Next evolution in my brew setup?

[Javaslinger]

So I've got your basic 5 gal setup via BIAB going smoothly. I ferment in my cool basement which is a pretty steady 64-66F and bottle. I use gravity feed to flow through my counterflow into my fermentation bucket.
What is the best next step and how much am I looking at to make it happen?
1) Mash Tun - Probably least expensive, for 'true' all grain, but really BIAB is working fine other that I'm not able to precisely control my mash temp.
2) Fermentation temperature control apparatus - First to boost my finishing temp and ideally to cold crash before bottling. I'm losing a lost during the transfer for bottling. However, to cold crash I'm looking at some kind of fridge which is pricey. I could do the temp boost just by bringing it upstairs I suppose for the last 3 days or so before bottling where the house is more like 74F.
3) Kegging... Lots of advantages here, the main one being quicker access to my final product. But clearly the most expensive option as it requires not only kegging equipment but also a fridge. I guess it comes down to how inexpensively can one get into kegging and a fridge???
4) And I suppose another possibility is to tap a few more holes and set up quick disconnect lines to allow a pump setup. Right now I'm gravity draining out my ball valve into a counterflow chiller. Not sure what all the benefits of this would be.
Thanks for the input

 

[SlitheryDee]

I think first on my list would be temperature control, but I would just look around for a used fridge or freezer. I got my second minifridge that I'm now using as a fermentation chamber for $25. I added a $33 inkbird temp controller and had a complete chamber for less than $60. Depending on your needs and how long you're willing to wait, the fermentation chamber could actually turn out to be the cheapest thing on your list in addition to making the most difference in your beer.

In the meantime I would tackle the mash temperature problem. I feel that BIAB can be practically identical to other forms of mashing in terms of the quality of the final product, so I don't know if moving on to a dedicated mash tun will produce a notable improvement in your beer or not. You may not need to have to have a new mash tun so much as a better solution for insulating your kettle. I would look into that. I hear that a sleeping bag works well and is obviously quite cheap.

Kegging is last on my list because, while it does seem to make a great number of things easier and faster, it doesn't really impact the quality of the beer very much. By the time I start kegging I want all the other aspects of my process worked out so that I'm putting the best product possible into my kegs. In the meantime, I'll already be drinking better beer than I would have without the other improvements, it'll just be from bottles.

 

[enkamania]

I would go with #2.

 

[shanecb]

Without question the fermentation temperature control. It will make the biggest difference in beer quality.

 

[InTheBasement]

+1 on temp control. And my advice is to buy a larger freezer than you think you need. I wish I had. I am hobbled by my choice of a 7 CU ft. Wish I had gone 9 or 11.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

I spent a month shopping craiglist and picked up two mini-fridges - one for $30 and one for $40. Another $30 or so you can build a temp controller and you're good to go. Both fridges on maximum cold will go below 20° F, so more than enough to cold crash. For a single batch fermentation control, a mini-fridge is fine.

Next on my list is a chest freezer/keezer for lagering and kegging.

My estimates for a getting in to kegging is around $400-$500:
$100 three gauge dual body regulator (probably overkill to start, but will handle expansion). A cheaper regulator would work, but sooner or later I am going to want to pressure-carb one batch while serving another, so two different pressures is going to be a requirement soon.
$60 faucet (picnic taps are cheaper but not as sexy)x2
$40 for fittings and tubing
$100 for a freezer
$50 x 2 for kegs
$50-100 CO2 tank

A single-tap setup could probably be done for $300, but let's be honest: once you have one beer on tap, another is going to follow shortly.

 

[BrunDog]

2 then 4.

 

[Shepbrew]

Temp control first for beer quality, kegging as soon as possible after to improve so many other aspects of the process like cleaning, filling, cool factor, etc.

 

[Sailingeric]

Temp control. I got $100 chest freezer from Home Depot and hooked up a temp control. It will be 100 degrees this weekend but my IPA will be fermenting at a cool 64 degrees . Plus I love doing lagers!

 

[johnwpowell]

Temp control!!!

 

[Yesfan]

2 then 4.

......then 3, then 1.


You could add the mash tun before getting into kegging as it will be much cheaper. However, I think I would look into better ways to control the temp with BIAB and go with kegging before doing that.


Either way 3 then 1, or 1 then 3, fermentation temp control trumps them all.

2 ftw.

 

[oujens]

After using a cooler mash tun for a few years and now doing single vessel BIAB, I'm not sure I would rank a dedicated mash tun as a high priority unless you want to recirculate with a controller and have clear wort in the boil kettle. You can add reflectix and use a sleeping bag for insurance to keep your BIAB temp from dropping.

Ferm chamber and kegging would be my recommendation. I switched to fermenting in kegs and love the ability to pressure ferment, close transfer and spund.

 

[RM-MN]

1. Forget the insulated mash tun. If you mill your grains fine for BIAB, conversion is done before temperature drop is anything to worry about. Moving to a conventional mash tun is likely to cause an efficiency drop meaning you need to buy more grains to get the same beer. Get a bottle of iodine and check for conversion at various times during the mash to see how long it takes. Hint: Start taking your first conversion sample at 5 minutes. It may already be done if you mill fine.
2. Fermentation temperature control is a good place to start. How much money do you want to spend? You have a basement that stays at a good range for most fermentations, use it. Setting your fermenter in a tub of water is the cheapest way. Adding some ice to the water to keep it cooler only costs a tiny bit more. From there on up gets you better and better control at higher costs. I would probably put that extra money into ingredients.
3. Kegging cost more than you think. If you have a keg system you have the ongoing costs of refrigeration but also you have the ease of getting beer so you tend to drink more. Now you have to brew more often and buy more grains, plus you may find more friends that like to pull the tap handle.
4. Pumps take out some of the lifting. If you have back problems that may be a good option but otherwise I think it may be just another way to spend money. JMHO

 

[Ashevillain]

Freezers and kegs for both fermentation and serving. If your basement really is on point for ferms then no need for a 2nd freezer, just get a grip of kegs, a freezer to serve from, and you can ferment and serve from kegs. Not only do you benefit from closed sanitary, co2 purged transfers to the serving keg, it just makes things so damn easy from the time you close the lid on the primary keg until your pouring beer from the serving keg.

Can find nice kegs for 25-40, nothing wrong with pin-locks. Homebrewfinds often has deals on 5packs. Freezer you should get from craigslist for free-50.

 

[NSMikeD]

Permit me to offer another view. If you stick with ales, kegging kills two birds with one stone - coming from a guy who thinks fermentation temperatures is the most critical over looked aspect of home brewing.

Since your basement serves a massive ale fermentation chamber, you can ferment and condition there without any modifications. You can build a kegerator/keezer that can serve double duty for the cold crashing not to mention having your beer on tap.

Kegging is a major time saver. On Monday night, during the boil for one batch, I kegged another batch freeing up the fermentor in all of about 15 minutes. Think of your typical bottling day and cut that down to 20 minutes including washing, sanitizing and clean up.

At ambient temperature of 64°-66°, IMO, your beer will ferment just fine, since the actual beer temp will likely be closer to 70° thus not requiring a bump in temp. IMO, that's a luxury you can add later with a true fermentation chamber.

You can pick up a mini fridge for next to nothing and add a basic one way temperature controller for under $30 for lagers.

I do think a dedicated fermentation chamber is a great addition to fine tune your beer, I just think your basement does the job and a keg system can do the cold crash and make the home brew process a lot more enjoyable.

 

[kh54s10]

Temperature control. For cooling. Even though your basement is cool, your wart temperature gets higher. I would guess outside the ideal range of the yeast often. You may need to warm the beer up sometimes, but I don't do that as a rule. I usually just let it ferment in the mid sixties (wort temperature) until ready to package.

 

[NSMikeD]

Freezers and kegs for both fermentation and serving. If your basement really is on point for ferms then no need for a 2nd freezer, just get a grip of kegs, a freezer to serve from, and you can ferment and serve from kegs. Not only do you benefit from closed sanitary, co2 purged transfers to the serving keg, it just makes things so damn easy from the time you close the lid on the primary keg until your pouring beer from the serving keg.

Can find nice kegs for 25-40, nothing wrong with pin-locks. Homebrewfinds often has deals on 5packs. Freezer you should get from craigslist for free-50.

Temperature control. For cooling. Even though your basement is cool, your wart temperature gets higher. I would guess outside the ideal range of the yeast often. You may need to warm the beer up sometimes, but I don't do that as a rule. I usually just let it ferment in the mid sixties (wort temperature) until ready to package.

yes, the wart temperature will get higher, but there are number of articles that measure this and it's not likely the beer will raise more than 8 degrees putting him pretty close to where he wants to be at that point in the ferment anyway.

If you are fermenting in the mid-sixties, I would bet your beer is naturally doing what high tech fermentation chambers are doing.

 

[kh54s10]

yes, the wart temperature will get higher, but there are number of articles that measure this and it's not likely the beer will raise more than 8 degrees putting him pretty close to where he wants to be at that point in the ferment anyway.

If you are fermenting in the mid-sixties, I would bet your beer is naturally doing what high tech fermentation chambers are doing.

No, you do not want high temperatures at the height of fermentation when the exothermic reaction would do that. It is after most of the fermentation is finished to make sure it ferments all the way.
.
I am fermenting in the mid sixties because I use a fermentation chamber

 

[Ashevillain]

I agree with kh here. Though that doesn't mean people don't make beer they enjoy just fine using ~64 ambient temp. My experience tells me that even when I'm using those ambient temps I can get some significant and unwanted ester production. Fermenting at ~65, which is a good temp for most yeasts to put off a healthy ester profile without overdoing it, normally puts my ambient at ~58

This is without a doubt the biggest downside to fermenting in kegs, I cant actually get a temp probe inside. I attach to keg wall and insulate, but I always try to compensate just a little by going 2 degrees lower than I would if my probe were reading from inside the wort. Still the benefits are such that I will never go back to buckets/carboys.

 

[NSMikeD]

I think we are saying the same thing. My point was if the ambient temperature is 64°-66°, I don't think the beer will get above 70°-72° - and IMO, if you are using healthy yeast with the right amount, you won't be getting any noticeable unwanted esters. Nor will one need to raise the temperature to complete fermentation. I also think the period where the beer cools down to match the ambient temperature helps the yeast finish - similar to raising the temp.

Sorry if I was misleading.

 

[Ashevillain]

I've made some good beers at those temps, but I've also gotten unwanted esters at those temps. The strain will be important and you will be limited without further control. For example I wouldn't use something like s-04 or some other english yeasts that can potentially rip through wort at those temps.

For the OP the best compromise IMO is start with the serving freezer and use a swamp cooler for the first 3 days of fermentation. After that your ambient temp is perfectly fine. Then get a ferm chamber later if you feel you need it.

 

[SlitheryDee]

I've made some good beers at those temps, but I've also gotten unwanted esters at those temps. The strain will be important and you will be limited without further control. For example I wouldn't use something like s-04 or some other english yeasts that can potentially rip through wort at those temps.

For the OP the best compromise IMO is start with the serving freezer and use a swamp cooler for the first 3 days of fermentation. After that your ambient temp is perfectly fine. Then get a ferm chamber later if you feel you need it.

Yeah there are temp control solutions that cost next to nothing and work just as well as a ferm chamber. They just require a little attention every day. He needs temp control in some form though, be a swamp cooler, ice water tub, ferm chamber, etc. If he chooses one of the simpler options he certainly could move right into kegging if he wanted to.

 

[NSMikeD]

I agree with kh here. Though that doesn't mean people don't make beer they enjoy just fine using ~64 ambient temp. My experience tells me that even when I'm using those ambient temps I can get some significant and unwanted ester production. Fermenting at ~65, which is a good temp for most yeasts to put off a healthy ester profile without overdoing it, normally puts my ambient at ~58

This is without a doubt the biggest downside to fermenting in kegs, I cant actually get a temp probe inside. I attach to keg wall and insulate, but I always try to compensate just a little by going 2 degrees lower than I would if my probe were reading from inside the wort. Still the benefits are such that I will never go back to buckets/carboys.

I don't think unwanted esters is an issue with kegging - if they form, it will be in the fermentor not the keg.


Meanwhile, I brew 2.5 gallons batches so my ambient air needs to absorb 1/2 the heat energy from the beer to be as effective of a 5 gallon batch. I am also presuming that the theory under 72° will not produce noticeable esters - and my smaller batches may support this in my experience

 

[Ashevillain]

What I mean is I actually do primary fermentation inside a corny keg, I just attach a disconnect with a blowoff tube to the gas out post. Without custom work it would be a real pain trying to get a thermowell/probe into my keg fermentors.

That is very interesting considering the batch size and the absorption it requires from the ambient temps. This would make a great xBMT on Brulosophy!

 

[oujens]

What I mean is I actually do primary fermentation inside a corny keg, I just attach a disconnect with a blowoff tube to the gas out post. Without custom work it would be a real pain trying to get a thermowell/probe into my keg fermentors.

That is very interesting considering the batch size and the absorption it requires from the ambient temps. This would make a great xBMT on Brulosophy!

I think I saw somewhere that Jaybird custom made a corny lid with a thermowell. Not sure the cost, but I was thinking about checking on that myself.

 

[Ashevillain]

I think I saw somewhere that Jaybird custom made a corny lid with a thermowell. Not sure the cost, but I was thinking about checking on that myself.

Hmm, this is definitely something I'll be looking into. I always thought there would be a problem inserting/detaching the lid.

 

[Javaslinger]

What in the world is a swamp cooler?

Original Poster here... Thanks so much for all the input. I'm a bit surprised that fermentation control is the #1 hot pick. Frankly, I've only done 3 batches, but I haven't noticed any off flavors so I didn't think it an issue. Though I've done 2 IPA's and an Imperial Milk Stout.

It would seem that our first upgrade has been taken out of my hands. The wife is demanding a small fridge to get all this extra beer out of the kitchen fridge. So I'm looking at some minifridges on craigslist with the eye that they could eventually become a kegerator with some tweaking. I don't think it will be big enough to fit my fermentation bucket to use for cold crashing unfortunately.

I think next up will be a small chest freezer and temp controller for a fermentation chamber... Though my local homebrew buddies are poo pooing this as they have been making good beer for year and never bothered with diacetyl rises or cold crashing. I, being the chemist however, see the logic... My beer will one day not be good, but GREAT.

 

[TungstenBeer]

Temperature control. I stress to all my new brewer friends (many have tried at some point) that their first upgrade needs to be fermentation control. It's hard to convince, but it's easily the best bang for buck.

 

[whovous]

+1 on #2.

 

[beernutz]

#2 first then either 3 or 4 depending on your preference and budget.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Oh and about the fermenters fitting in mini fridges. Both of my chambers are mini fridges. The first one is a 4.4 CuFt freezerless model that had no trouble accommodating either of my fermenters after I removed the shelves from the door. I paid more for it than I should have though.

The second one I got for $25 because I noticed it sitting in someone's driveway and asked if they'd be willing to sell it. Of course I had no idea if a fermenter would fit into it, but I figured I could use it for cold storage if nothing else. It was a model with a freezer in it, but it turns out that there's no significant difference between a freezer model and a freezerless model other than the evaporator is turned up into a shelf that takes up the top quarter of the internal space in the fridge. All I had to do was carefully bend the shelf down so that it was against the back wall of the fridge, remove the door shelving, and install small block of wood in the floor to keep my bucket from leaning into the door, and I had another chamber that could hold either of my fermenters.