New Obsession: La Maudite (Unibroue)

[Glibbidy]

First off let me prepare you. My friend is not into belgian, or as he calls them weird beers. He considers any phenolic taste in a beer flawed. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Here is what he sent me today after his tour this week. take it wtih a grain of phenol.

---------SNIP>
i don't know why u would bother trying to replicate these beers. they ranged from mediocre to unsaleable. most of them were just awful, and all but 1 or 2 were highlky phenolic. one could make the excuse that "it's part of the style", but i really dislike phenolic beers. nonetheless, there is nothing "to style" about a phenolic pilsner. anyway...

the malt is canada malting, essentially identical (but cheaper) to the domestic malt you're getting ... harrington/klages blend. the specialty malts are hugh baird, which i think you're also getting . curacao orange is used in the blanche, licorice, anise, cardamom also used in their beers. hops are barely used, saaz, hallertau, golding, all typical of belgian beers. 4 diff yeasts are used for their various ales, 1 per brew, but the yeast used for refermentation may not be the same as the 1 used in primary. beers are centrifuged and unfiltered, the centrifugation prob removes the vast majority, then pasteurized. cane sugar to increase alc by .5% added with the "bottle" yeast, then stored 3 weeks at 25c b4 release. we can do the math later to determine the exact amount of sugar needed to recreate their carbonation levels.

the lagers were a little better. i had a perfectly nice pils at their restaurant, and an ok honey pils at the brewery, batch 1 on the bottling line as we went thru, so it was absolutely fresh, but i don't have anything nice to say about it otherwise. beers filtered thru d.e. and tunnel pasteurized
----------SNIP>

With that said I will be bugging him for additional help in developing a clone for maudite. Despite his disdain for this style, he is actually quite brilliant, and should be able to provide additional valuable insight.
Baron, I think we are getting somewhere with this.

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

Cool. I'm currently trying to cultivate the yeast from a bottle of Maudite. However, according to this information it may not be the primary strain. I might go ahead and order the Wyeast. The spicing will be hard to recreate, but there are lots of Indian groceries around here, so the spices will be cheap.

 

[Glibbidy]

I'm waiting on cultivating the yeast from the bottle at this time. I'm going to look into this a little further before I order the Wyeast 3864. My friend indicated that they use at least for different strains for their brews, not including the one for refermentation.

Any verifyable data on the Wyeast 3864 as the same strain used in Maudite, or is it just non specific yeast.

Wyeast describes it as:
3864 Canadian/Belgian Style Yeast. From a Franco-Belgie Canadian brewery which produces many styles of classic Belgian beers. Mild phenolics, which increase with elevated fermentation temperatures. Low ester profile with a dry, slightly tart finish. Complex and well-balanced, alcohol tolerant. Flocculation - medium; apparent attenuation: 75-79%. (65-80° F, 18-27° C)

This conflicts with the information my friend obtained. I wonder if they start with the 3864, and then let the yeast take on the characteristics of the indivi dual beers by repitching in those specific beers. makes sense?

I'll consider borrowing my friends lab to do a little analysis of the yeast found in the maudite bottles, and compare that with the 3864 strain under the microscope.

Let me know if you know how one may be able to obtain the curacao orange. That's may be difficult for me to get locally even with a resource like the Brattleboro food coop.

 

[Glibbidy]

I spoke with my resource in a little more depth today. While he was adamant about Unibroue using at least four diferent yeast strains for their products. We concluded that they use the same strain for bottle refermentation for all their beers.

He reported that he saw no belgian candy sugar in the brewhouse whatsoever, so we have also concluded that their beers are likely all malt, with some flaked barley wherever necc. ( He observed bags of it in the brewery).

Instead of procuring the 3864 strain I have decided to cultivate the yeast they use for refermentation and then use this yeast for primary fermentation, as well as bottle refermentation.

I'm going to work on a Grist over the next couple days and see what I can come up with, and maybe try to shoot for brewing this on Memorial day:rockin:

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

My understanding is that Unibroue just uses sugar for their beers instead of Belgian candi sugar. I've seen that referenced in a few places. My reculturing efforts are tbd...I'll probably be doing a spin of the Highland Gaelic and shoot for a Maudite-esque beer in a few weeks. I've got a grist put together at home I can post later.

 

[Glibbidy]

I'd like to see that and compare notes.

Thanks B!

 

[gauthierk]

I love La Maudite. As a matter of fact, it was the beer that opened my eyes past the typical american beers... The guy at my LHBS gave me this recipe and said that he tried it and it was very very very close to Maudite.

5.5 lb 55% Pilsener Malt
2.5 lb 25% Munich Malt
1.0 lb 10% Malted wheat
1.0 lb 10% piloncillo


1.0 oz 60 min Northern brewer (7% AA)
1.5 oz 30 min Saaz (3% AA)
2.0 oz 5 min Kent Goldings (5% AA)

Last five minutes of the boil

0.67 Indian coriander
Zest of 1 seville/sour orange or 1 regular orange plus zest from one fourth a grapefruit
0.25 tsp grains of paradise or black pepper coarsely crushed
0.25 tsp clove

The yeast he said he used was cultured from a bottle of maudite...

I haven't quite moved myself up to AG brewing yet so let me know if anyone tries this and it is close....

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

Thanks, g! I'll feed this into the machine and see what I get...haven't cultured this yeast yet (need to try a 750ml, I think) so it's still in the queue.

 

[Rodan]

hey guys,

Im 95% sure that the yeast strain that unibroue uses is highly protected. I personally LOVE unibroue but from what ive heard that yeast strain was cultured from the wild and had to be worked with to tame it. Because of this, the original strain is filtered before bottling takes place, and a different, more neutral yeast strain is used for bottle conditioning.

The Wyeast canadian/belgian strain 3864 is pretty good. Ive used it in a AG triple i brewed. From what ive observed, to get the crazy complexity that comes close to unibroue, you have to ferment that strain at high temperatures, like 28 degrees celcius. I didnt ferment it that high so i didnt get the complexity, although one can taste/smell basic similarities to the unibroue strain. Still, i maintain that the 3864 is not the unibroue strain, even though its close. The flavours of the 3864 are not nearly as wild as the unibroue strain.

By the way, do you know the history? I guess the brewmaster is certified from traditional begian schools of brewing, which is where the tamed wild yeast idea comes from. I dont know where they got the strain from though (canada or belgium). The brewery began independant, then was PURCHASED by Sleemans about 5 years ago. Now, more recently, the Sleemans empire has been purchased my SAPPORO, so Sapporo owns Unibroue.... which sucks....

AND, dont bother saving your emply 750ml unibroue bottles unless you have mushroom corks... plastic champagne corks wont work because they are about 1-2 mm to small.... big suprise to me. And mushroom corks are so expensive!! To bad!!

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

You know, I had forgotten about this project. It'll probably stay on hold in my case for a while, but if anybody comes up with a good Maudite clone post up!

 

[Cheesefood]

I'm drinking my first Maudite tonight. First impression: hot. Even when served at about 40', it's got some burn to it.

I'm not impressed by Unibroue overall. I prefer taste over ABV.

 

[Evets]

I have a bottle each of Maudite and Trois Pistoles in the fridge which were part of a mixed 12-pack raffle at the local HB club, which I won last month. I'll try one or both tomorrow, I think.

 

[themikehall]

Is the unibroue 10 still available? Or was that an anniversary beer? I had it a while ago and enjoyed it a lot. Although i am fan of most of the unibroue beers.

 

[Glibbidy]

Is the unibroue 10 still available? Or was that an anniversary beer? I had it a while ago and enjoyed it a lot. Although i am fan of most of the unibroue beers.

Good Question, All Iknow is I got a few bottles of the Unibroue 15 aging in my basement!

 

[zoebisch01]

Ok so, on a friggin whim I decided to get a case of the Sampler.

I tried a Fin du Monde and a Trois Pistoles, my wife tried an Ephemere.

I really dig the Fin du Monde. This is an excellent interpretation of a Trappist style triple fermented ale. High ratings! The Trois was very good as well, and the Ephemere had an incredible presentation in the glass...so effervescent. The green apple is quite up front, it is good but reminds me of Jolly Ranchers apple. My favorite thus far was the Fin. Unfortunately they are so smooth, I shouldn't have had the two! 9% is high my friends .

Maybe tonight I'll try a Maudite. It was kind of cool actually, the sampler was supposed to have 9 bottles x 3...2 Fin's, 2 Maudite, 2 Trois (I think), 1 Ephemere and 1 Don but it came with 1 Trois and some other one I can't find on their site...some "dark beer" as it were. Fwiw, this is probably the best variety sampler I have seen and imo that is what a sampler should be! Course it is fairly expensive, but then again this isn't a guzzle-it-down beer either.

 

[Torchiest]

Unibroue might be my very favorite brewery in the world. They have an amazing assortment of quality beers. I always thought of the Fin du Monde as more of a Duvel-like golden ale, but either way, it's TASTY.

Trois Pistoles is my favorite though. If you like the darker ones, you should definitely see if you can find a bottle of the Terrible. It's around 10%, and it only comes in 750mL bottles, but it's fantastic.

I just brewed a crude Ephemere clone earlier this week. I'd like to try and come close to Trois Pistoles one of these days as well.

 

[zoebisch01]

I just brewed a crude Ephemere clone earlier this week. I'd like to try and come close to Trois Pistoles one of these days as well.

They would certainly be a brewery to shoot for in terms of quality and excellence. If you are going to clone, that is a good one.

 

[Glibbidy]

I'm headed to Philthadelphia this weekend, and will be swinginng by the LHBS in town where I grewup. As a result I have been fooling around with developing this clone again.

2-row Pale Malt

​

60.00%
Crystal Malt

​

4.00%
Belgian Cara-Vienne Malt

​

6.00%
Belgian Aromatic Malt

​

6.00%
Belgian Special B Malt

​

10.00%
Munich Malt

​

10.00%
Malted Wheat

​

2.50%
Flaked Barley

​

1.50%

Hops IBU's
EKG 15 Kettle
Hallertau 7 Middle
Saaz 5 Late

I have omitted the sugar this time around in hopes of coming up with something more closely aligned with the beer. As my friend mentioned he did not see any candy sugar at the brewery.
I'm winging the hop schedule, as well as keeping it simple, and will likely tweak it some more before it's brewed. I'll be shooting for a SG ~ 1.077 which may be a little on the high side, but what the hey?

I hear they discontinued the W3864, so it's back to the drawing board on the yeast. Perhaps WLP500 Trappist Ale Yeast or the WLP 530 Belgin abbey yeast for primary fermentation, and then krausen with some yeast cultured from a 750 ml bottle of Maudite for bottling.

 

[DeathBrewer]

sounds awesome. btw, just tried unibroue's new "16". it was available at bevmo and is one tasty beverage

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

Sounds interesting! I've drifted a little bit and aim to do a saison saisoon. (boo)

 

[McKBrew]

I bought the big bottle of Maudite tonight. Will be giving it a taste test in the next couple of days.

 

[Torchiest]

I'm headed to Philthadelphia this weekend, and will be swinginng by the LHBS in town where I grewup. As a result I have been fooling around with developing this clone again.

Recipe looks pretty good, although I'm a little confused about using wheat and flaked barley. Seems like all the other grains will give you enough head retention, unless you have something else in mind with those. The hops schedule looks good to me, pretty similar to what I did, actually. And, FWIW, I used the WLP530 Abbey Ale in my Trois Pistoles clone, which is coming along in secondary nicely and tastes great and fairly close to the real thing.

 

[Glibbidy]

Recipe looks pretty good, although I'm a little confused about using wheat and flaked barley. Seems like all the other grains will give you enough head retention, unless you have something else in mind with those.

Naturally this combo is done to aid in head retention. I added a tiny amount of the flaked barley due to the fact that my friend who toured the brewey observed it as one of thier raw materials. I like blending malts on this level just enough to keep the drinker guessing what's in it.

 

[McKBrew]

Finally got around to trying a small sample tonight. I have a fairly nasty cold with stuffy head, so I probably didn't get the full effect, but what i tasted, i liked. This beer was nice and malty, and somewhat comparable to the Chimay Blue i had. Reminded me of bread.

Even better, the bottles are about 4 bucks less than Chimay.

 

[Torchiest]

I just bottled my Trois Pistoles clone tonight, in 750mL belgian bottles. It's really close, and VERY tasty! I'm totally jazzed about it. I can't wait to pop one in about a month!

 

[DeathBrewer]

i'm going to try out a Trois Pistoles clone soon. Is it the one from Beer Captured?

 

[Torchiest]

No, I put it together myself after looking at some other recipes. Here it is, if you're curious:

Three Pistol Whipping
10.00 lb Pale Liquid Extract
0.75 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L
0.75 lb Caramunich Malt
0.25 lb Biscuit Malt
0.13 lb Chocolate Malt
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [4.00%] (40 min)
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [6.90%] (15 min)
1.00 oz Saaz [3.80%] (0 min)
0.25 tsp Coriander Seed (Boil 15.0 min)
0.25 oz Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 15.0 min)
1.00 lb Candi Sugar, Clear
1.00 lb Candi Sugar, Dark
1 Pkgs Abbey Ale (White Labs #WLP530)

 

[DeathBrewer]

right on. looks like a killer brew. i wish my gulden draak would finish faster so i can start on another belgian-style myself.

 

[Torchiest]

Haha, I hear that. Right after I finished bottling it, I was immediately getting paranoid and freaking out about running out of it, and planning my next belgian ale. Ridiculous, but what can I say? I love 'em.

 

[Kieva]

I too have also been looking for a Maudite recipe. Best I can find out is that a guy named Christopher Clair won 3rd place in a competition for his clone.

I am going to email him and see if I can find anymore out. Hopefully he is a helpful guy.