Newb alert! Dumb keg question inside!

[UnaBonger]

I have acquired a commercially made dorm fridge type single tap kegerator and I just hooked up my first keg... I'm noticing that when I pour, the pour starts great, foams like a bastard for a second or two, then finishes great... After looking inside I think I see where my problem is... I think my beer line is too long. I haven't measured the length but I'd guess 4-5 feet. It appears to go straight up from the keg connection, loop down and go back up into the tower. I can see where there is a gap in the beer in the line (clear hose).

I'm guessing my pour starts with the beer already in the line above the bubble, I get foam when it hits the tap hits the bubble, then I get beer again...

I guess my question is, is there a proper length for the beer line in this type of kegerator? Can I just shorten the hose so it goes right from the keg connection into the tap with no slack?

I also have the regulator set @ 10 PSI. Bueno, no bueno?

 

[Fingers]

When that happens I find that it tends to be CO2 coming out of solution for various reasons. Usually the culprit is warming of the keg or line. Could you have a warm spot or radical temperature fluctuations in the keg? Secondly, if you overcarbed and are trying to reduce the CO2 volume, it will also tend to come in the beer in the line when the pressure in the keg drops.

Oh, by the way, your line should be a little longer than 4 -5 feet. Mine are 10 feet at 12 psi.

 

[iamopie2]

Sound like warming to me too. When the garage gets really hot in the summer, i have to pour out the first half pint before i get cold beer and no spitting foam

 

[UnaBonger]

I dont see how it can be warming. The kegerastor is inside the house and everything is inside the kegerator. I'll investigate further though.

It's a commercial keg so I can't see carbing being an issue.

Safe to assume though that the length or the loop in it are the source of the problem?

 

[Fingers]

The loop is no problem, but you want to size your tubing so that the pressure at the output is at about 1 psi. If you run a search for keg line balancing you'll find some calculations for the size of line you're using and the pressure in the keg.

That being said, an unbalanced keg will foam at the OUTPUT of the tap, not in the line. If the CO2 is coming out of solution in the line, the length is not the problem.

Any chance it's a frost free fridge that's warming up the keg or line during the defrost cycle? Try looping the line away from the walls of the fridge.

 

[shortyjacobs]

I dont see how it can be warming. The kegerastor is inside the house and everything is inside the kegerator. I'll investigate further though.

It's a commercial keg so I can't see carbing being an issue.

Safe to assume though that the length or the loop in it are the source of the problem?

Safe to assume that neither length nor loop are the problem. If anything, you need a LONGER line, (as stated above). I too use 10 ft.

I wonder....what's the keg carbed to?

 

[hercher]

I don't think you need a longer line - simply reduce your psi. Try dropping it down to 5 or 6 psi, then experiment from there.

I can pretty much guarantee you have a warm spot in your line. You mentioned you could see a spot in the line with no beer -- start there. Is that inside the tower? Making sure none of the line is in contact with the walls is a good idea, as well.

The way you are describing your pour, I'm guessing that the first part of the pour is above the warm spot, then as more beer passes that point, it sufficient chills the line so that it stops foaming. Does it act like this with each beer that is poured? Or if you are pouring two or three at once, does it only behave this way on the first?

 

[UnaBonger]

I've adjusted my PSI down to 8 and put the fridge on its coolest setting for a few days now. I'm still seeing the same problem...

Here's what I'm seeing -

I'm going to be swapping out this commercial keg with a homebrew one in a few weeks, converting the kegorator to a ball lock system getting rid of the sanke connection. At that time, I'll add some hose length and see if thats it. If not, I'll try adding a fan to move air around. Can't think of anything else to try...

I'd attempt to lengthen the line now but cant see how to re-attach a new beer line to the sanke coupler.

Any thoughts?

 

[malkore]

to me it looks like beer is draining out of the line and back into the keg. I let my lines sit for weeks sometimes and even with 8 feet of beer line, I never get more than an inch of trapped gas.

 

[UnaBonger]

That's what it looks like to me as well...

Once I open the tap, the beer flows fine after the foam of coarse. I'm also noticing that it's happening with each glass. It seems like the beer immediately falls back into the keg. This being the first keg on a new system, I'm just not sure where to start troubleshooting.

 

[springer]

unless the tap or spear is defective the beer can't flow that way. Reason being is the pickup is at the bottom of the keg and the CO2 pressure on the top would be pushing down the beer cannot overtake the CO2 pressure.

No I do have a Sanke tap that will let CO2 into the beer line, it bubbles like crazy but the beer doesn't drain back. It's displaced by the CO2 because the gas would rather escape than push down on the beer , path of least resistance. I believe the inner o-ring that separates the gas from the liquid on the tap is damaged . Never really looked at it I have like 10 of them

 

[broadbill]

I've adjusted my PSI down to 8 and put the fridge on its coolest setting for a few days now. I'm still seeing the same problem...

Here's what I'm seeing -

I'm going to be swapping out this commercial keg with a homebrew one in a few weeks, converting the kegorator to a ball lock system getting rid of the sanke connection. At that time, I'll add some hose length and see if thats it. If not, I'll try adding a fan to move air around. Can't think of anything else to try...

I'd attempt to lengthen the line now but cant see how to re-attach a new beer line to the sanke coupler.

Any thoughts?

Its not so much that the refrigerator needs to be colder, its that relatively colder beer (located at bottom of keg)is traveling through a warmer line (at the top of the keg). This causes the beer in the line to warm up and release CO2=foaming. You may still have foaming with a colder refrigerator because the temperature gradient will still be there.

A fan would dissipate the gradient is you had a way of rigging it up, otherwise, you may just have expect the first pour of the day to be a bit foamy.

Good luck!

 

[UnaBonger]

I plan on rigging up a fan, but it's happening with every pour.

 

[hercher]

If you are pouring multiple glasses at one time and still getting the problem, it is less likely that warming is the problem. Even with a temperature gradient, once the beer chills the line out on the first glass, the second (assuming there is no delay in pouring the second) should pour properly. I just can't see that the line would warm up that quickly.

The lines should stay completely full of beer. Try an experiment: try increasing the CO2 pressure. It's just a guess, and may not work, but I would try it if only to rule it out as a solution.

 

[hercher]

Oh, an by the way, you've mistitled this post. This was not a dumb question since no one has come up with a successful solution yet.

 

[Richardwhittaker]

I have the exact same problem with an apfelwien (the bubbles in the line) I think I may have over carbed it as I get foam from start to finish. It was the first thing that I kegged. I have an Irish stout that Kegged and carbed using the burst method, it pours fairly well.

RIchard

 

[Fingers]

I accidentally left one of my kegs on the 30 psi regulator for too long. It overcarbed the Oktoberfest and has caused me to have exactly that same problem. I bled the excess pressure off the top of the keg, but of course there is still an excess of CO2 in the beer itself that will come out and increase the pressure again. So I turned the CO2 completely off for a few days until I was pouring just a trickle. I turned the gas back on to 12 psi and it still foams in the line.

I had two kegs of the Oktoberfest and the first one was carbed properly and poured properly. I'm thinking that if I'd bled the gas off completely to where the beer was flat and then re-carbed it would have done the trick. Personally, the little bit of foam I get at first pour isn't that big a deal that I'd want to start over with this keg so I've just been treating it as a minor annoyance. Any chance this is your problem?

 

[shortyjacobs]

I accidentally left one of my kegs on the 30 psi regulator for too long. It overcarbed the Oktoberfest and has caused me to have exactly that same problem. I bled the excess pressure off the top of the keg, but of course there is still an excess of CO2 in the beer itself that will come out and increase the pressure again. So I turned the CO2 completely off for a few days until I was pouring just a trickle. I turned the gas back on to 12 psi and it still foams in the line.

I had two kegs of the Oktoberfest and the first one was carbed properly and poured properly. I'm thinking that if I'd bled the gas off completely to where the beer was flat and then re-carbed it would have done the trick. Personally, the little bit of foam I get at first pour isn't that big a deal that I'd want to start over with this keg so I've just been treating it as a minor annoyance. Any chance this is your problem?

+1 on this. This is why I asked what the keg was originally carbed at, since I have found if I push a keg at lower pressure than carbonation pressure, it has this problem. (i.e., if I overcarb, this happens).

BTW, on a cornie, to fix overcarbing, shut off gas, vent CO2 pressure, shake keg, vent pressure, etc. It's like the reverse of shake'n'carbing.

 

[UnaBonger]

It's a commercially made Oktoberfest so I'm assuming it came carbed and I just hooked it up at 10 PSI. Since this is my first kegerator experience, I'm clueless as to where to start troubleshooting.

Thanks for all the replies though!

 

[shortyjacobs]

It's a commercially made Oktoberfest so I'm assuming it came carbed and I just hooked it up at 10 PSI. Since this is my first kegerator experience, I'm clueless as to where to start troubleshooting.

Thanks for all the replies though!

Right, I'm wondering if it's carbed at, say, 15 psi. It also depends on your fridge temp. Really, you want to know what VOLUME of CO2 it was carbed to, then look up that carbonation level on a carb chart at your fridge temp and set your reg at that pressure. Then you are dispensing at the same pressure it's carbed at.

Failing that: Just start increasing pressure by 1 or 2 psi at a time and pouring pints until you stop getting the air bubble after waiting 30 minutes or whatever.

 

[Richardwhittaker]

I fixed my problem! What was happening was the lip at the top of the dip tube was bent so I was not getting a good seal. So when I pored I was getting a mixture of gas and and liquid. This caused turbulance which created foam. I fixed it by pulling the dip tube (after releasing the pressure) and removing the dip tube o-ring. I then placed the o-ring back in the keg and used a small hammer to straiten the lip. I then put it all back together and perfect pour!

 

[UnaBonger]

I up'd the PSI to 10 and it got a little better... Dare I go to 12 with such a short line? I'll try tonight and report back...

 

[JesseRC]

I had a keg that was over carbed and had warm lines. The 2 conditions caused this same thing. Just cause they are commercial kegs doesnt mean they cant be over carbed.