Newbie Question: When to transfer to secondary?

[oreet]

My wife and I just started getting into homebrewing. She's making mead, and I'm starting out with cider.

Right now, I've got 2 1-gallon batches of cider going, and I had a question about when to transfer to the secondary.

Right now, both batches are in brewing buckets with vapor locks.

One batch is just 1 gallon of no preservatives, uv pasturized cider and 1 packet of Lalvin K1V-1116 yeast, and 1 tsp of a yeast nutrient (unsure off-hand which one I used, but it called for 1 tsp per gallon).

The other batch is 1 gallon of the same cider, 1 packet of the same yeast, 1 tsp of the same yeast nutrient, and about 1/2 pound of brown sugar.

These were both started on Sunday (Feb 8) and by Monday evening both were vapor locks were bubbling. Both are still bubbling now.

So at what point should I plan on transferring both to my glass carboys? Do I wait until the bubbles stop? Is there a time period? Is there another indicator?

I don't want to make either of these batches carbonated, but I'd like at least the non-brown sugar batch to be sweet, and the brown sugar batch to be spiced. Is it a little late to add the spices (cinnamon sticks, ginger, nutmeg, and whole cloves)?

 

[Maylar]

I typically rack to secondary when the specific gravity gets below 1.010. Depending on yeast and temperature that's usually about 2 weeks. Bubbling will have slowed way down but not stopped.

You do have a hydrometer, right?

 

[DaMonkey]

1-Gallon of cider seems to ferment faster than larger quantities even when I use 1/2 packet of yeast.

A good rule of thumb is to wait for the bubbles to stop which in larger quantities is 2 weeks. Might be sooner for 1-gallon. If you have a hydrometer check after the bubbling stops if its at FG of 1.000 or lower then you are good to go. I usually wait for the yeast to drop so its good to just wait 2 weeks. Don't wait too long since you are currently in a bucket with a lot of head space.

You can add spices in Primary or Secondary. I like to do it in the primary because the CO2 mixes everything up and then in secondary I don't have a bunch of stuff floating around. But you can do it either way. I have read that you should use whole spices either way. Apparently ground spices make a mess? I never tried to use them so I am not sure.

Sugar is added right before bottling. If you do use sugar and don't want it to be carbonated make sure that you use sulfites and sorbate to kill the yeast. Other wise you are at risk for bottle bombs.

 

[bernardsmith]

wines (including ciders and meads) improve with aging but aging demands that there should be no headroom. But while the most active fermentation is ongoing , headroom is beneficial and perhaps necessary, so you want to rack into a smaller container (what folk typically refer to as a secondary fermenter (and then confuse the secondary fermenter with secondary FERMENTATION... but that is another story) when the gravity drops lower than 1.010. Neither time nor bubbles per minute are meaningful metrics. Specific gravity is the only useful metric. You really need an hydrometer. It is perhaps the most useful tool that will be in your tool kit.

 

[DaMonkey]

wines (including ciders and meads) improve with aging but aging demands that there should be no headroom. But while the most active fermentation is ongoing , headroom is beneficial and perhaps necessary, so you want to rack into a smaller container (what folk typically refer to as a secondary fermenter (and then confuse the secondary fermenter with secondary FERMENTATION... but that is another story) when the gravity drops lower than 1.010. Neither time nor bubbles per minute are meaningful metrics. Specific gravity is the only useful metric. You really need an hydrometer. It is perhaps the most useful tool that will be in your tool kit.

While in primary with an airlock and any amount of headroom after fermentation while the airlock is still bubbling there is no need to worry about head space. Why? Because the head space is CO2 which is good. After the bubbling stops then no more CO2 is being created but it is still in the head space. You only have to worry about head space when you introduce oxygen during the transfer to the secondary.

So there is absolutely no reason to transfer to secondary at 1.010 unless you don't seal your primary which is a bad idea in my opinion.

Transferring after the bubbling stops (i.e. no more CO2 being created [i.e. fermentation is complete]) is a GREAT indicator of when fermentation is complete. While not 100% accurate its a great tool to use to know when you should measure your specific gravity. However if you don't have a hydrometer its your only way to know that fermentation is complete. Knowing the days fermentation generally takes is for knowledge only, watching bubbles and then measuring specific gravity is how you I suggest an individual should determine fermentation is complete.

 

[Frognostic]

Last cider I made I left for two weeks in the primary fermentor.

In the past, due to a lack of secondary fermentation vessels, I left it in primary for around a month.

 

[oreet]

Thanks for all the info everyone. I do not have a hydrometer, but I will go out to get one today.

I have not noticed any bubbles since Thursday (it's saturday now) so I am going to check it, and then prepare to transfer it to a 1-gallon glass carboy.

 

[jiggs_casey]

The term 'secondary fermenter' is really kind of misleading. All of your fermentation should be completed in the primary. In your case, you can use use your secondary, and just rack (transfer) your cider right in on top of your ingredients. Just make sure your fermentation is actually complete. Use a hydrometer and take readings over the course of a few days. If the readings stay the same, fermentation is done. If not, seal your fermenter back up and wait another week.

 

[Maylar]

The reason for racking to secondary is to get the cider off the lees. I have had ciders that had a "yeasty" flavor when I've let it sit in primary too long.

Starting at a typical 1.050 and racking to secondary at 1.010 or below leaves behind an inch or more of lees, depending on your juice and yeast. Secondary fermentation then will take it to whatever FG that the yeast finishes to and leave only a small amount of lees behind, and the cider will be clear enough for bottling.

For long term aging I will rack a third time, always topping the level up to the top of the jug.

 

[brewtoplease]

What liquid do you top off with?

 

[DaMonkey]

What liquid do you top off with?

I have been fermenting in larger batches and putting it in smaller carboys during racking.

You can top up with cider or purified water.

 

[Maylar]

What liquid do you top off with?

Ideally, with some fully fermented cider from a previous batch saved for that purpose. Cider that used the same yeast, of course.

I've been doing 3 gallon batches. After primary it gets racked to 2 full one gallon jugs for secondary, plus about 1/2 gallon. The small jug gets racked a third time to a 750 ml wine bottle that becomes my "top up" for the next batch.