NHC 2015 - Registration Open

[TobyG]

Definitely Spice/Herb/Veg, APA, and either lite lager or dark lager.

Partial competition on 1 cat. I bottled my strong scotch and wood-aged version last night. I'm bottling my amber later in the week.

Got my first choice too, Ohio. Last year we were able to drop off in April, this year it looks like it must be dropped on March 11th for an April Judging.

Yeah, that seems a little off. Thankfully, Austin is the first weekend, so it's less an issue for me.

Entering IIPA,IPA,APA, Strong Scotch Ale (I'll never learn my lesson)

Which lesson?

 

[TobyG]

I've never entered this before. I applied this year. When will we know if we are accepted?
TD

You should have received an email today.

 

[NervousDad]

Partial competition on 1 cat. I bottled my strong scotch and wood-aged version last night. I'm bottling my amber later in the week.

Yeah, that seems a little off. Thankfully, Austin is the first weekend, so it's less an issue for me.

Which lesson?

Just that there is usually a ton of people in those categories.

 

[TobyG]

Just that there is usually a ton of people in those categories.

Ah. Yeah, that's true. My goal is to have to pick something else other than category 9 to judge 2nd round. I had a pretty bad bottling run last year (had about half of the batch that lost carbonation, most of which wound up being the entered ones).

 

[Braufessor]

I have 4 going to St. Louis..... I brewed 6 with NHC in mind and will choose which 4 make the cut over the next few weeks: Bo Pils, Dortmunder, Helles, Scottish 70, Dusseldorf Alt and British Dark Mild.

Will probably have an APA, IPA and Blonde available/Ready . . . . But less likely to enter those.

 

[Skrazybrews]

I have 4 headed to St. Louis as well.

I'm sending in 3 meads (traditional, methoglin, cyser)

Best of luck to all of ya!

 

[SlanginDueces]

I've never entered this before. I applied this year. When will we know if we are accepted?
TD

I have not received an email yet either. It says they have until the 17th to notify though

 

[SlanginDueces]

I have not received an email yet either. It says they have until the 17th though.

 

[Hello]

My email said the emails are staggered but all who applied got in with a 4 beer maximum.

 

[LabRatBrewer]

My email said the emails are staggered but all who applied got in with a 4 beer maximum.

Good to know. I have not received an email yet. Only asked for one (that should be all it takes )

 

[Brettomomyces]

Got 2 for my first pick in Denver, entering a 2a and 2b, so at least during that month between drop off and judging they'll be lagering away

 

[eulipion2]

This is my first time entering Nationals, so I figure go big or go home. Entering an American barleywine, imperial stout, and Belgian dark strong.

 

[TrickyDick]

You should have received an email today.

Thanks! Yes I got it. Four entries, Nashville center.

Any idea what category an India Pale LAGER would be in?

Need to read up on the rules. I wished I had bottled my belgian in regular bottles instead of corked 750ml. I'll probably ruin it trying to transfer it. Maybe just pick something different. To submit.

TD

 

[Darwin18]

Cat 23

 

[AnOldUR]

Dunno about that. If they can somehow tell it's a lager, than yes. But if it's just a clean IPA, put it in as an IPA.

Judges will look for what you say makes it special. If they can't find it, you'll be hit.

 

[Hello]

Dunno about that. If they can somehow tell it's a lager, than yes. But if it's just a clean IPA, put it in as an IPA.

Judges will look for what you say makes it special. If they can't find it, you'll be hit.

If that was referring to my post, I already have an IPA being entered and I missed the part about not entering two in the same category. I may sample my pumpkin again and see about just entering that. We'll see.

 

[TrickyDick]

Dunno about that. If they can somehow tell it's a lager, than yes. But if it's just a clean IPA, put it in as an IPA.

Judges will look for what you say makes it special. If they can't find it, you'll be hit.

Yes this seems to be a bit vague upon reading the style guidelines. It really doesn't have any special ingredients, just differnt yeast than is traditionally used. I'd like to hear from past IPL entrants please on how they entered and what comments they received. This might be worth of its own thread??

It seems another beer I am contemplating entering, would fit into the 23 category. I thought it was an old ale, but the commercial example that my brew was inspired by and brewed to similar effect is one of the beers listed in the BJCP guidelines as a commercial example of the 23 category (arrogant bastard).
Sort of hate to enter two beers into 23, and thinking the IPA category will be fierce. Maybe I just pick a different beer to enter.

TD

 

[Yooper]

Yes this seems to be a bit vague upon reading the style guidelines. It really doesn't have any special ingredients, just differnt yeast than is traditionally used. I'd like to hear from past IPL entrants please on how they entered and what comments they received. This might be worth of its own thread??

It seems another beer I am contemplating entering, would fit into the 23 category. I thought it was an old ale, but the commercial example that my brew was inspired by and brewed to similar effect is one of the beers listed in the BJCP guidelines as a commercial example of the 23 category (arrogant bastard).
Sort of hate to enter two beers into 23, and thinking the IPA category will be fierce. Maybe I just pick a different beer to enter.

TD

If you do decide to enter the AB clone, make sure it's an exact clone! Mine wasn't and was less bitter (but it was good) so I entered it as "23B- Imperial amber ale" and it did quite well.

 

[Darwin18]

Dunno about that. If they can somehow tell it's a lager, than yes. But if it's just a clean IPA, put it in as an IPA.

Judges will look for what you say makes it special. If they can't find it, you'll be hit.

http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style23.php

If you take a look at 23 it's a catch all for minor styles that don't have established categories. For example you'll usually see several Black IPAs in 23. That's why I suggested 23 for his IPL.

That being said, I've never had a IPL however I doubt it would fit in well in 14B and the large amount of American hops would probably stand out negatively in any of the lager categories.

 

[TobyG]

Any idea what category an India Pale LAGER would be in?

Like Darwin said, 23.

Need to read up on the rules. I wished I had bottled my belgian in regular bottles instead of corked 750ml. I'll probably ruin it trying to transfer it. Maybe just pick something different. To submit.

It would definitely be a pain to transfer. Gordon mentions a technique he has used in Brewing Better Beer. Involves a clean/sanitized 2L bottle and a carbonator cap. Basically transfer to the 2L and get the CO2 level to a little above where you need it. Then chill both the 2L and clean/sanitized 12 oz bottles to 32F and pour very carefully.

 

[TrickyDick]

If you do decide to enter the AB clone, make sure it's an exact clone! Mine wasn't and was less bitter (but it was good) so I entered it as "23B- Imperial amber ale" and it did quite well.

It's as exact as I've been able to make. Have not yet not the side by side test, but I love the beer (homebrew). Doubled the hops because mine wasn't as bitter first go around.

Thanks for the tips!

My IPL is not going to be ready for the competition I now realize, so that solves that problem. Trying to find a way to remove some silkscreen labels on beer bottles I've re-used for homebrew. If I can pull that off, I might be in luck with a sour entry. If not, then either an IPA or a British pale ale entry. Maybe a wood aged alternately. Saison and Dopplebock are probably my last two entries. I've never entered any competitions before so this is uncharted territory. At any rate, at least I'll get some high level feedback.

TD

 

[TrickyDick]

Like Darwin said, 23.



It would definitely be a pain to transfer. Gordon mentions a technique he has used in Brewing Better Beer. Involves a clean/sanitized 2L bottle and a carbonator cap. Basically transfer to the 2L and get the CO2 level to a little above where you need it. Then chill both the 2L and clean/sanitized 12 oz bottles to 32F and pour very carefully.

The IPL is out, won't be ready in time to ship by deadline.

As I realize, I've only got two 750ml left of that belgian, so not enough to enter (5 bottles) unless I can magically discover some 10 oz bottles. I have other beers to enter though, but that one was a favorite with friends and belgian beer lovers.


Thanks for the help folks!!

TD

 

[AnOldUR]

Any idea what category an India Pale LAGER would be in?

This is getting off topic, but has me curious. A few people now have said 23 as the category for an IPL. I'd like to hear the opinion of some BJCP judges.

My thought is that to be a specialty beer it has to have something that distinguishes it as special from the base style that you can note on the entry form and be tasted and seen by a judge. In a hop forward beer like an IPA, I can't see how anyone would pick out that a lager yeast was used. It's nothing like a Black IPA that has appearance, aroma and flavor differences from a normal IPA. It may be possible to make a cleaner IPA by lagering, but it's more of a point of interest rather than something that effects the overall character of the beer. It seems to me that it would be like decocting your IPA and putting it in 23 for that reason.

 

[Brettomomyces]

This is getting off topic, but has me curious. A few people now have said 23 as the category for an IPL. I'd like to hear the opinion of some BJCP judges.

My thought is that to be a specialty beer it has to have something that distinguishes it as special that you can note on the entry form and tasted and seen by a judge. In a hop forward beer like an IPA, I can't see how anyone would pick out that a lager yeast was used. It's nothing like a Black IPA that has appearance, aroma and flavor differences from a normal IPA. It may be possible to make a cleaner IPA by lagering, but it's more of a point of interest rather than something that effects the overall character of the beer. It seems to me that it would be like decocting your IPA and putting it in 23 for that reason.

I've had a few different IPLs before, and considering how broad the range of tastes can be for IPAs I would agree it's going to be pretty hard to pick out the fact that a lager yeast was used and appreciate that difference, especially with such a hop forward beer.

The other side of this coin, is that judging 23 is a lot different than judging other categories. When you're judging a regular IPA you have a particular set of guidelines to go by that try to best encapsulate what an IPA is. But when judging 23, it's much more open ended. And when you get down to picking first, second and third for the category you have to evaluate each beer for what it is and then against the others in the category. A very well made IPL is going to be overshadowed by some of the more extreme beers that wind up in the category. But this all hinges on the experience level and tastes of who judges the category.

Still a great way to get feedback from judges, but if you're in it to win it it's going to be tough.

 

[Darwin18]

This is getting off topic, but has me curious. A few people now have said 23 as the category for an IPL. I'd like to hear the opinion of some BJCP judges.

My thought is that to be a specialty beer it has to have something that distinguishes it as special from the base style that you can note on the entry form and be tasted and seen by a judge. In a hop forward beer like an IPA, I can't see how anyone would pick out that a lager yeast was used. It's nothing like a Black IPA that has appearance, aroma and flavor differences from a normal IPA. It may be possible to make a cleaner IPA by lagering, but it's more of a point of interest rather than something that effects the overall character of the beer. It seems to me that it would be like decocting your IPA and putting it in 23 for that reason.

I'm BJCP Certified, and if you look at the description for 23 it's generally a catch all for minor or new styles that wouldn't typically fit into the usual categories:

http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style23.php

I've judged the specialty category a few times and like Brettomomyces said it's different from other categories. The judges have a lot more room for personal interpretation than other categories. I'll add a caveat that I've never tried an IPL, however, so I'm not sure how much of a difference the lager vs ale yeast makes. If it's well made and has a solid description then the judges would have a difficult time giving it a poor score.

 

[TrickyDick]

IMHO, this thread is right ON target!

At any rate, go pick up a bottle or sixer of SN beer camp "hoppy lager" which is out now. It's an "IPL". The smooth lager characteristics help the hop flavors and aromas shine through. Very nice brew that one. I suspect that there will be a fair number of IPL beers this year at the NHC.

I think I found a way to remove the silkscreen off my homebrew reused commercial bottles, so pretty stoked about trying that out soon since one of my potential entries was bottled in those style bottles.

TD

 

[NervousDad]

I got an email from the organizer of the Ohio competition about the 1 month bottling time and he said it's the same for everyone.

I think that's a great idea! It gives everyone the same bottling time. I know last year, I was able to drive my entries to the drop off and they only spent 2 weeks in the bottle, others that had to ship had to sit there for a month. Not very fair, especially in hoppy categories.

Worked out perfect for me since I have a DIPA,IPA and Pale ale all sitting in fermenters ready to go! I thought I was going to have to rebrew them all

 

[TobyG]

[...] I've never entered any competitions before so this is uncharted territory. At any rate, at least I'll get some high level feedback.

Honestly, you will probably not get high quality feedback from NHC. Both first and second round use the checklist score sheets, so although you may have a chance at getting a high-ranked judge scoring your beer, they goal is to quickly pick out the beers worth advancing to the mini-BOS and, more importantly, 2nd round. I would rate the feedback I got last year as ranging from mediocre to pathetic. It's the nature of NHC, honestly. If you make it to 2nd round, the ranking of your judges will go up (they wanted at least a National on each pair last year), but the feedback still probably won't increase that much since they're trying to score all beer categories and award by lunch time (last year beer was morning and mead/cider was afternoon).

This is getting off topic, but has me curious. A few people now have said 23 as the category for an IPL. I'd like to hear the opinion of some BJCP judges.

You have. Both Darwin18 and I are Certified.

My thought is that to be a specialty beer it has to have something that distinguishes it as special from the base style that you can note on the entry form and be tasted and seen by a judge. In a hop forward beer like an IPA, I can't see how anyone would pick out that a lager yeast was used. It's nothing like a Black IPA that has appearance, aroma and flavor differences from a normal IPA. It may be possible to make a cleaner IPA by lagering, but it's more of a point of interest rather than something that effects the overall character of the beer. It seems to me that it would be like decocting your IPA and putting it in 23 for that reason.

Category 23 is a catch all for anything that doesn't have an existing category. It could be anything from an imperial version of an existing category to a clone to a complete experiment (e.g. what would happen if I fermented an IPA with lager yeast). Since IPLs use a different process and a different yeast, they are currently experimental, so belong in 23. In the 2015 guidelines, someone could propose a set of tasting guidelines for IPL under the Specialty IPA category, but until someone proposes a guideline as an established category, it's still an experimental style.

 

[FarmerTed]

Got 2 for my first pick in Denver, entering a 2a and 2b, so at least during that month between drop off and judging they'll be lagering away

Are they storing the bottles cold at Station 26? I guess it's the same for everyone, but i hope so. I'm not sure it will be at a lagering temp, though.

 

[eulipion2]

I think I found a way to remove the silkscreen off my homebrew reused commercial bottles, so pretty stoked about trying that out soon since one of my potential entries was bottled in those style bottles.

Overnight soak in OxyClean. If that doesn't work, then do an overnight soak in a double-strength StarSan solution. If that doesn't get it all off, one more OxyClean soak usually does it. Use hot/warm water for all.

 

[AnOldUR]

In the 2015 guidelines, someone could propose a set of tasting guidelines for IPL under the Specialty IPA category, but until someone proposes a guideline as an established category, it's still an experimental style.

You guys are the judges, so know what you're talking about. I'm just trying to figure this out from what I've read. The quote below is from the proposed new guidelines and is how I interpreted the 2008 guidelines.

Entering a beer as a specific style will be a signal to judges that your beer will have certain identifiable components. If you added an ingredient, but it cannot be detected, then do not enter it in a style that requires the ingredient. If judges cannot perceive it, they will believe it is absent and deduct points accordingly.

I took that to mean that if you say it's a special IPA because you used a lager yeast, but the hops dominate the flavor and aroma profile (as they should in an IPA) to the extent that yeast character is not noticeable, you will lose points. But I've never had a IPL, so I'm only guessing that a lager yeast doesn't add anything other than an easier way to get a clean background for the hops. I could be totally wrong.

According to the quote above, even in the specialty category, beers are judged on sensory perception. It seems to me that using lager yeast in an IPA is an attempt to improve the perception of an existing style, not create a new one.

I apologize for the dead horse whooping. I'll stop now.

 

[Brettomomyces]

Are they storing the bottles cold at Station 26? I guess it's the same for everyone, but i hope so. I'm not sure it will be at a lagering temp, though.

I believe they will be, I judged there just a couple months ago and they have the space to hold them. And when we started the first flight they were cooooold.

 

[TobyG]

I took that to mean that if you say it's a special IPA because you used a lager yeast, but the hops dominate the flavor and aroma profile (as they should in an IPA) to the extent that yeast character is not noticeable, you will lose points.

What yeast character should be noticed in an IPL?

But I've never had a IPL, so I'm only guessing that a lager yeast doesn't add anything other than an easier way to get a clean background for the hops. I could be totally wrong.

I wouldn't consider using a lager yeast (and the ensuing process differences) to get a cleaner profile easier than using something like 1056 by any stretch.

Beers are judged on sensory perception. It seems to me that using lager yeast in an IPA is an attempt to improve the perception of an existing style, not create a new one.

Then why change the ingredient and the process? It's like saying that a Black IPA is just changing the color, so it's not a new style, or Belgian IPA is just changing the yeast, so it's not a new style. One would assume that if you are changing an ingredient, it's going to have some impact that differentiates it. If it makes the resulting beer cleaner and exhibits less ale yeast characteristics, it is changing the perception based on that 'cleaner' profile.

I apologize for the dead horse whooping. I'll stop now.

No worries. IPL is a relatively new offshoot of the style, so even on the BJCP forum there has been some discussion about it. Current consensus is what has been stated here: Category 23 under 2008 guidelines and category 21B (Specialty IPA) under the 2015 guidelines.

 

[Braufessor]

The best thing about NHC...... Quality Control

 

[Brettomomyces]

Stop reminding me I want more taps

 

[Braufessor]

Stop reminding me I want more taps

Don't be too jealous.... I use picnic taps

 

[TrickyDick]

Thanks for all the info folks!

What can we entrants expect our odds of progress to second round are? Obviously depends on number of entries in a particular category. But beyond that? How many IPA entries or any other category for that matter are sent on to round two?
Are there beers just screened for flaws or out of style, under carbed, etc like a coarse seive? What's the overall framework of the competition?

Also if you're being awarded a medal how far in advance will you have to make travel arrangements?? I doubt I'll be winning but again curious.

TD

 

[Yooper]

H

You have. Both Darwin18 and I are Certified.

Yep, me too, and I've judged at a couple final rounds of the NHC and some of the first rounds in the past as well.

I just had an IPL an hour ago- it was a Magic Hat IPL.

It was markedly a lager, although hoppy. It was a decent beer, not great, but definitely no ale characters at all and I would have found it way too 'clean' if it was in 14B.

There are actually quite a few certified level BJCP judges on this forum, and several nationals (mors and mabrungard come to mind, but I think of the woman from KC and draw a blank, sorry!) as well. There are probably more than I'm forgetting or don't know about. You can post on the forum without tripping over a BJCP judge!

 

[Brettomomyces]

I'll be certified in 2 weeks after I finish off another judging session

 

[NervousDad]

Thanks for all the info folks!

What can we entrants expect our odds of progress to second round are? Obviously depends on number of entries in a particular category. But beyond that? How many IPA entries or any other category for that matter are sent on to round two?
Are there beers just screened for flaws or out of style, under carbed, etc like a coarse seive? What's the overall framework of the competition?

Also if you're being awarded a medal how far in advance will you have to make travel arrangements?? I doubt I'll be winning but again curious.

TD

Just the winners of that group advances. Odds in the IPA category are tough. I think you only need a 30 to advance to the mini-BOS than it's decided then if it moves on to the finals.

I've had beers score 40's and did not make it. Last year I think I got a 38/39 and no luck in the IIPA/IPA category.