/4 tsp tannin, yeast nutrient and crushed campden tablet. Stir well, cover and let sit for 12 hours. Stir in pectic enzyme and recover primary. After an additional 12 hours, add activated yeast and cover primary loosely. Stir daily for 10 days, then recover. Taste to determine tannin adequacy. If not adequate, stir in an additional 1/8 tsp tannin and set aside four hours. Taste again to determine if an additional 1/8 tsp tannin is required. When satisfied, rack into secondary and fit airlock. Any additional wine can be poured into a smaller bottle with an airlock and can be used for topping up later. Rack, top up, and refit airlock every 60 days for 6 months. Stabilize, sweeten if desired, and wait two weeks. Rack into bottles and set aside one year. (Jack keller recipe)

1.25 pounds of sugar per gallon gets me to 1.095ish. I think you'll be quite a bit over 1.100 with the 2 pounds of honey. If you keep the fermentation temperature in the high 60s, low 70s, it should ferment ok. You may want to use some other additives for flavor, like a pinch of tannin and/or some acid blend.

I'd mix it up without the sugar initially (just the honey) and check the SG. Use enough sugar to get you to 1.110 or so. Any higher, and you may have a problem getting it to ferment out.

As it finishes, you could either add some more fermentables (like honey) to get it to finish sweet or wait until it finishes and stabilize and sweeten if desired. It should finish pretty dry, and probably a bit "hot", so some sweetening might make it more palatable without much aging.

 

[Calder]

The OG estimate is per BeerSmith's calculations. Apple Juice has a SG of roughly 1.042. I used that number for a 4 gallon batch of Edwort's Apfelwein, and I nailed the OG.

Then you didn't put the right things into BeerSmith. OK, if the juice is 1.042, you will end up about 1.042. If it's corn sugar in place of cane sugar, you will still be around 1.030.

Just pointing out that there is a lot more fermentables in there than you think.

 

[steve7283]

Here's what I've done in the past that works out great for a cider recipe. I usually only deal with 5 gallon batches so you'll have to scale down. This recipe may not be a nightmare, but it will get you pretty messed up, and is really easy to make, and best of all, tastes like apple pie in a glass.

Ingredients

5 gal. pasteurized preservative-free apple juice
3 lb. dark brown sugar
½ tsp. whole allspice
½ tsp. whole cloves
2 cinnamon sticks
Liquid English cider yeast (NOT CHAMPAGNE YIEST - I have only had bad results)
2 cans frozen apple juice concentrate (Add however much to meet your tastes. This is what I prefer)
Potassium metabisulfite
Potassium sorbate
Sparkolloid (optional)​

Directions

1. Start your liquid yeast pack as directed on back of package.
2. Bring approximately 1 gal. apple juice to a boil.
3. Add sugar and spices
4. Bring mix back to a boil. Boil for a few minutes to kill any nasties that might be in spices or sugar.
5. Dump hot mixture, including all spices, in carboy. Top off with remaining apple juice.
6. Add ¼ tsp. potassium metasulfite (kills anything that might be in the juice).
7. Pitch yeast.
8. Ferment. This will take approximately 2 weeks.
9. Once fermentation runs its course, add ¼ tsp potassium metasulfite, and 2 ½ tsp. potassium sorbate. This preserves the cider, and prevents any additional fermentation when the apple juice concentrate is added.
10. (Optional) Add Spakolloid as directed on package to clear cider faster.
11. Once clear rack to secondary. Do this about a month after adding Sparkoloid, or if no Sparkoloid was added, about 3 months after fermentation ceases.
12. Let cider age for an additional month or two. I would reccomend that from the time the fermentation ceases to the time you drink, the cider should have aged for 3 months minimum. The Cider will mellow out and continue to clear.
13. Back sweeten by adding apple juice concentrate that has been boiled for a few minutes.
14. Bottle.
15. Drink – a lot.​

OG Approximately 1.085
FG 0.99
ABV 12.4%

 

[vast_reaction]

Thank you for all the input and recipe suggestions!

Calder, you're totally right. I was using a copy of BeerSmith from a different computer, and some values were obviously not input correctly. I did it again once I got back home, and yeah, that initial recipe is like 1.144, and would cook your face off.

Thanks again everyone, I'm sure I can now make something to suit his needs, without tasting like varnish.