NEW Product Launch - Spike Brew Pump

[SpikeBrewing]

Is that a stealth new product announcement?
Solo/BIAB system table too?

We have so many that we can't even keep track of them! HA We'll be coming out with a Solo table and a slightly re-designed Trio table.

 

[GMason]

Wille there be a 230v version?

 

[SpikeBrewing]

Wille there be a 230v version?

We don't ship outside the US and Canada so no plans at this time. However possibly in the future!

 

[SpikeBrewing]

Do you like getting sprayed in the face with hot sticky wort? Didn't think so. Neither do we. Enter the Air Release Valve (ARV)!

When we set out to design and build the best pump out there, we spent a lot of time, attention and testing on figuring out the best and easiest way to prime a brew pump. We found that placing a purge valve on the inlet side of the pump provides the best way of getting air out of your pump head and hoses. All you have to do is twist the easy to grip knurled knob, then water and air start to flow through the ARV outlet.

We even placed a little barb in the pump head casting that faces front and center, so it's super easy to collect the fluid out of the barb and either dump it back into your kettle or just keep your brewing space clean and dry.

The really cool thing is when you run into an especially tough priming situation, such as if you have a super long and empty inlet hose, or a big airlocked bubble stuck in your 50 foot HERMS coil downstream, you can open the priming valve while the pump is running and get that air out without the obnoxious spray going everywhere like pumps with purge valves on the outlet. Since the inlet of the pump doesn't produce any pressure, the valve can be open even when the pump is flowing and you won't get sprayed.

At the end of the day, it's just another way to make your Brew Day easier and smoother. Wort belongs in your kettle. Not on your pants.

Sign up for the pre-order today! Head to the link below
Sign up on the right side of the page under "Email When In Stock"
Spike Flow | Spike Brewing


​

 

[SpikeBrewing]

Ever deal with a clogged pump on brew day?? Well, with the all new Spike Flow that'll be a problem of the past. The Flow features integrated chopping tines on the impeller which chops up solids like hops, grain and trub which prevents clogging. Yes; our engiNERDS have thought of everything!

Use the link above to sign up for the limited re-order! Sign up on the right side of the Spike Flow product page.
Spike Flow | Spike Brewing

 

[Yesfan]

Ever deal with a clogged pump on brew day?? Well, with the all new Spike Flow that'll be a problem of the past. The Flow features integrated chopping tines on the impeller which chops up solids like hops, grain and trub which prevents clogging. Yes; our engiNERDS have thought of everything!

Use the link above to sign up for the limited re-order! Sign up on the right side of the Spike Flow product page.
Spike Flow | Spike Brewing


View attachment 769690​

Holy ****!, That's amazing! Now there's no need for me to ever mill my grains again.....


Seriously, that is cool!

 

[SpikeBrewing]

Is Brew Day your day of relaxation... until you turn on your pump? Is the big game on TV drowned out by your pump whining away in the background? Problem solved.

The new and upcoming Spike Flow is the quietest brew pump on the market. It's true—because we tested it. Many times. Due to the optimized pump head flow path design, coupled with a totally enclosed motor utilizing roller bearings, we've been able to achieve best in class quietness with the new Spike Flow!

Sign up for the pre-order on the right side of the product page using the link below!
Spike Flow | Spike Brewing​

 

[McMullan]

If we include the Spike symbol, a RipTide's a tad quieter I have a RipTide (European/220V model) and it's really quiet. If the Spike pump is quieter there's a danger you'll not be able to find it during operation Also, as a heavy metal fan with tinnitus and Greek friends, I think you've grossly underestimated 'normal conversation and background music'. Only joking, sounds like an excellent home-brew pump. The only serious issue is there's currently no European version What are you like?

 

[SpikeBrewing]

The engiNERDS had a little fun with the latest Engineering Q&A video. Watch the behind-the-scenes of the latest video showing off the new Spike Flow vs the competition. You can watch the full video on our YouTube channel. See why the Spike Flow is the most badass brew pump on the market!

Sign up for the pre order on the right side of the page using the link below!
https://spikebrewing.com/products/spike-flow​

 

[Deadalus]

Is Brew Day your day of relaxation... until you turn on your pump? Is the big game on TV drowned out by your pump whining away in the background? Problem solved.

The new and upcoming Spike Flow is the quietest brew pump on the market. It's true—because we tested it. Many times. Due to the optimized pump head flow path design, coupled with a totally enclosed motor utilizing roller bearings, we've been able to achieve best in class quietness with the new Spike Flow!

View attachment 774342

Sign up for the pre-order on the right side of the product page using the link below!
Spike Flow | Spike Brewing​

There's only a difference of 1.5-2 dB between the Spike (64.5dB), the Blichmann Riptide (64.5dB), and the March 815 (66.5dB). Since it was tested multiple times, you could put a confidence interval on the means or provide the standard errors and that would show more. You might not even see a statistical difference. Even the Kegland is pretty close. The Chugger appears a little bit louder but I bet most people wouldn't notice the small difference between the the first three. There's a reason why 0dB wasn't included on the vertical axis, the bars would be much harder to see any difference .

 

[SpikeBrewing]

There's only a difference of 1.5-2 dB between the Spike (64.5dB), the Blichmann Riptide (64.5dB), and the March 815 (66.5dB). Since it was tested multiple times, you could put a confidence interval on the means or provide the standard errors and that would show more. You might not even see a statistical difference. Even the Kegland is pretty close. The Chugger appears a little bit louder but I bet most people wouldn't notice the small difference between the the first three. There's a reason why 0dB wasn't included on the vertical axis, the bars would be much harder to see any difference .

Decibels are on the logarithmic scale so each increase in dB is a large change. An increase in only 6 dB is actually doubling how loud it is.

 

[Deadalus]

Decibels are on the logarithmic scale so each increase in dB is a large change. An increase in only 6 dB is actually doubling how loud it is.

Earthquakes are on a logarithmic scale too, but that doesn't make much difference in some ranges as you wouldn't even feel them. The range you are in is in between normal conversation level and office noise, inside of a car at 60 mph and that's the full range of 60-70 dB (10 dB). There's not much difference in perception between a normal conversation at home and adding in conversation at the office or in the car at 60mph. The difference between the three quietest is only a range of 1.5-2 dB, and within that broader range mentioned, doesn't sound to be particularly significant on hearing.

 

[SpikeBrewing]

Earthquakes are on a logarithmic scale too, but that doesn't make much difference in some ranges as you wouldn't even feel them. The range you are in is in between normal conversation level and office noise, inside of a car at 60 mph and that's the full range of 60-70 dB (10 dB). There's not much difference in perception between a normal conversation at home and adding in conversation at the office or in the car at 60mph. The difference between the three quietest is only a range of 1.5-2 dB, and within that broader range mentioned, doesn't sound to be particularly significant on hearing.

We'll let someone chime in that has owned a March or Chugger and now uses a Blichmann. It's very notably different. The Spike Flow will be even quieter!

 

[H.Stiglitz]

We'll let someone chime in that has owned a March or Chugger and now uses a Blichmann. It's very notably different. The Spike Flow will be even quieter!

I own a Chugger, and for the sake of science, I'd be willing to do side-by-side (real life) testing to solve this little debate. Free of charge of course

 

[Deadalus]

We'll let someone chime in that has owned a March or Chugger and now uses a Blichmann. It's very notably different. The Spike Flow will be even quieter!

Hold up there, I didn't say anyone wouldn't notice a difference between a Blichmann and the Chugger. That's almost 5 decibels. However, the difference between the Blichmann and the March, by your data, is 0.5 dB. Under 1 decibel is not considered to be a noticeable difference for the human ear with 3 dB generally considered to be a just noticeable difference.

 

[PT934]

I started using a pump to brew about 13 years ago with a March 809 pump with plastic head & NPT ports. I added a Blichmann Riptide pump w/ TC ports to my system about a year ago. I like the ease of breaking down and cleaning up of the Riptide head so I purchased the Blichmann riptide conversion kit for my March 809. It is a very easy swap, the only thing I don't like is it has NPT ports. TC's are just easy for me to set up / break down for cleaning. I also added a Vevor MP-15RM-110 pump with NPT ports for pumping just water (HLT recirc). The March is louder than the Vevor & Riptide, but not enough to make it a big deal. The riptide is a bit quieter than the Vevor, but not much. I wouldn't really lean on dB levels to sway my choice one way or the other, but there is a difference and with electric brewing you can hear the pumps. For recirculating they all work fine. For cleaning & moving liquids as fast as possible the Riptide is the go-to pump. The reasons I wanted the Riptide were TC fittings, priming valve, quick detach 3" TC head, flow control valve & on/off switch. After using the Riptide for over a year, I feel its a nice pump but I hate the flow control valve. It plugs up very easy, even open all the way. I don't use the on/off switch. The priming valve makes a mess. I picked up the Vevor on Ali express for ~$50 and if someone is looking for a cheap option to start using pumps for brewing it works great. It does take a lot more to set up / break down & clean than the other pumps. If I were to source another pump in the future the most important options to me are TC ports & quick detach head. I like the center inlet rather than the side inlet. The chopping tines seem like a good idea, I am curious how they do with orange peel. They plug the Riptide every time. I like how Spike did the bleed valve but I have pretty much set up my system so it isn't necessary. I am working on switching my setup to bottom drains and CIP so pump upgrades may be in my future.

@SpikeBrewing any plans to provide a conversion kit to switch over to your pump head utilizing an existing motor?

 

[Deadalus]

Those are all appreciated observations @PT934. As far as sound levels, I want to point out that @SpikeBrewing has set up an unfair "experiment" by asking for feedback from March (or Chugger) owners who switched to a Blichmann. In many cases, this would lead to switching from an older March pump to a newer Blichmann, as is most likely the situation you are in given that you had your March pump for 13 years before getting the Blichmann (not sure when these first came out).

Just a similar anecdote along these lines, I have a dishwasher rated at 54 dB. Over the years, various components have broken and I was looking into replacing it as it wasn't working. One feature touted by new models was they are quiet. I was thinking, "I really want a quieter one because this one is fairly loud." I started weighing the price of a new quieter one vs a possible fix of replacing the pump as the DW was having a sensor issue. I replaced the pump (OEM). It fixed the problem and it was significantly quieter. What I hadn't noticed was that over the years the pump had just worn down and gotten louder and louder. It never sounded broken either, I didn't have any leaks but the water sensor wasn't playing nice with it.

A fair comparison is testing new vs new or perhaps similarly aged models. Also, pump heads may play into it as well, as TC ports are smoother but I am just speculating there. There are almost no experimental methods provided for the claim in the first place.

 

[H.Stiglitz]

set up an unfair "experiment"

Its marketing man, gotta let this one go

 

[PT934]

I'm not sure about Spike doing anything unfair. They seem to be a very transparent and honest company to me. If dB levels are that important to someone sourcing a pump I believe the one @Bobby_M runs on his BIAB setup is pretty much silent. I feel as long as you can talk over the pump and the sound of it doesn't make you want to stick a broken hydrometer in your ear, its not that big of a deal.

 

[SpikeBrewing]

@SpikeBrewing any plans to provide a conversion kit to switch over to your pump head utilizing an existing motor?

Unfortunately we will not be offering a conversion kit. Everything is custom designed so we'd need to build custom conversion parts.

 

[PT934]

Unfortunately we will not be offering a conversion kit. Everything is custom designed so we'd need to build custom conversion parts.

I totally understand. I feel you have done a great job designing this pump and incorporating the most important options. I look forward to some reviews once these get out to some brewers.

 

[Deadalus]

Its marketing man, gotta let this one go

I know it's marketing but keeping them honest, it's a forum. I didn't give them any gruff about their other claims but "ultra-quiet" for what is is such a small difference is a bit much, particularly at 64.5 dB.

I'm not sure about Spike doing anything unfair. They seem to be a very transparent and honest company to me. If dB levels are that important to someone sourcing a pump I believe the one @Bobby_M runs on his BIAB setup is pretty much silent. I feel as long as you can talk over the pump and the sound of it doesn't make you want to stick a broken hydrometer in your ear, its not that big of a deal.

It's unfair to ask for evidence comparing an old pump to a new pump (agree or disagree?) but I completely agree that for the given results for the first three the difference is not going to be of any significance for most people.

 

[Nate R]

THIS is unfair:

View attachment 757871

I've been waiting cloae to 6 months and @SpikeBrewing has only released 2 things so far!

 

[PT934]

It's unfair to ask for evidence comparing an old pump to a new pump (agree or disagree?)

No, I don't think they are asking anything unfair. I think they asked people who have different pumps to give their opinion on how much noise they make. I guess I didn't read too much in to it as I have a "noisy" pump and a "quiet" pump and it isn't enough difference to effect my brew day. I would suggest if it is that important to you maybe you could do some testing and post your results.

I don't own any spike gear and don't have any connection with them. I was reading a thread about pumps and it mentioned people using different pumps and their observations. I posted what I have noticed while using the 3 pumps I have and my opinion on the spike design. Spike is trying to sell a pump and they say its quiet. That isn't something I care that much about. I scrolled past the dB chart and didn't pay any attention to that because similar to what you said above, I feel those charts don't always show what's really going on.

@Deadalus do you brew with a pump? Are you in the market for a new pump? Do you have any helpful observations you could share with people possibly looking to purchase a pump?

 

[Deadalus]

No, I don't think they are asking anything unfair. I think they asked people who have different pumps to give their opinion on how much noise they make. I guess I didn't read too much in to it as I have a "noisy" pump and a "quiet" pump and it isn't enough difference to effect my brew day. I would suggest if it is that important to you maybe you could do some testing and post your results.

I don't own any spike gear and don't have any connection with them. I was reading a thread about pumps and it mentioned people using different pumps and their observations. I posted what I have noticed while using the 3 pumps I have and my opinion on the spike design. Spike is trying to sell a pump and they say its quiet. That isn't something I care that much about. I scrolled past the dB chart and didn't pay any attention to that because similar to what you said above, I feel those charts don't always show what's really going on.

@Deadalus do you brew with a pump? Are you in the market for a new pump? Do you have any helpful observations you could share with people possibly looking to purchase a pump?

Why yes, I am in the market for a new pump(s), I built a three vessel 2 pump (both March) EHerms system which I will be using twice in the next week. One of my pumps has been cavitating which after various maintenance procedures appears to be related to decoupling at higher temperatures (sparging, water pump). My investigation of the matter however is inconclusive based on limited observations from other users (really a side issue here.) My helpful observation is to ask the vendor to make fairly determined claims in their marketing and not ask for/present data that is not, i.e. consumer advocacy. As a scientist, I would immediately note that comparing an old pump to a new one could lead to potentially biased results for this given scenario. While I am tempted to purchase a Blichmann and Spike simultaneously in the future to conduct a comparison, I can't say I will have the funds to do both nor do I have the specific scientific equipment and expertise to appropriately test some of the pump characteristics. But as far as sound, substantial information exists to indicate that the given range of 1.5-2.0 dB is a barely noticeable difference. I will add though one thought and that is with a two pump system, that small difference might more noticeable when both pumps are operating, which occurs for me during mashing and when I am fly sparging. Depending on one's preferences, both pumps may also be in operation when heating the strike water.

I only notice a difference in noise when I have to turn my music up while brewing. I can't recall for certain whether I do that with pump changes (1 vs. 2) but I do know I have to do that when I turn my exhaust fan up to 7 or 8. I'll be sure to note it though in upcoming brews!

I do think the black is pretty badass.

 

[Bobby_M]

Anything as quiet as the Riptide is quiet enough. Small improments wont really be noticed because the element running is at least as noisy. If anything is to be gleaned from this chart is that the Spike pump is very quiet and you wont be unhappy with the noise. The open frame March and chuggers are noticeably noisy and more so if you run two at the same time.

 

[PT934]

The new and upcoming Spike Flow is the quietest brew pump on the market. It's true—because we tested it. Many times.

Maybe @SpikeBrewing would be willing to share some details about their testing process as well as actual dB measurements of different pumps? I'm also curious where the Topsflo TD5 lands on the chart. I feel it is a common pump in brew systems these days.

As I have said, the range of sound brewing pumps make isn't important to me. When I brew, my idea of relaxing is having some sort of rock from the 80's & 90's blaring in my shop. Pump noise doesn't really register. I understand other people will have different ideas of a relaxing brew and the quietest pump would be important to them. If its that important maybe come up with a system that doesn't require pumps? There are options out there for this.

I do think the black is pretty badass.

My old March pump is Black... Spike does do a great job with the "bling".

 

[Deadalus]

Anything as quiet as the Riptide is quiet enough. Small improments wont really be noticed because the element running is at least as noisy. If anything is to be gleaned from this chart is that the Spike pump is very quiet and you wont be unhappy with the noise. The open frame March and chuggers are noticeably noisy and more so if you run two at the same time.

What is striking me here though is that the data presented is showing the Riptide at only 0.5 dB lower than the March 815, with 1 dB usually being barely noticeable. I'm not doubting anyone saying they can tell the difference. But reports that people do hear the difference make me wonder several things:
1. Do they have excellent hearing?
2. Are the reported values wrong?
3. Are there testing differences such as models tested, configuration differences, a random mismatch where a good pump and a bad pump were picked for testing.
Plus separately,
4. Why are the March and Chugger that much apart, a little over 4 dB?? I have March 809s which the head is interchangeable with the Chugger, not sure about the 815s but 809s and 815s are nearly the same. If my 809 is more like the Chugger than either the Spike or Blichmann would be an improvement but if my 809 is just like the 815 then perhaps just the Spike will be noticeably different as I have slight hearing loss.
Just food for thought on the sound front.

A very nice feature in my opinion between the Blichmann and Spike vs. March and Chugger is the 3" TC on the pump heads. Having to take off 8 screws to get inside becomes a chore particularly when it is necessary during brewing. Plus it's a real PITA to find a replacement SS screw when you lose one.

 

[Bobby_M]

What is striking me here though is that the data presented is showing the Riptide at only 0.5 dB lower than the March 815, with 1 dB usually being barely noticeable.
...Why are the March and Chugger that much apart, a little over 4 dB?? I have March 809s which the head is interchangeable with the Chugger, not sure about the 815s but 809s and 815s are nearly the same. If my 809 is more like the Chugger than either the Spike or Blichmann would be an improvement but if my 809 is just like the 815 then perhaps just the Spike will be noticeably different as I have slight hearing loss.
Just food for thought on the sound front.

A very nice feature in my opinion between the Blichmann and Spike vs. March and Chugger is the 3" TC on the pump heads. Having to take off 8 screws to get inside becomes a chore particularly when it is necessary during brewing. Plus it's a real PITA to find a replacement SS screw when you lose one.

I'm not 100% confident but if you look at the Chuggers and March 809s, you can see the frame of the motor has much larger vent holes. I know that the early chuggers had smaller vents and were more prone to overheating when the ambient environment was really hot. There are a few sub-models of the March 815 but the -PL version seems to have smaller vents and that may lend to less noise.

I agree that the 3" TC heads are a game changer in that class of pump, at that price point for many users. I personally don't take my pump head apart almost ever so it's not as important. I think the decision between Riptide and Spike is going to come down to brand loyalty first, then maybe the choice between built in throttling valve vs external/add-on throttling valve or wanting absolute highest pressure and flow for CIP. I don't see anyone replacing a working Riptide with a Spike pump due to the nominal performance increases.

Maybe @SpikeBrewing would be willing to share some details about their testing process as well as actual dB measurements of different pumps? I'm also curious where the Topsflo TD5 lands on the chart. I feel it is a common pump in brew systems these days.

The TD5 is nearly silent. Some individual units are slightly noisier but many of them can be running 4ft away and you wouldn't know they are on. Flow and pressure performance is more inline with the March/Chugger so the running noise level isn't really everything.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

That is not true!
March Manufacturing pumps are US made!

Same for Chugger pumps, USA-made.

 

[McMullan]

I think the main reason I liked the look of the Spike pump is because I've been using a RipTide pump for a few years. The design looks so remarkably similar I'd guess the same factory knocks out the base units. As far as the small improvements bigged up in Spike's marketing speil go, I don't use the RipTide's purge valve (it sits far enough below the liquid level to 'self prime'), I haven't ever had a blockage, so 'cutting tines' aren't on my list, and I struggle to see how front Vs side inlet makes that much of a difference. And, although I have a transformer to power US 110v equipment, it's a PITA. So I'm definitely out.

 

[Bobby_M]

Same for Chugger pumps, USA-made.

No sir. Chugger pumps are made in China.

 

[Deadalus]

I recently viewed a couple videos comparing different pumps, including the video above in post #49 from Spike. One video did a sound comparison of the March (didn't catch the specific model, side inlet) and the Riptide. The Riptide is quieter by my ear, no instrument measurements were made. Another video used a phone app to measure decibels, so while perhaps not a dedicated instrument, there were significant differences in measurement between a Chugger (90dB), a March (88dB) and a Riptide(72dB). The March and Chugger were about the same, the sounds were different in composition mainly to me. The Riptide did sound quieter than both and was 16dB less than the March and 18 dB less than the Chugger. I will point out that the tester appears to have a new Riptide vs his current March as it is mentioned to have been used as well as probably still missing its thrust washer. He's very upfront though and the comparisons are pretty reasonable.

Spike doesn't run the pumps in a sound test in their video above, they present their data in a figure. And having watched their video, I got the impression that their engineers put a lot of time into designing the pump head for flow and so I suspect that they at least used decent instruments to measure sound as well. Their results for the March 815 and Riptide are so close (0.5 dB), I have to wonder if some of these other video comparisons (Non-Spike) are seeing differences because of older March pumps vs. new Blichmanns. I am also going to note that Blichmann advertises the Riptide at 50dB. Best comparison for 50 dB I could find is moderate rainfall, with 60 dB being normal conversation.

I wasn't able to brew on Sunday, so only brewed once this weekend. I did make it a point to note the difference between one and two pumps being on and that is significant enough to turn up the music volume some.

And as I said, I watched Spike's video. The bleeder valve design on the Flow is likely superior. They note that it is probably more important to have a solid column of liquid on the in side for priming which I have also observed in practice. I have my bleeder valves on my March on the in side myself. You would need at least a tee and a ball valve, I recommend a barb fitting as well and you may need at least one nipple ~$15-$25. I think they are likely on the right track with the center inlet, March pumps that differ in the pump head only (center vs side inlets) do have different rates with the center having slightly better stats. The Riptide's valve placement allegedly interferes with flow according to Spike as well. I think the Spike engineers have found that the integral valve may affect max flow different perhaps than a ball valve on the out. It seems to be what they are implying anyway. I agree with the Spike spokespeople in the video that typically there is a valve on the in ports of most typical brewing vessels that allow for easier flow manipulation as you can see inside the vessel without stooping. I use a valve on my BK whirlpool port and that's the port I use to transfer from my MT when sparging to throttle flow. I do however have a valve on the out of the pump as well which I use at different times such as controlling the sparge water flow into the MT and for throttling flow into the plate chiller for maximizing cooling and oxygenation. The out valve on the pump also makes hose transfer easier in my opinion. A 1/2" SS valve is about $10-$15 and you can pay more if you want to.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

No sir. Chugger pumps are made in China.

Really? They are located a few miles from my house in Monmouth County, NJ. And their tech support is located there as well. Are you sure you are not talking about knock-off chugger pumps?

Chugger Pumps Home Brewing Pumps - Homebrewing Product Line

Home Brewing Pumps: Classic Inline and Center Inlet Chugger Pumps & Replacement Heads, Stainless Steel & Poly Chugger Max & Chugger Mini Max Models

www.chuggerpumps.com

 

[Bobby_M]

Really? They are located a few miles from my house in Monmouth County, NJ. And their tech support is located there as well. Are you sure you are not talking about knock-off chugger pumps?

Chugger Pumps Home Brewing Pumps - Homebrewing Product Line

Home Brewing Pumps: Classic Inline and Center Inlet Chugger Pumps & Replacement Heads, Stainless Steel & Poly Chugger Max & Chugger Mini Max Models

www.chuggerpumps.com

No, I'm not confused at all. I've been to the Chugger facility in Wall dozens of times over the years to pick up pallets of pumps when they were the hot game in town. The reason why Chuggers were so popular was because they were a direct clone of the March 809 pumps but featured a stainless head for the price of March's plastic head. The reason that was possible was because they were manufactured offshore. There is no manufacturing happening in the Wall facility.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

No, I'm not confused at all.

View attachment 776189

Ahh, wow, I stand corrected. I did not doubt you, but I am surprised to learn the pumps are from China. I thought Chugger pumps were made up the street for over six years. Thank you for clearing that up.

 

[SpikeBrewing]

Adam, Ryan and Michelle answer your Spike Flow questions in the latest Engineering AMA video. Some of the questions were asked from this thread so thanks again for always helping us out!!

Spike Flow product link:
https://spikebrewing.com/products/spike-flow
(Are you signed up for the pre-order??)​

 

[Ki-ri-n]

Pre-sale on TC's gone already?????

had one in my cart but by the time I tried to pay for it, it was no longer an option.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Same here?

 

[SpikeBrewing]

Sorry guys! The pre sales sell out very quickly typically.