Newbie Stout

[cwhill]

OK, so my second beer is a Stout. Everything seemed to go well. The next moring after boiling etc and moving to carboy for fermentation the yeast was working hard. Lots and lots of foam out of the blow off. I designed one simialr to what I saw on hear using 3/4" PVC. Worked nicely and I was glad I didn't have a little air lock as that would have surely blown off. OK so now for some questions if anyone cares to throw in their two cents. My OG was 1.047. Most of the bubbling has already subsided but it has only been 3 days. I figured I would check gravity in another day or two. I don't know exactly what I should be aiming for in FG but I was guesing around 1.015? Also should I let the wort sit in the fermenter for a couple weeks? I've been reading so much on here but can't seem to get a reason as to why you wouldn't just bottle once you were near your FG. Is there a benefit to letting it stay in the fermenter for more than a week? Any thoughts on the matter would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for all the info you folks post on here. Makes for some great reading and I am completely hooked!

 

[Ooompa Loompa]

Depending on your yeast I would guess a final gravity of around 1.012 or so, but without knowing your yeast that is just a guess. The reason behind leaving it in the fermenter for longer is that even though the yeast is pretty much done doing its work the flavors are still coming together, and there is still a tiny amount of yeast activity, although maybe not on a noticable level.

Glad to hear you're hooked!!! It truely is an enjoyable hobby/addiction.

 

[cwhill]

Thanks for the feedback. I forgot to post the yeast I used. I'll look tonight and post it. I thought that bottling achieved the same results as letting it sit in the fermenter. Am I wrong on this? Does the fermenter provide something that bottling doesn't?
Thanks.

 

[gruversm]

Is it normal to only use a Blow Off tube for stronger beers?

 

[Yooper]

Thanks for the feedback. I forgot to post the yeast I used. I'll look tonight and post it. I thought that bottling achieved the same results as letting it sit in the fermenter. Am I wrong on this? Does the fermenter provide something that bottling doesn't?
Thanks.

Well, leaving it in the fermenter a while accomplishes a couple of things, as Loompa said. The yeast still work to "clean up" after themselves, actually digesting their own waste products, like diacetyl. That happens best while the beer is still on the yeast cake. Once you bottle, restart a mini-fermentation by adding priming sugar to carbonate, but otherwise the yeasts are just about done.

Another benefit is that the beer will condition, and clear up. All the "gunk" stuff will drop to the bottom of the fermenter, and you'll siphon the good beer off of it. If you bottle early, you'll just have more sediment in the bottle than you normally would.

The flavors will continue to meld together in the fermenter after fermentation has finished, too.

I can't think of any reason to bottle early, though.

 

[Yooper]

Is it normal to only use a Blow Off tube for stronger beers?

Usually, but if you pitch on a yeast cake, or have a vigorous fermentation with a wheat beer, you can still need one. If you are trying to ferment a 5 gallon batch in a 6 gallon carboy, you'll probably want to use one, no matter how "big" the beer. I've used a blow off tube once or twice in over 100 batches, but I use a large primary pail with plenty of headspace.

 

[chthonik]

For any beer where you expect a rigorous fermentation in a carboy, or if there isn't a good amount of headspace no matter what you're fermenting in. If you just use an airlock and the kraussen gets pretty high, you risk clogging the airlock with hops, or even popping off and flying across the room. Not the end of the world, just a bit of a PITA. My buddies and I always use a blow-off tube for primaries (we use 6.5 gallon carboys).

 

[gruversm]

Thanks, guys! This is why I'm a member of this board!!

 

[cwhill]

Well, leaving it in the fermenter a while accomplishes a couple of things, as Loompa said. The yeast still work to "clean up" after themselves, actually digesting their own waste products, like diacetyl. That happens best while the beer is still on the yeast cake. Once you bottle, restart a mini-fermentation by adding priming sugar to carbonate, but otherwise the yeasts are just about done.

Another benefit is that the beer will condition, and clear up. All the "gunk" stuff will drop to the bottom of the fermenter, and you'll siphon the good beer off of it. If you bottle early, you'll just have more sediment in the bottle than you normally would.

The flavors will continue to meld together in the fermenter after fermentation has finished, too.

I can't think of any reason to bottle early, though.

Thank you very much. Those are some great thoughts. So it doesn't sound like it is unusual to leave a beer in the carboy/primary for a few weeks? My fermentation was going very strong for 2 days and now has almost completely stopped. No hurrying to bottle this stout then sounds like the right plan.

 

[cwhill]

For any beer where you expect a rigorous fermentation in a carboy, or if there isn't a good amount of headspace no matter what you're fermenting in. If you just use an airlock and the kraussen gets pretty high, you risk clogging the airlock with hops, or even popping off and flying across the room. Not the end of the world, just a bit of a PITA. My buddies and I always use a blow-off tube for primaries (we use 6.5 gallon carboys).

I'm glad I made the 3/4" PVC Blow off. It works nicely on a 6.5 carboy. My first batch was a summer type ale that bubbled along nicely for days through the airlock. After reading on this board I decided to make a blow-off to have just in case. Well the current brew (stout) blew the airlock off and made quite a mess as I didn't discover it until I got up the next morning. So on went the blow-off pipe. Man did this batch bubble hard even through the big blow-off tube.

 

[Ooompa Loompa]

Thank you very much. Those are some great thoughts. So it doesn't sound like it is unusual to leave a beer in the carboy/primary for a few weeks? .

Nope, not at all just. But I wouldn't reccomend letting it sit any longer then 6 to 8 weeks at the max. After this time period there is a possibility of autolysis (basically where your yeast cells begin to break down), which leaves some pretty nasty flavors in your beer.

 

[comj49]

I am thinking of making a stout as my next beer, what are the thoughts on how long to leave it in the primary, secondary (and/or bottles)? I have read as high as 6 months, if so i need to get started!!

 

[cwhill]

what are the thoughts on how long to leave it in the primary, secondary (and/or bottles)? I have read as high as 6 months, if so i need to get started!!

Based on what I've read, my plans are to leave it on the yeast cake (in the primary) for a few weeks. Probably 3 weeks. Then go straight to bottle.

 

[comj49]

how long in the bottles? I am getting the impression that more is better possibly 2 months?

 

[Ooompa Loompa]

I am thinking of making a stout as my next beer, what are the thoughts on how long to leave it in the primary, secondary (and/or bottles)? I have read as high as 6 months, if so i need to get started!!

If it is just a normal stout with a starting gravity in the 1.050 area then there is no need to leave it nearly that long. A normal stout should come out great just using the 1 - 2 - 3 method (1 week primary, 2 weeks secondary, 3 weeks bottle). Or you can just skip the secondary and go 2 or 3 weeks primary then bottle and let sit for at least 3 weeks. If it is a high gravity stout (Russian Imperial Stout) then you will need a lot more time. Probably something like at least 2 weeks primary, a month or two secondary, and several months in the bottle before it's ready and really good.

 

[comj49]

I was thinking of doing an Oatmeal stout. I don't believe they are a high gravity style, but it will only be my third brew, so i am still learning. Anyone have a really good oatmeal extract kit they can recommend, since i really don't have anyone local to get ingrediants. I am not ready for Ag, yet. I have ordered everything from Midwest so far, but it seems alot of people are using Austin. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

 

[tranceamerica]

my MO lately has to been to use a blow off hose - always - and to leave the beer in the primary for 3 weeks, then bottle.

if I am not ready to bottle at 3 weeks, I'll throw it into a secondary at that point. I think it can sit in the secondary pretty much forever - but I've never tried it LOL.

 

[maltyone]

I was thinking of doing an Oatmeal stout. I don't believe they are a high gravity style, but it will only be my third brew, so i am still learning. Anyone have a really good oatmeal extract kit they can recommend, since i really don't have anyone local to get ingrediants. I am not ready for Ag, yet. I have ordered everything from Midwest so far, but it seems alot of people are using Austin. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

i jsut got the oatmeal stout kit from austins and im gonna brew it this sat. cant waiiiit!! so i cant quite let ya know how it is yet but seems like a great recipe!

 

[comj49]

Let me know how it turns out, i just had a samuel smiths oatmeal stout yesterday and am really excited about making some!

 

[cwhill]

OK, so it has been 17 days since I pitched the yeast in this stout. As I said the fermentation was fierce the the first 2 days. I'm not in any real hurry to bottle so I'm just letting it do its thing as I've read here on the boards. Today I took my first gravity reading and it was only .021. I was expecting it to be much lower by now and actually closer to my goal of around .012. Is this taking too long to go down? I assume it needs to be lower before bottling. I plan on letting it go until next week but as I said after 17 days I thought it would have been lower. Am I off base on my thinking? Is there something wrong? Starting gravity was .047. As always thanks for any thoughts.

P.S. The carboy has been kept at a pretty solid 68-70F.

 

[Ooompa Loompa]

You're right, it sounds like it probably has a bit more to go, but if you post the recipe it will be easier to tell. If it is stuck I would rouse the yeast by gently swirling (not shaking) the beer, or by gently stirring the beer, making sure to you are getting to the bottom to get the yeast back up into suspension.

 

[PUD]

doesn't the brewmasters bible recommend leaving your beer in primary for 12-14 days? anyways, that's what i've been doing lately instead of 1-1-3. seems like i was rushing my beers doing that.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

The most common method of time-based beer making is the 1-2-3 method. Primary for 1 week, rack to another carboy/fermenter for 2 weeks, bottle, then age 3 weeks. It's a great starting point. However, stout needs more time to age than most other ales. Also, a second fermenter (secondary, clearing tank, etc) isn't entirely necessary. When bulk aging beer, the yeast tend to keep working, slowly "cleaning" the beer of off flavors. Some VERY successful brewers leave their beer in the primary fermenter for up to 8 weeks before bottling or kegging directly from the primary. I did just that with my last batch of RIS, and it turned out very well. My point? Don't be in a hurry to rack your beer or to bottle it. Wait at least 4 weeks, regardless of whether you rack it to a secondary container or not. As always, use specific gravity readings as a guide to your beer's progress.

 

[cwhill]

My point? Don't be in a hurry to rack your beer or to bottle it..

Thanks for some words of wisdom Yuri. I was a little anxious last night thinking something might be wrong but good to hear that I should not be in a hurry as you said.

Ooompa, I'll post the recipe tonight. Thank you.

~Bill

 

[Bob]

OK, so it has been 17 days since I pitched the yeast in this stout. As I said the fermentation was fierce the the first 2 days. I'm not in any real hurry to bottle so I'm just letting it do its thing as I've read here on the boards. Today I took my first gravity reading and it was only .021. I was expecting it to be much lower by now and actually closer to my goal of around .012. Is this taking too long to go down? I assume it needs to be lower before bottling. I plan on letting it go until next week but as I said after 17 days I thought it would have been lower. Am I off base on my thinking? Is there something wrong? Starting gravity was .047. As always thanks for any thoughts.

P.S. The carboy has been kept at a pretty solid 68-70F.

I'm glad you're going to post the recipe, because that'll have an impact on the following:

Your final gravity is dependent on more than your yeast's theoretical attenuation percentage. You must also take into consideration your mash.

Yeah, I said mash. That's how they make extract, after all! If the extract manufacturer mashed high, there'll be more unfermentable dextrins in the resulting extract, which will drive final gravity higher than expected. Moreover, dark extracts tend to contain more dextrinous matter than pale, due to the amounts of specialty grains added to the mash at the extract plant.

You have no real idea how low this could finish. You could leave it in the secondary for six years and it could sit at 1.020.

The moral of this story? Take gravity readings over three consecutive days. If the gravity doesn't move, it's done. It ain't getting any lower, so you might as well package it. But take notes as to what brand of extract you used, so you can keep that in mind for next time!

I will emphasize this very important point, in red (I wish I could put bells on it):

The only, singular, one reliable way to tell if your ferment is over is by taking gravity readings. If the readings are unchanged after three consecutive samples, your ferment is over.



Actually, 1.021 isn't that bad for a stout. I like my stouts to go from ~1.050 to ~1.020; gives a nice, full body to the beer. I think a stout that goes down to 1.010 - 1.012 would be so dry as to be unbalanced.

Cheers,

Bob

 

[cwhill]

Good information, Bob. Thank you. Here is the recipe for the stout. Let me know what you think. I didn't realize I should take reading that quickly once the I think I'm near the end of fermentation. I will take one tomorrow and see where it stands.
3.3 lb Mountmellick's Hopped Irish Stout Extract
3 lbs Dark DME
1oz cascade for boil
1 oz cascade for flavor
Yeast came with the Mountmellick's Stout

Again thanks for your thoughts!
~Bill

 

[Bob]

Now we're getting somewhere! Thanks for posting the recipe.

First, dark extracts tend to have higher levels of residual sugars post-fermentation.

Second, the yeast that comes with the "kit cans" you should never use. You can never tell how old it is, or how many viable cells you're going to get out of it. Spend the extra couple of dollars on a packet of fresh dried yeast while you're at the HBS. It's your beer; the extra expense is worth it, is it not?

I'm willing to stake a bet that this concatenation of circumstances is what's causing your high finishing gravity.

Here's a tip - if you do end up with yeast under the tin's lid, save it for for yeast nutrient - dump it in the boiling wort about ten minutes before flameout. Yeast are some bloody-minded little cannibals, and can metabolize their dead comrades to become healthier, more robust beasties.

Cheers,

Bob

 

[cwhill]

I wondered about the yeast when I bought the can. The in store recipe called for that can and obviousl the other ingredients. I asked the local brew guy about whether I should just get a seperate yeast and he said I shouldn't have any problem with it. He commented that they move alot of that stuff and he verified the date on it. I still should have gotten the yeast I guess. I will say that this batch fermented like crazy the first few days. I needed a blow off tube for 3 days solid before I could even consider an air lock. Tomorow I'll take a reading (didn't get the chance today) and post what I had. Thanks again!

 

[Bosh]

As a lot of people have said, leaving a beer in a primary can be a very good thing. I normally keep my beer in primary a while and a I got really lazy with my Dunkel and didn't bottle it for 6 weeks and it came out amazing, far better than the beers that I made earlier that were only in primary for two weeks.

As long as the yeast don't start dying on you, keeping it in the primary for longer is all good. Personally unless you want a really clear beer, I don't see much reason for using a secondary at all for most beers.

 

[ruppe]

6 weeks in the primary? I thought the unwritten rule was no longer than 2 weeks, assuming near completion of fermentation, to avoid off-flavors from the yeast bed. I have gone as long as 3 weeks due to time constraints with bottling and had no issues, but just figured I got lucky. Has the knowledge changed?

 

[Nerro]

Never forget that a lot of the "knowledge" that people spew on the internet is no better than unsubstantiated ranting. The primary reason that people want to take their beer off the yeast cake seems to be that they fear autolysis of the yeast (yeast cells rupturing and releasing crap from inside).

If it works over six weeks for one yeast it PROBABLY will for other yeast strains as well. A lot of people don't even bother with the siphoning any more. The risk of contamination is not worth it.

 

[Willy Boner]

I've been leaving my brews in the primary for 3 to 4 weeks with good results so far. To the OP, you asked about an oatmeal stout recipe? I took my recipe form Bader Beer and Wine Supply's website. They have some very good extract with specialty grain recipes that you might be interested in as your next step. I used the Irish Creme Stout as my first brew I did over a year ago. It came out very good and I've been experimenting ever since a little at a time. For an oatmeal stout I just substituted flaked oats for the flaked barley. I also added a 1/2# of chocolate malt grains. I usually use dry extact instead of liquid. I also use a dry yeast (Safale 04 or Nottinghams). HAPPY BREWING!

 

[ruppe]

Thanks, Nerro. for setting me straight. I'm old, and old school, basing my "knowledge" on books I read when I first started, not stuff spewed on the internet. I don't brew enough, and get here less, but I'm glad when I do that I can learn. I'm sure the quality of yeast, as well as the experience of others has put my previous assumption to rest. My time is limited with 2 active teenagers in sports. I feel better that my timing as far as brewing has been expanded.

 

[WhyTee]

As a lot of people have said, leaving a beer in a primary can be a very good thing. I normally keep my beer in primary a while and a I got really lazy with my Dunkel and didn't bottle it for 6 weeks and it came out amazing

I'm with you, except most of my beers end up getting the "lazy" treatment. I'm by no means an expert or super experienced in brewing but I would guess my last 2 batches spent 6 weeks+ in primary without any problems. I had left my 3rd batch ever in the primary for close to 4 months and people still ask me to make it again because it turned out really well.

Has anyone ever experienced autolysis? If you have, how long did you let your beer sit?