New Williams O2 regulator

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This is the tank I use (although I buy it at the local hardware store, not Amazon).http://www.amazon.com/Worthington-Cylinder-1-4Oz-Oxygen-Torch/dp/B000WEIJRA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1377097444&sr=8-1&keywords=BernzOmatic+1.4+Oz.+Oxygen+Fuel+Cylinder

Based on the information provided, it looks like the valve on the disposable tanks is CGA 601. The new regulator on Williams' site says the connector is a CGA 540. My guess would be that you need a permanent, refillable tank. I have not priced them but may ask the guy at the gas shop the next time I have my C02 tank tested.

I'd like to eventually go to something where I can actually measure the flow of O2. Currently, I use the older Williams rig that just fits to the disposable tank. I turn up the gas until I get what looks to be a moderate flow, then give it a 60 count (or until the beer starts to foam out of the Better Bottle if that happens first)
 
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I was wondering if anyone has inside information about this

http://www.williamsbrewing.com/OXYGEN-REGULATOR-FOR-WELDING-TANK-P3476C106.aspx

If I understand this correctly, it is only for use with larger oxygen tanks and not the small benzomatic-type tanks? I'd love better flow control but am a bit worried about a costly upgrade to a new tank etc.

Thanks

Correct. For the small cylinders you will need this one http://www.williamsbrewing.com/OXYGEN-REGULATOR-P700.aspx.
 
I have the small Williams regulator, but would love to be able to regulate the flow for the sake of consistency. There really is no way to make the flow consistent with the the small regulator - which is what drew my attention to this new regulator they have
 
You can control the flow on the smaller tanks with a flow meter. I got one off eBay for about $15.



image-2909397964.jpg
 
I bought the big oxygen system. Oxygen is much much cheaper with the 20 cf tank. Unfortunately it was not available without the tank as it is now. Most places swap bottles as they do not have the safety facilities to fill, so I had to swap out my new bottle for a used tank filled with 02. Refills are about $25. That's about the same amount of oxygen as 19 of the 1.4 ounce disposable cylinders. I don't know what the deposit would be where I trade my tanks. The regulator goes 4, 2, 1, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16 & 1/32 as I recall.
 
I bought the big oxygen system. Oxygen is much much cheaper with the 20 cf tank. Unfortunately it was not available without the tank as it is now. Most places swap bottles as they do not have the safety facilities to fill, so I had to swap out my new bottle for a used tank filled with 02. Refills are about $25. That's about the same amount of oxygen as 19 of the 1.4 ounce disposable cylinders. I don't know what the deposit would be where I trade my tanks. The regulator goes 4, 2, 1, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16 & 1/32 as I recall.

WOW! Oxygen must be in short supply in NY! I pay less than $10 ($8.70 as of yesterday) for a 20cf exchange.....
 
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WOW! Oxygen must be in short supply in NY! I pay less than $10 ($8.70 as of yesterday) for a 20cf exchange.....

Probably because I live in the middle of nowhere. The Williams Brewing site says exchanges in their area run $30. Even CO2 runs about 2x the price I can get in Albany. Maybe I'll shop for a better price, but I suspect it may be a year or two before I need another refill. In any case, your post emphasizes what a poor deal the disposable tanks are.
 
I saw that same regulator in an email ad from Williams. Sort of looks like this one, except with a hose barb added. I might have to consider that, as I'm getting tired of plunking down $10 for a throwaway tank that only oxygenates a handful of batches.

They have brand new 20CF tanks for under $80 w/free shipping on Ebay.

Were I to do this over, I'd grab the $80 tank and the Williams Big Oxygen kit without the tank. I know the local welding shop charges over double that amount.
 
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I bought the big oxygen system. Oxygen is much much cheaper with the 20 cf tank. Unfortunately it was not available without the tank as it is now. Most places swap bottles as they do not have the safety facilities to fill, so I had to swap out my new bottle for a used tank filled with 02. Refills are about $25. That's about the same amount of oxygen as 19 of the 1.4 ounce disposable cylinders. I don't know what the deposit would be where I trade my tanks. The regulator goes 4, 2, 1, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16 & 1/32 as I recall.

At $10 a pop for the disposables, if I can get the equivalent of 19 of them from one fill of a 20cf tank, that's a no-brainer. For $190, I can buy a tank, regulator and O2 fill, and have money left over. Refills of 20cf range from about $16-22 here.
 
At $10 a pop for the disposables, if I can get the equivalent of 19 of them from one fill of a 20cf tank, that's a no-brainer. For $190, I can buy a tank, regulator and O2 fill, and have money left over. Refills of 20cf range from about $16-22 here.

As I tell my students when things are incredibly easy: "We are entering the land of the brain dead monkeys."
 
FlyDoctor said:
This is the set up I need. IS there anything special about the meter - or did you need to retro it this somehow to make it work?

The in and out fittings had a 1/8" fitting on them and you could put barbs on them if you wanted to. I put quick disconnects on them I allow it to be easily detracted from the regulator and to allow use of different stones.

I just checked eBay and there is one that will work (0-5 L/min) for $15 now. Sorry, can't get the link to copy from my phone.


View item:
LZQ-7 height 120mm flowmeter(1-5,1-10 or 1-15LPM flow meter) for Oxygen/air/gas

The important thing it that they have a flat side so you can hose clamp it to the cylinder.
 
I have a large setup too and only use the red bottle for starters (easier to move around) and I also loan it out to my oxygen less friends. It does work nice though. I like being able to consistently deliver a set amount of O2. I finally got a DO meter and am in the process of trying to come up with an equation that takes into account temp, gravity, flow rate and time to predict ppm O2. I'll post the results once I know more.
 
any updates bigscience? also, do you have a link to that flow meter for the disposable tanks? not seeing it on amazon. thanks!
 
No real update on the O2 experiment. Oddly enough, I need to find a way to degas first. Got an Argon setup to see if I can sparge it out with that first and if not I'll try a vacuum setup. From the actual brews I've seen, I need about 3 minutes of 1L/min O2 to get 12ppm.

It's funny you ask about the flow meter because I just got the one from China today, ordered on 8/21. I think it's worth the $18 and I'll use it to make a setup for a buddy. I listed what I could see on the eBay add above. Sorry, hard to do links and such from my phone. Make sure you get the 0-5L.
 
thanks, here is the link if anyone is interested. I am going to try one, will post back when it gets here.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LZQ-3-heigh...7990?pt=Fish_Filters&var=&hash=item35c9e88eb6

one other question, do you do any type of aeration by hand before adding the oxygen? stirring, shaking, etc? I wonder how big of a difference it makes if you bring the oxygen up the max level by agitation, then apply oxygen.
 
I don't think there's any reason to shake first and then O2 it. It would save you a L of gas maybe but be more work. Plus there's an inconsistency issue too. Sometimes you may shake a little harder/longer than others and end up with inconsistent O2 levels. I'm all about repeatability.

As for the one posted above, it looks really similar to the one I just got except for it looks like its rounded on the sides. I like the ones that have flat sides because they seem easier to mount to the side of the bottle.
 
I have a regulator that appears identical except for the bottle connector. Mine has a yoke that goes around the post of a medical oxygen cylinder. If you search for medical oxygen regulator on ebay you will see examples, as well as other regulators, some with flow meters attached. I got mine from a retirement home when it was discarded. I refurbished it, tested it for leaks, then verified the flow rate with a borrowed flow meter. Freebies are the coolest.
 
From the actual brews I've seen, I need about 3 minutes of 1L/min O2 to get 12ppm.

Williams Brewing suggests 1/8 cpm for 1 minute. That's about 3.5 lpm for 1 minute giving 14-15 ppm. I usually let it go 90 seconds. I wonder if it might be a good idea to lower the rate and increase the time.
 
One thing I found when I got a flow meter was that what most people say for a flow is way to fast. Any bubbles you see at the top are just wasted O2 that didn't get dissolved. People in my club would talk about how they open the valve all the way until wort is foaming out of the top of the carboy. Then they'd complain about only getting a few uses out of a red tank.

I'd agree with the above. Slower is better for absorption efficiency. I'd do 1L for 3 min over 3L for 1 min. Next batch I'll do the split and post back the results. I'd bet the shorter time would be more like 8 ppm DO.
 
I just bought the William's regulator and picked up a 20cf cylinder for $90 (filled) from my local Airgas. I connected it all up and tested it in a pitcher of water with my 2-micron stone. I had to turn the dial up to 1/4 L/min to get it to bubble, and 1L/min produced a good amount of bubbling action. I think running at higher volumes would just waste O2, as most of it surfaces. The regulator is robust and works well.

I noticed that when I closed the tank valve, the remaining pressurized O2 inside the regulator kept the bubbling going for another 45 seconds or so at 1L/min. I'll have to remember to shut it off a little in advance to utilize that remaining purge.

I'm glad to not have to keep buying those little throwaway tanks. 20 cf of O2 will last me a long time.
 
I just bought the William's regulator and picked up a 20cf cylinder for $90 (filled) from my local Airgas. I connected it all up and tested it in a pitcher of water with my 2-micron stone. I had to turn the dial up to 1/4 L/min to get it to bubble, and 1L/min produced a good amount of bubbling action. I think running at higher volumes would just waste O2, as most of it surfaces. The regulator is robust and works well.


.

Maxstout, I noticed you're in Minneapolis? I live in Inver Grove. Are you actually using a flowmeter? How much did your oxygen tank and flow meter cost ? I've heard that the amount of oxygen used (if properly metered) is so low that the cost per beer is small. How fast were you going through disposable tanks?

I'm thinking of going with a disposable tank setup but It'd be good to be aware of the cost differential up front and in the long run.
 
thanks, here is the link if anyone is interested. I am going to try one, will post back when it gets here.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LZQ-3-heigh...7990?pt=Fish_Filters&var=&hash=item35c9e88eb6

one other question, do you do any type of aeration by hand before adding the oxygen? stirring, shaking, etc? I wonder how big of a difference it makes if you bring the oxygen up the max level by agitation, then apply oxygen.

I bought an LQZ-7 for $10 shipped from Alibaba. I wonder how difficult it will be to connect it to the hoses that come with the oxygenation kits. The barbs on the LZQ-7's are 8mm (~1/4" ID tubing, I am guessing) whereas the tubing that comes with the kits is ~3/4" ID. Anyone out there try theirs yet? Can you share how you connected it up? Maybe even share a pic?
 
Maxstout, I noticed you're in Minneapolis? I live in Inver Grove. Are you actually using a flowmeter? How much did your oxygen tank and flow meter cost ? I've heard that the amount of oxygen used (if properly metered) is so low that the cost per beer is small. How fast were you going through disposable tanks?

I'm thinking of going with a disposable tank setup but It'd be good to be aware of the cost differential up front and in the long run.

I paid about $90 for the O2 tank filled, at Airgas. The reg was 30 or 40 from Williams. I would get about 4 or 5 uses out of a $10 disposable cylinder. YMMV. A 20 cu ft tank holds as much as 18 disposables. So the big setup would save money with just one fill.

The Williams reg has several flow settings, from 1/8 to a couple L/min., I think. I run mine at 1 L/min for about 90 sec. In fact, I shut off the main valve at 60s, and the remaining O2 in the regulator will continue to flow through the stone for another 30s.

I still have the small reg if you're interested. PM me.
 
I paid about $90 for the O2 tank filled, at Airgas. The reg was 30 or 40 from Williams. I would get about 4 or 5 uses out of a $10 disposable cylinder. YMMV. A 20 cu ft tank holds as much as 18 disposables. So the big setup would save money with just one fill.

The Williams reg has several flow settings, from 1/8 to a couple L/min., I think. I run mine at 1 L/min for about 90 sec. In fact, I shut off the main valve at 60s, and the remaining O2 in the regulator will continue to flow through the stone for another 30s.

I still have the small reg if you're interested. PM me.

I'm definitely interested. I'll send you a message.

How do you measure the flow of oxygen?
 
I'm definitely interested. I'll send you a message.

How do you measure the flow of oxygen?

With the regulator that works with disposables, there is no way to measure. The flow rate can be adjusted by how far you open the valve, but there are no settings showing flow rate. I would just crack it wide open and aerate for 60-90 seconds.

The Williams regulator has a dial that allows you to select flow rate, in liters/min. It ranges from 1/8 to 4 liters/min.
P21.JPG
 
With the regulator that works with disposables, there is no way to measure. The flow rate can be adjusted by how far you open the valve, but there are no settings showing flow rate. I would just crack it wide open and aerate for 60-90 seconds.

The Williams regulator has a dial that allows you to select flow rate, in liters/min. It ranges from 1/8 to 4 liters/min.
P21.JPG

It looks like BigScience and Veedo got an LZQ-7 flowmeter for measuring flow. From earlier posts, it looks like BigScience uses it for the disposable tanks. I'm not sure of his success with it. It would be nice if we could hear an update on that.

Anyone out there used the LZQ-7 with a disposable tank?
 
I would also love to hear any updates and more details on connecting it with the $50 Williams kit.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Home Brew mobile app
 
The in and out fittings had a 1/8" fitting on them and you could put barbs on them if you wanted to. I put quick disconnects on them I allow it to be easily detracted from the regulator and to allow use of different stones.

I just checked eBay and there is one that will work (0-5 L/min) for $15 now. Sorry, can't get the link to copy from my phone.


View item:
LZQ-7 height 120mm flowmeter(1-5,1-10 or 1-15LPM flow meter) for Oxygen/air/gas

The important thing it that they have a flat side so you can hose clamp it to the cylinder.

I didn't see the pic you had of your setup on the first page of this thread until now. Good one! It's not clear to me what the connections to the LZQ meter are. Do you have the 8mm barb fittings on the LZQ-7 or did you remove them and add your own? I'm worried that doing this will change the flow measurement.

Could you list what is needed for this meter, including fittings and hoses as well as sizes of each?

Would you mind posting a couple more pics?

Thanks!
 
That meter had a few fittings that I replaced with quick disconnects I had. This lets me swap out a different sized stone and disconnect the regulator more easily. I don't recall the thread size but it's noting exotic that you couldn't find at HD.

Another meter I got off eBay had barbs already on it.

Here are the only Picts I have. I loaned it out to a friend and can't take more now but let me know what you want and I'll see what I can do.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
Thanks for the pictures. That's very helpful. I noticed that the in and out terminals are close together in your model. They are at opposite ends of the meter in the pictures I've seen.

If you have a way of figuring out what fittings you got, that might be useful.

Any idea if the flow reading is accurate?

Anyone else out there been able to rig theirs up yet? I haven't gotten mine from China yet.
 
After reading this thread I ordered a 20 cf tank and the regulator. I guess locally it's $20 to fill it.


Almost Famous Brewing Company
 
The one pictured is set up to accept O2 out of a wall like in a hospital. I have a Chinese one with ports at the back top/bottom too. As for accuracy, I have no idea. I'd think it should be pretty good bit it didn't list any tolerances on it. I'm more concerned about my process reproducibility. It 1L/min is really 1.25L/min, that's better than 3/4 of the way wide open for batch to batch results. No matter what you get, it's way better than having nothing at all.

One of these days I'm going to upload some videos of what a Red bottle amounts open look like in terms of L/min. What I've heard members of my club say they do is really like 10L/min. Remember, if you see bubbles at the top, that's undissolved O2


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Yeh I hear you on predictability. It's good to know how accurate it is though. When I get mine (assuming I can get it hooked up right) I'd like to measure the flow using a water displacement or balloon circumference method. Who knows if that'll actually happen though.

About bubbles at the top- Did you make sure that O2 is coming out of the stone when that is happening? I would guess that the only way to check that is to look for bubbles in transparent liquid.

What did you say your preferred flow rate is? 1L/m for 3 minutes? I've heard that 8ppm is acheived with 1L/m in 1 minute, assuming that everyone's setup measures consistently.

What is the model of the flow meter you have?
 
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