New to all grain...(HELP!!!)

[bmock79]

I have made about 4 batches doing all grain, my mash efficiency has been as low as 50% and high as 75%. I would love to consistently be in the 70's.

I mash in a coleman cooler with a ss braid.


My process:

I mash in generally at 1.25qts./lb. of grain mash generally for 60 minutes.
And just recently I have learned how to hit my mash temps!!!

It seems the times I got low efficency were the times I didn't mash out so I will mash out with water in the 195 area to raise the grain bed temp and let it rest around 168ish for ten minutes.

Then I collect my first runnings.

Next I sparge usually just once with water around 180 degrees to achieve my preboil volume.

Then I go about my boil as usual.

Is this a pretty standard mash?

I think my low efficiency brews might have been due to no mash out or lower temps when i did mashout or low temps when spargeing. What temps does everyone use to mashout and sparge with?

Thanks for the help!!!

 

[Kaz]

Who mills your grain? The crush can have a huge impact on efficiency. Generally, the finer the crush the higher the efficiency. However, if you are lautering, you can't go too fine or you'll risk a stuck sparge. I do all grain brew in a bag, since I'm not lautering or sparging, I crush until I pretty much have flour and get close 90% mash efficiency.

 

[bmock79]

Also I am planning on doing a big beer on sunday and I want to be sure I hit my gravity of 1.074...

Cheers

 

[bmock79]

I think the crush is good. I get it from my lhbs and they do a pretty good business and never heard of anyone complaining about the crush...

 

[beerman0001]

What is your preboil amount and how long is your boil?

 

[bmock79]

Right at 8 gallons and 60 minute boil.
I usually boil off a gallon or more and lose about a gallon to the bottom of my keggle and cooling. I shoot for 5.5 into the fermenter.

 

[bmock79]

friday night bump

 

[dutchoven]

1.25 qt/lb seems a little low ... I usually mash at 1.5 qt/lb and try to split my mash and sparge water evenly.

 

[tdogg]

are your grains at least getting crushed on the SAME mill?

 

[gmcapone]

Are you making sure to stir the grains well before the rest? You don't want any dough balls...I neglected this my first time and got low efficiency as well. Ever since I stirred thoroughly and have been consistently getting 80%.

 

[Runyanka]

Do you stir like a mad man before or during mash out? Knock those starches into circulation. That helps me.

 

[Rev2010]

So you only single batch sparge? Why not try a double batch sparge, just split your sparge volume in two, add the first and stir it up and let it sit 5-10 minutes then vorlauf and drain. Then do it again. Also, get your own grain mill, I got some poor efficiency until I got my own mill and crushed myself. These two seem to be the top two things I can think of. BTW, losing a gallon in the kettle isn't really normal, at least in my opinion. I generally only lose a quart, that could be thinning out your OG a bit. I preboil with 6.5 typically but with some other beers I may go a little more. So far I've been hitting 5 gallons perfectly in the fermenter.


Rev.

 

[beerman0001]

It is your crush. Get your own mill, condition your grain and do the same beer a few times in a row. Until you have total control over everything you don't have total control.

 

[sculpin]

Right at 8 gallons and 60 minute boil.
I usually boil off a gallon or more and lose about a gallon to the bottom of my keggle and cooling. I shoot for 5.5 into the fermenter.

Do you calculate your mash efficiency using the post boil volume or what goes into your fermenter?

 

[bmock79]

So you only single batch sparge? Why not try a double batch sparge, just split your sparge volume in two, add the first and stir it up and let it sit 5-10 minutes then vorlauf and drain. Then do it again. Also, get your own grain mill, I got some poor efficiency until I got my own mill and crushed myself. These two seem to be the top two things I can think of. BTW, losing a gallon in the kettle isn't really normal, at least in my opinion. I generally only lose a quart, that could be thinning out your OG a bit. I preboil with 6.5 typically but with some other beers I may go a little more. So far I've been hitting 5 gallons perfectly in the fermenter.

Rev.

It seems a little much to me as well. I have a copper tube angled towards the side of the kettle. I can drain more but I have to tilt the keggle and end up dumping in a bunch of trub/hop junk.

 

[bmock79]

Do you stir like a mad man before or during mash out? Knock those starches into circulation. That helps me.

No sir, I have never stirred before or during mashout. Only during the sparge and of course when I add my strike water.

I had never heard of anyone doing it that way but I will sure give it a shot.

 

[bmock79]

Are you making sure to stir the grains well before the rest? You don't want any dough balls...I neglected this my first time and got low efficiency as well. Ever since I stirred thoroughly and have been consistently getting 80%.

I am pretty confident I get it good and stirred in. This is one of the ways I get to my rest temp. I add the strike water several degrees warmer than needed and stir my face off till I reach my mash temp.

 

[bmock79]

are your grains at least getting crushed on the SAME mill?

Yup it's the same mill.

 

[bmock79]

Do you calculate your mash efficiency using the post boil volume or what goes into your fermenter?

I have been using the mash details section of beer smith to calculate my mash efficiency. I believe I put in the preboil gravity and preboil volume to determine the MASH eff not the overall brewhouse eff.

 

[BigUgly]

It seems a little much to me as well. I have a copper tube angled towards the side of the kettle. I can drain more but I have to tilt the keggle and end up dumping in a bunch of trub/hop junk.

That stuff doesn't hurt your brew. I usually get most of the trub in my carboy because I want ALL of my wort. It's easier to rack off a solid cake than it is off of soft trub. You will get a greater yield by doing so.

 

[bmock79]

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions, so far I have learned an sh** ton of stuff from this forum and I think my beers have improved a lot since I joined!!

I am making the breakfast stout tomorrow and I want to be sure I hit my numbers!!

 

[bmock79]

That stuff doesn't hurt your brew. I usually get most of the trub in my carboy because I want ALL of my wort. It's easier to rack off a solid cake than it is off of soft trub. You will get a greater yield by doing so.

I will def try it out tomorrow.

 

[Yooper]

No sir, I have never stirred before or during mashout. Only during the sparge and of course when I add my strike water.

I had never heard of anyone doing it that way but I will sure give it a shot.

I'd probably skip the mashout, and instead drain the MLT fully. Then do two rounds of batch sparging- the first one at the warmer temperature to bring the grain bed up to 168, and the second one at 170 (so that the grainbed never exceeds 170 degrees). You don't need a mashout with a batch sparge, and you'll get better efficiency with two rounds of batch sparging usually.

When you add water like in a mashout or batch sparge, you should stir like your life depending on it. Stir, stir, stir, stir. Check the temperatures throughout, and if they are different in two places, stir some more. Stir until your arms fall off. Then stir one last time.

Let it sit for a few minutes, then vorlauf and drain. Then do the second batch sparge. Same way- stir, stir, stir, stir, stir. Check the grainbed temperature in at least two places. If it's the same, you're good. If it's different, stir again. Then let sit for a couple of minutes, vorlauf and drain.

 

[bmock79]

I'd probably skip the mashout, and instead drain the MLT fully. Then do two rounds of batch sparging- the first one at the warmer temperature to bring the grain bed up to 168, and the second one at 170 (so that the grainbed never exceeds 170 degrees). You don't need a mashout with a batch sparge, and you'll get better efficiency with two rounds of batch sparging usually.

When you add water like in a mashout or batch sparge, you should stir like your life depending on it. Stir, stir, stir, stir. Check the temperatures throughout, and if they are different in two places, stir some more. Stir until your arms fall off. Then stir one last time.

Let it sit for a few minutes, then vorlauf and drain. Then do the second batch sparge. Same way- stir, stir, stir, stir, stir. Check the grainbed temperature in at least two places. If it's the same, you're good. If it's different, stir again. Then let sit for a couple of minutes, vorlauf and drain.

yooper- i am a bit leary of not batch sparging because, I swear the times my efficiency was really crappy it was the times I did not mash out.

Do you think this was because when I sparged I did not heat the grain bed hot enough?

I plan on mashing at 155 for 60 minutes then I will drain the mash tun and proceed with batch spargeing. Do you have a guesstimate as to the temps I should sparge with? Should the first round be near 200? So I can be sure the grain bed is heated up to 168ish?

Thanks!!

 

[Yooper]

yooper- i am a bit leary of not batch sparging because, I swear the times my efficiency was really crappy it was the times I did not mash out.

Do you think this was because when I sparged I did not heat the grain bed hot enough?

I plan on mashing at 155 for 60 minutes then I will drain the mash tun and proceed with batch spargeing. Do you have a guesstimate as to the temps I should sparge with? Should the first round be near 200? So I can be sure the grain bed is heated up to 168ish?

Thanks!!

Oh, you'd be batch sparging! But in two rounds, using the "mash out" addition to raise the temperature of the grain bed as well as doing the first round of batch sparging. Since you'd drain fully, then immediately add the sparge addition, it would serve as a mash out as well as more thoroughly rinse the sugars, if that makes sense.

As far as temperature for the batch sparging, you want to get the grainbed to 168-170. That ensures that you get the grainbed as hot as you can without risking tannin extraction, and makes the sugars as soluble as possible. As an example, think of honey. The warmer it gets, the easier it is to pour/rinse. The idea in batch sparging is to make those sugars as soluble as possible and rinse it out of the grainbed.

I'd say that some online calculators can help you figure the temps, but that 200-202 degrees is probably about right for the first addition. Since the grainbed will already be at 168, the second round of batch sparging should be 170 or so.

 

[bmock79]

Oh, you'd be batch sparging! But in two rounds, using the "mash out" addition to raise the temperature of the grain bed as well as doing the first round of batch sparging. Since you'd drain fully, then immediately add the sparge addition, it would serve as a mash out as well as more thoroughly rinse the sugars, if that makes sense.

As far as temperature for the batch sparging, you want to get the grainbed to 168-170. That ensures that you get the grainbed as hot as you can without risking tannin extraction, and makes the sugars as soluble as possible. As an example, think of honey. The warmer it gets, the easier it is to pour/rinse. The idea in batch sparging is to make those sugars as soluble as possible and rinse it out of the grainbed.

I'd say that some online calculators can help you figure the temps, but that 200-202 degrees is probably about right for the first addition. Since the grainbed will already be at 168, the second round of batch sparging should be 170 or so.

Awesome just to be clear you would mash then drain the tun, then do two batch sparges, the first being the 200 deg addition drain, then do another sparge around 170?

Thanks!

 

[windbreaker123]

Mash Then bring your gain up to 168 to 170. Double batch sparge if you want but check the ph on the last.

 

[Yooper]

Awesome just to be clear you would mash then drain the tun, then do two batch sparges, the first being the 200 deg addition drain, then do another sparge around 170?

Thanks!

Yep! In fact, that's what I'm doing today. I am mashing 26.5 pounds of grain in my 10 gallon Igloo (10 gallon batch). I did a really thick mash so it all would fit. I was planning on fly sparging with my system (as that what it's set up for) but my pump bogged down pretty quick because of the grainbed compaction with that thick mash and some sticky wheat.

Anyway, my MLT is full to the tippy top. So, I'll drain the first runnings, add 14 quarts of 202 degree water to my grainbed (1/2 of my total sparge water), stir like a crazy person, vorlauf and drain. Then do it again with 170 degree water for the second round.

 

[bmock79]

Thanks a bunch

Cheers!!