I totally understand. I feel you have done a great job designing this pump and incorporating the most important options. I look forward to some reviews once these get out to some brewers.
NEW Product Launch - Spike Brew Pump
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I know it's marketing but keeping them honest, it's a forum. I didn't give them any gruff about their other claims but "ultra-quiet" for what is is such a small difference is a bit much, particularly at 64.5 dB.
It's unfair to ask for evidence comparing an old pump to a new pump (agree or disagree?) but I completely agree that for the given results for the first three the difference is not going to be of any significance for most people.
Nate R
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THIS is unfair:
I've been waiting cloae to 6 months and @SpikeBrewing has only released 2 things so far!
No, I don't think they are asking anything unfair. I think they asked people who have different pumps to give their opinion on how much noise they make. I guess I didn't read too much in to it as I have a "noisy" pump and a "quiet" pump and it isn't enough difference to effect my brew day. I would suggest if it is that important to you maybe you could do some testing and post your results.
I don't own any spike gear and don't have any connection with them. I was reading a thread about pumps and it mentioned people using different pumps and their observations. I posted what I have noticed while using the 3 pumps I have and my opinion on the spike design. Spike is trying to sell a pump and they say its quiet. That isn't something I care that much about. I scrolled past the dB chart and didn't pay any attention to that because similar to what you said above, I feel those charts don't always show what's really going on.
@Deadalus do you brew with a pump? Are you in the market for a new pump? Do you have any helpful observations you could share with people possibly looking to purchase a pump?
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Why yes, I am in the market for a new pump(s), I built a three vessel 2 pump (both March) EHerms system which I will be using twice in the next week. One of my pumps has been cavitating which after various maintenance procedures appears to be related to decoupling at higher temperatures (sparging, water pump). My investigation of the matter however is inconclusive based on limited observations from other users (really a side issue here.) My helpful observation is to ask the vendor to make fairly determined claims in their marketing and not ask for/present data that is not, i.e. consumer advocacy. As a scientist, I would immediately note that comparing an old pump to a new one could lead to potentially biased results for this given scenario. While I am tempted to purchase a Blichmann and Spike simultaneously in the future to conduct a comparison, I can't say I will have the funds to do both nor do I have the specific scientific equipment and expertise to appropriately test some of the pump characteristics. But as far as sound, substantial information exists to indicate that the given range of 1.5-2.0 dB is a barely noticeable difference. I will add though one thought and that is with a two pump system, that small difference might more noticeable when both pumps are operating, which occurs for me during mashing and when I am fly sparging. Depending on one's preferences, both pumps may also be in operation when heating the strike water.
I only notice a difference in noise when I have to turn my music up while brewing. I can't recall for certain whether I do that with pump changes (1 vs. 2) but I do know I have to do that when I turn my exhaust fan up to 7 or 8. I'll be sure to note it though in upcoming brews!
I do think the black is pretty badass.
Anything as quiet as the Riptide is quiet enough. Small improments wont really be noticed because the element running is at least as noisy. If anything is to be gleaned from this chart is that the Spike pump is very quiet and you wont be unhappy with the noise. The open frame March and chuggers are noticeably noisy and more so if you run two at the same time.
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Maybe @SpikeBrewing would be willing to share some details about their testing process as well as actual dB measurements of different pumps? I'm also curious where the Topsflo TD5 lands on the chart. I feel it is a common pump in brew systems these days.
As I have said, the range of sound brewing pumps make isn't important to me. When I brew, my idea of relaxing is having some sort of rock from the 80's & 90's blaring in my shop. Pump noise doesn't really register. I understand other people will have different ideas of a relaxing brew and the quietest pump would be important to them. If its that important maybe come up with a system that doesn't require pumps? There are options out there for this.
My old March pump is Black... Spike does do a great job with the "bling".
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What is striking me here though is that the data presented is showing the Riptide at only 0.5 dB lower than the March 815, with 1 dB usually being barely noticeable. I'm not doubting anyone saying they can tell the difference. But reports that people do hear the difference make me wonder several things:
1. Do they have excellent hearing?
2. Are the reported values wrong?
3. Are there testing differences such as models tested, configuration differences, a random mismatch where a good pump and a bad pump were picked for testing.
Plus separately,
4. Why are the March and Chugger that much apart, a little over 4 dB?? I have March 809s which the head is interchangeable with the Chugger, not sure about the 815s but 809s and 815s are nearly the same. If my 809 is more like the Chugger than either the Spike or Blichmann would be an improvement but if my 809 is just like the 815 then perhaps just the Spike will be noticeably different as I have slight hearing loss.
Just food for thought on the sound front.
A very nice feature in my opinion between the Blichmann and Spike vs. March and Chugger is the 3" TC on the pump heads. Having to take off 8 screws to get inside becomes a chore particularly when it is necessary during brewing. Plus it's a real PITA to find a replacement SS screw when you lose one.
I'm not 100% confident but if you look at the Chuggers and March 809s, you can see the frame of the motor has much larger vent holes. I know that the early chuggers had smaller vents and were more prone to overheating when the ambient environment was really hot. There are a few sub-models of the March 815 but the -PL version seems to have smaller vents and that may lend to less noise.
I agree that the 3" TC heads are a game changer in that class of pump, at that price point for many users. I personally don't take my pump head apart almost ever so it's not as important. I think the decision between Riptide and Spike is going to come down to brand loyalty first, then maybe the choice between built in throttling valve vs external/add-on throttling valve or wanting absolute highest pressure and flow for CIP. I don't see anyone replacing a working Riptide with a Spike pump due to the nominal performance increases.
The TD5 is nearly silent. Some individual units are slightly noisier but many of them can be running 4ft away and you wouldn't know they are on. Flow and pressure performance is more inline with the March/Chugger so the running noise level isn't really everything.
Same for Chugger pumps, USA-made.
McMullan
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I think the main reason I liked the look of the Spike pump is because I've been using a RipTide pump for a few years. The design looks so remarkably similar I'd guess the same factory knocks out the base units. As far as the small improvements bigged up in Spike's marketing speil go, I don't use the RipTide's purge valve (it sits far enough below the liquid level to 'self prime'), I haven't ever had a blockage, so 'cutting tines' aren't on my list, and I struggle to see how front Vs side inlet makes that much of a difference. And, although I have a transformer to power US 110v equipment, it's a PITA. So I'm definitely out.
No sir. Chugger pumps are made in China.
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I recently viewed a couple videos comparing different pumps, including the video above in post #49 from Spike. One video did a sound comparison of the March (didn't catch the specific model, side inlet) and the Riptide. The Riptide is quieter by my ear, no instrument measurements were made. Another video used a phone app to measure decibels, so while perhaps not a dedicated instrument, there were significant differences in measurement between a Chugger (90dB), a March (88dB) and a Riptide(72dB). The March and Chugger were about the same, the sounds were different in composition mainly to me. The Riptide did sound quieter than both and was 16dB less than the March and 18 dB less than the Chugger. I will point out that the tester appears to have a new Riptide vs his current March as it is mentioned to have been used as well as probably still missing its thrust washer. He's very upfront though and the comparisons are pretty reasonable.
Spike doesn't run the pumps in a sound test in their video above, they present their data in a figure. And having watched their video, I got the impression that their engineers put a lot of time into designing the pump head for flow and so I suspect that they at least used decent instruments to measure sound as well. Their results for the March 815 and Riptide are so close (0.5 dB), I have to wonder if some of these other video comparisons (Non-Spike) are seeing differences because of older March pumps vs. new Blichmanns. I am also going to note that Blichmann advertises the Riptide at 50dB. Best comparison for 50 dB I could find is moderate rainfall, with 60 dB being normal conversation.
I wasn't able to brew on Sunday, so only brewed once this weekend. I did make it a point to note the difference between one and two pumps being on and that is significant enough to turn up the music volume some.
And as I said, I watched Spike's video. The bleeder valve design on the Flow is likely superior. They note that it is probably more important to have a solid column of liquid on the in side for priming which I have also observed in practice. I have my bleeder valves on my March on the in side myself. You would need at least a tee and a ball valve, I recommend a barb fitting as well and you may need at least one nipple ~$15-$25. I think they are likely on the right track with the center inlet, March pumps that differ in the pump head only (center vs side inlets) do have different rates with the center having slightly better stats. The Riptide's valve placement allegedly interferes with flow according to Spike as well. I think the Spike engineers have found that the integral valve may affect max flow different perhaps than a ball valve on the out. It seems to be what they are implying anyway. I agree with the Spike spokespeople in the video that typically there is a valve on the in ports of most typical brewing vessels that allow for easier flow manipulation as you can see inside the vessel without stooping. I use a valve on my BK whirlpool port and that's the port I use to transfer from my MT when sparging to throttle flow. I do however have a valve on the out of the pump as well which I use at different times such as controlling the sparge water flow into the MT and for throttling flow into the plate chiller for maximizing cooling and oxygenation. The out valve on the pump also makes hose transfer easier in my opinion. A 1/2" SS valve is about $10-$15 and you can pay more if you want to.
Spike doesn't run the pumps in a sound test in their video above, they present their data in a figure. And having watched their video, I got the impression that their engineers put a lot of time into designing the pump head for flow and so I suspect that they at least used decent instruments to measure sound as well. Their results for the March 815 and Riptide are so close (0.5 dB), I have to wonder if some of these other video comparisons (Non-Spike) are seeing differences because of older March pumps vs. new Blichmanns. I am also going to note that Blichmann advertises the Riptide at 50dB. Best comparison for 50 dB I could find is moderate rainfall, with 60 dB being normal conversation.
I wasn't able to brew on Sunday, so only brewed once this weekend. I did make it a point to note the difference between one and two pumps being on and that is significant enough to turn up the music volume some.
And as I said, I watched Spike's video. The bleeder valve design on the Flow is likely superior. They note that it is probably more important to have a solid column of liquid on the in side for priming which I have also observed in practice. I have my bleeder valves on my March on the in side myself. You would need at least a tee and a ball valve, I recommend a barb fitting as well and you may need at least one nipple ~$15-$25. I think they are likely on the right track with the center inlet, March pumps that differ in the pump head only (center vs side inlets) do have different rates with the center having slightly better stats. The Riptide's valve placement allegedly interferes with flow according to Spike as well. I think the Spike engineers have found that the integral valve may affect max flow different perhaps than a ball valve on the out. It seems to be what they are implying anyway. I agree with the Spike spokespeople in the video that typically there is a valve on the in ports of most typical brewing vessels that allow for easier flow manipulation as you can see inside the vessel without stooping. I use a valve on my BK whirlpool port and that's the port I use to transfer from my MT when sparging to throttle flow. I do however have a valve on the out of the pump as well which I use at different times such as controlling the sparge water flow into the MT and for throttling flow into the plate chiller for maximizing cooling and oxygenation. The out valve on the pump also makes hose transfer easier in my opinion. A 1/2" SS valve is about $10-$15 and you can pay more if you want to.
Really? They are located a few miles from my house in Monmouth County, NJ. And their tech support is located there as well. Are you sure you are not talking about knock-off chugger pumps?
https://www.chuggerpumps.com/chugger-world/
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No, I'm not confused at all. I've been to the Chugger facility in Wall dozens of times over the years to pick up pallets of pumps when they were the hot game in town. The reason why Chuggers were so popular was because they were a direct clone of the March 809 pumps but featured a stainless head for the price of March's plastic head. The reason that was possible was because they were manufactured offshore. There is no manufacturing happening in the Wall facility.
Ahh, wow, I stand corrected. I did not doubt you, but I am surprised to learn the pumps are from China. I thought Chugger pumps were made up the street for over six years. Thank you for clearing that up.
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OP
OP
SpikeBrewing
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Adam, Ryan and Michelle answer your Spike Flow questions in the latest Engineering AMA video. Some of the questions were asked from this thread so thanks again for always helping us out!!
Spike Flow product link:
https://spikebrewing.com/products/spike-flow
(Are you signed up for the pre-order??)
Spike Flow product link:
https://spikebrewing.com/products/spike-flow
(Are you signed up for the pre-order??)
Pre-sale on TC's gone already?????
had one in my cart but by the time I tried to pay for it, it was no longer an option.
had one in my cart but by the time I tried to pay for it, it was no longer an option.
Same here?
OP
OP
SpikeBrewing
Well-Known Member
Sorry guys! The pre sales sell out very quickly typically.
Well I'm not interested in the npt version. And I need a new pump, one if mine is starting to struggle. Not sure what I'll do now.
Good for you, sucks to be us 
As soon as I saw the e-mail I rushed to grab one. Couldn't have been more than 15 minutes
I fortunately didn't need one, but I wanted one!
As soon as I saw the e-mail I rushed to grab one. Couldn't have been more than 15 minutes
I fortunately didn't need one, but I wanted one!
Yeah, I thought I was on it but not quick enough.. guess I'll have to wait and hope mine holds out til the next batch arrives.
@SpikeBrewing I hate to even ask but any eta on the next round?
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SpikeBrewing
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Today was a preorder only so they won't be shipping for another 4+ weeks. Our full launch will be in about 5 weeks I believe. That also has limited stock and we expect to sell out. Demand for our new products has been far higher than projected which means it takes a little bit of time for us to get caught up.
Imhoppy
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@SpikeBrewing Any updates to pass along? Just checked the Spike web site and it says "Sign up to be notified of the official launch by clicking the button below."
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SpikeBrewing
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Any update on the TC launch date? Also, saw a review on your site where the pump head inlet was rusting. Is that an isolated issue? Thanks!
OP
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SpikeBrewing
Well-Known Member
Should be any day now! Be sure to sign up for the back in stock email on the site as that’s the only place we’ll be announcing since there is still limited stock. That’s isolated as that’s the only instance we’ve ever seen.
I got in on the next go-around! Can't wait to test it out
