New to Kegging - A Couple Questions

[Epos7]

I've just picked up two torpedo kegs, CO2 tank, regulator, fittings, etc.

My plan is to transfer from carboy to keg, use my fermentation chamber to keep the kegs chilled, and serve from a picnic tap. When I want to use the fermentation chamber again, I plan to bottle what's left with a Beergun or similar, freeing up my freezer for a new batch.

I've given the kegs and all the fittings a good cleaning with PBW. Now that it's clean, should I put keg lube anywhere?

I picked up one of the CMBecker party faucets since the cheap picnic taps have mixed reviews and too many horror stories of freezers filled with beer:

https://www.cmbecker.com/product/flow-control-beer-gun-event-or-party-faucet/

Should I put keg lube anywhere in the faucet?

Thanks!

 

[shoengine]

I lube up any sealing surface, such as the big o-ring on the corny kegs or the rubber washers on the sankey-D piston. I don't personally lube any internal assemblies, such as the washers inside the ball-locks or converters on the sankey tap or any of my bottling equipment.

And I've learned after two beer leaking events never to leave the picnic tap connected unattended.

 

[Epos7]

I lube up any sealing surface, such as the big o-ring on the corny kegs or the rubber washers on the sankey-D piston. I don't personally lube any internal assemblies, such as the washers inside the ball-locks or converters on the sankey tap or any of my bottling equipment.

And I've learned after two beer leaking events never to leave the picnic tap connected unattended.

Does it make a mess disconnecting the picnic tap all the time, or is it pretty painless? I'm using ball lock fittings which may be different in this regard from your sanke fittings.

 

[shoengine]

Ball locks are fairly clean disconnects, unless you linger engaging the popit. I go for days between using the tap, mainly because it is used for sampling prior to bottling. If I were to dispense from the keg as a matter of course I'd buy real taps.

 

[ABI Brewery]

I have ball locks and love them, very clean and have had good luck with sealing, also Love the torpedo kegs, I have 6 kegs in total, changing over to torpedo for my entire line-up but going slow since the pepsi ones dont really go bad it will take a while to go all torpedo, anyway I would lube any plastic O ring that you have with even just a bit of keg lube especially since my suggestion is that if your party tap is going to be left on the keg unused for a couple days, take it off and unhook your CO2. I have had the CO2 leak out and t have had the taps inadvertently opened. Thats my experience, but from your earlier post sounds like your on the right path.

 

[Epos7]

Beer is kegged! Not everything went smoothly - my closed transfers took forever, about 30 minutes per carboy.

I didn't cold crash this batch as much as I normally do in an effort to avoid oxygen suckback in the carboy. I think this left a lot of sediment in the beer which clogged the quick disconnect. The transfer got slower as it went along, probably as more gunk was building up in there. Not sure what to do about that next time. I like the idea of not cold crashing in the carboy to reduce oxygen exposure, but it defeats the purpose if it means I can't do a closed transfer.

To purge the kegs before filling, I was planning on filling with Star San then pushing the Star San out with CO2. I noticed that this would leave quite a bit of Star San in the bottom of my keg however, so I had to open it up again anyway. Purged with some more CO2 and moved along to the transfer.

 

[shoengine]

Beer is kegged! Not everything went smoothly - my closed transfers took forever, about 30 minutes per carboy.

I didn't cold crash this batch as much as I normally do in an effort to avoid oxygen suckback in the carboy. I think this left a lot of sediment in the beer which clogged the quick disconnect. The transfer got slower as it went along, probably as more gunk was building up in there. Not sure what to do about that next time. I like the idea of not cold crashing in the carboy to reduce oxygen exposure, but it defeats the purpose if it means I can't do a closed transfer.

To purge the kegs before filling, I was planning on filling with Star San then pushing the Star San out with CO2. I noticed that this would leave quite a bit of Star San in the bottom of my keg however, so I had to open it up again anyway. Purged with some more CO2 and moved along to the transfer.

Some people snip a little off of their dip tube to avoid the sediment. I wouls probably just use a high pressure to get it all out on the first or second pour.

 

[SanPancho]

Beer is kegged! Not everything went smoothly - my closed transfers took forever, about 30 minutes per carboy.

I didn't cold crash this batch as much as I normally do in an effort to avoid oxygen suckback in the carboy. I think this left a lot of sediment in the beer which clogged the quick disconnect. The transfer got slower as it went along, probably as more gunk was building up in there. Not sure what to do about that next time. I like the idea of not cold crashing in the carboy to reduce oxygen exposure, but it defeats the purpose if it means I can't do a closed transfer.

To purge the kegs before filling, I was planning on filling with Star San then pushing the Star San out with CO2. I noticed that this would leave quite a bit of Star San in the bottom of my keg however, so I had to open it up again anyway. Purged with some more CO2 and moved along to the transfer.

you were venting the serving keg, yes? Otherwise pressure builds and flow slows dramatically. Especially towards the end

 

[Epos7]

you were venting the serving keg, yes? Otherwise pressure builds and flow slows dramatically. Especially towards the end

Correct. I had the purge valve open while filling.

I took the QD's apart and there was some hops sediment in there. Not much, but it must have been enough to slow things down significantly.

 

[Epos7]

I've been pouring beer from my kegs for about a week now. At first, it was fantastic. Best beer I've ever made.

Unfortunately I'm already seeing staling Hops flavors have faded dramatically and the beer is getting sweet even though it finished at 1.009.

I just used standard vinyl tubing for my beer line, so there is some oxygen ingress there. I might try Bev Seal Ultra, although I'm wary of how stiff it is. Another suggestion I've read is to disconnect the gas and beer lines when not serving, and purge them before serving. That seems like a lot of trouble for someone like me who just has a beer or two most nights.

It's possible I introduced some oxygen during my mild (down to 45 degrees) cold crash. I think I'll try eliminating the cold crash in my fermenter for my next batch. I'm still struggling with how to dry hop without the cold crash though, because the hops sediments clog my closed transfer if I don't crash.

I suppose the last resort would be to ferment in kegs. I wouldn't have to worry about pressure when transferring to the serving keg like I do with my glass carboys. I could just blast the beer through with 10+ PSI, I think that would easily flush out any hops sediment.

Downside to fermenting in kegs: smaller batches, no visual confirmation of fermentation activity...

 

[Rev2010]

I just used standard vinyl tubing for my beer line, so there is some oxygen ingress there. I might try Bev Seal Ultra, although I'm wary of how stiff it is.

Not sure the lines are the issue with your beer as it would only affect the beer in the line which usually equates to around 2oz if using a standard 12' line length, but I use Ultra Barrier Silver which has flexibility and resistance like regular beer lines. I swear by this stuff. Yes it's more expensive but worth it IMO. https://www.morebeer.com/products/ultra-barrier-antimicrobial-pvc-free-tubing-316-foot.html


Rev.

 

[Epos7]

Not sure the lines are the issue with your beer as it would only affect the beer in the line which usually equates to around 2oz if using a standard 12' line length, but I use Ultra Barrier Silver which has flexibility and resistance like regular beer lines. I swear by this stuff. Yes it's more expensive but worth it IMO. https://www.morebeer.com/products/ultra-barrier-antimicrobial-pvc-free-tubing-316-foot.html


Rev.

I bought the Ultra Barrier stuff for my gas lines but they were out of the right size for my beer lines when I ordered, so that's why I ended up with the standard vinyl tubing. I might try to track some down for the beer tubing. Right now I'm serving from a CMB picnic tap. It uses 1/4" hose and I have it on 5' so there's about 3oz in there. You're right that it wouldn't seem like enough to cause staling of the beer left in the keg, unless the oxygen can move down the line and into the keg.

One thing that should shed some light on where the oxidation is coming from is when I tap the second keg. If it tastes fresh then the issue is likely post-packaging. If it's also stale then I must be oxidizing the beer before or during packaging.

 

[Epos7]

I'm also very intrigued by Micromatic's Gen-X tubing which is specifically advertised as having low oxygen permeability:

https://www.micromatic.com/draft-keg-beer/wine-tubing-pid-548GENX.html

It's made by Valpar, but they don't list it on their website. I'm thinking it may be marketed as "Gen-X" in the US and as "Barriermaster Flavourlock" in the UK:

http://www.valpar.co.uk/beverage/valpar-tubing/barriermaster

The above is advertised as being 80 times better at preventing gas permeation than polyethylene tube, which lines up with the data Micromatic is using to advertise Gen-X.

Its bore may be too smooth for most as it would require pretty long line length. My CMB party faucet has flow control and line length doesn't matter, so it could work well there. It also doesn't appear to be available in 3/16" but is in the 1/4" I need.

 

[day_trippr]

Nobody actually uses polyethylene tubing for beer or gas, do they? Seems like an irrelevant metric.
I'd be more interested in a comparison against something folks actually use - like solid pvc...

Cheers!

 

[Epos7]

Nobody actually uses polyethylene tubing for beer or gas, do they? Seems like an irrelevant metric.
I'd be more interested in a comparison against something folks actually use - like solid pvc...

Cheers!

I doubt anyone is using just polyethylene, but I think it is a component in some beer lines that use multiple materials.

I'd be interested in that too. Micromatic/Valpar list Gen-X as allowing 20x less O2 permeation than their own Brewmaster 2 tubing, but I'm not clear on what Brewmaster 2 is made of.

They list Gen-X with an O2 permeation value of 0.05 cc/metre/day/bar @20°C. I did a quick search to see if I could come up with a value for PVC tubing in the same units, but nothing immediately popped up.

 

[Epos7]

Update: I tapped the second keg (which has been connected to gas this whole time) and it's nice and fresh.

This means that either my transfer was bad on one of the two kegs, and exposed the beer to oxygen, or it's oxygenating through my serving tubing. I'm betting on the latter for now, and am looking into some replacement line. In the mean time I'm disconnecting the serving line every night.

 

[4of7]

I've been pouring beer from my kegs for about a week now. At first, it was fantastic. Best beer I've ever made.

Unfortunately I'm already seeing staling Hops flavors have faded dramatically and the beer is getting sweet even though it finished at 1.009.

I just used standard vinyl tubing for my beer line, so there is some oxygen ingress there. I might try Bev Seal Ultra, although I'm wary of how stiff it is. Another suggestion I've read is to disconnect the gas and beer lines when not serving, and purge them before serving. That seems like a lot of trouble for someone like me who just has a beer or two most nights.

It's possible I introduced some oxygen during my mild (down to 45 degrees) cold crash. I think I'll try eliminating the cold crash in my fermenter for my next batch. I'm still struggling with how to dry hop without the cold crash though, because the hops sediments clog my closed transfer if I don't crash.

I suppose the last resort would be to ferment in kegs. I wouldn't have to worry about pressure when transferring to the serving keg like I do with my glass carboys. I could just blast the beer through with 10+ PSI, I think that would easily flush out any hops sediment.

Downside to fermenting in kegs: smaller batches, no visual confirmation of fermentation activity...

pressure transfer does take long time,,,well worth the wait as I harvest yeast underpress

 

[Epos7]

View attachment 598529 pressure transfer does take long time,,,well worth the wait as I harvest yeast underpress

I'm brewing again in a couple days. A stout this time, so no dry hop. I'm interested to see how the transfer goes without any hops sediment to slow things down. I'm also going to try doing a transfer at fermentation temperatures, then cold crashing and gelatin fining in keg. I plan to add the gelatin solution using a syringe after removing the pressure release valve. Trying to work on my low oxygen practices.

On my last batch I had an issue with the ball lock fitting on my liquid post leaking while I had the keg connected to 30PSI. I'll just disconnect from the liquid post while carbonating in the future, but it does make me a little suspicious of the gas posts at the same pressure. Sprayed them with some Star San solution and saw no bubbles, so hopefully all is good.

 

[4of7]

Yes , brewing does go sideways, good caych on the leak.I set the spunding valve at 20 PSI , room temp is@66f. . the picture is first phase.gas line blow off water bucket. It's on there for 12hrs.then put spunding.That is it's home till transfer.I will be putting the 5 corny in the root cellars/work pit in my shop as the temp is much colder