New Obsession: La Maudite (Unibroue)

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Stimulus

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Has anyone been able to determine if they use the same yeast for bottling or not? I see it both ways on this thread.

I want to make something similar to La Fin and if they use different yeasts I'll probably just use the 3522 I have a ton of.
 

Paco

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From my brew log, Maudite clone v2 and v3 are very close to the real thing. The recipe is still too complex IMVHO; most advanced brewers to who I have discussed this with said that I definitely should think simple to clone Unibroue beers. I received very good comments when I present v2 to my HBC. One, a BJCP judge I think, said he would have score high this beer.:eek:

The yeast define the profile. You need WY 3864-PC. WY "support" said that the next closest yeast to 3864 is Belgian Witbier (WY 3944?). I tend to doubt but I haven't tried yet. I have divided my last two versions in two (40 L batches into ~20L carboys) to try other Belgian yeasts for comparison. I have founded WY 3522 to be far from 3864 profile but very interesting for "dark" Belgians. Fermentis S-23 was very boring. Maybe this one could be "good" for pale Belgians; Belgian Pale Ale, Belgian Blond, maybe Tripel and Golden Strong too... 3864 is very spicy and can be a bit too phenolic at first (weeks). I have founded that 8 to 12 weeks aging does the trick. Pitch rate is also "critical" like with other Belgian yeast where you want to narrow down a specific signature.

Also, I have sampled the original thing for FG and it is ~1.016-18. I seriously question the specifications on the web site; SRM=18 & IBU=22 doesn't sound right to me.

Yes, they use the same yeast, I was told so, but they use fresh yeast for bottling... obviously.

Thanks to this thread, I got started on this project to clone La Maudite!:mug:
 

Stimulus

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Excellent! Looks like I finally get to use that Erlenmeyer flask I bought to culture some yeast from the bottle.

Also a good excuse to go buy a four pack of this again.
 

Mermaid

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From my own experience working with WY3864, fermented on the cool side (high 60s- low 70s) produces a lovely almost citruisy quality in the yeast. I brewed a Belgian honey blond ale a couple months ago and used 3864 from my fridge yeast bank.

My creation while not Unibroue, has that wonderful tartness to it from the yeast, carbonation is lovely and it smells heavenly. It also never cleared for me, despite whirlfloc, cold crashing, and gelatin. 3864 is a beast, but mighty tasty.

Definitely go with a simple grain bill, and don't let the fermentation temps get too high. It takes off pretty quick, and finishes nicely as well.
 

chrisdb

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Maudite is absolutely, hands down, my favorite beer. I stumbled across it in Quebec...bought it because I was at Winter Carnaval, and the convenience store owner explained the flying canoe label this way:

Back when Quebec was still almost entirely wild country, a group of fur trappers was up the St. Lawrence trapping beaver when a fall storm blew in and froze up the river. The trappers desperately wanted to get back to Quebec City in time for the drunken debauchery of Winter Carnaval, so they struck a deal with the devil. In exchange for their souls, the devil provided them with a flying canoe, so they could soar above the frozen river to the city to participate in the drunken revelry.

Great story...better beer. Maudite was what inspired me to start brewing. If it wasn't so ruinously expensive here in Texas, I'd drink nothing else.

I searched for a clone last year and this was what I found:

20 litres Maudite

7 lbs 2 row malt
6 lbs light Munich malt
2 lbs wheat malt
0.25 lbs Belgian Aromatic malt
0.25 lbs light crystal malt
0.10 lbs chocolate malt

Mash at 69C for 90 minutes

1 lb brown sugar added to boil for 20 minutes
then 1 oz Tetnanger 5.7% AA for 60 minutes
0.5 oz Hershbrucker 4.9% AA for 20 minutes

pitch with White Labs Trappist Ale Yeast

Fermented at 20C
subscribe
 

drudo001

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Hey all,

Thanks for the great input on the Maudite clone. It seems to me that one of the most important aspects of Unibroue's unique style is derived from yeast. I am curious if anyone else gets a Brett flavor from any of their beers. In this thread I have seen more than one reference to taming the wild yeast. What would you all say to their "protected yeast strains" being some blend of Sacchromyces and Brettanomyces? The flavors I get from Don de Deux and Le Fin du Monde don't seem to be accounted for fully by spice or grain additions.

Any new information on the clone attempts? I believe I will try a Don de Deux clone when I am content with my yeast research.

Thanks!
 

TheWulf

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I would absolutely be up for a Don de Dieu clone... probably my favourite Unibroue beer.

My brother lives about a half hour from the brewery... I should make it out there sometime.
 

cwheel

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From my brew log, Maudite clone v2 and v3 are very close to the real thing.
Paco, not sure if this is the most up-to-date Maudite thread or not, but I brewed your v3 recipe with some minor tweaks, and it is SPOT ON. Absolutely delicious. Here's what I did:


15 lbs Pilsner (2 row)
10.0 oz Biscuit Malt
10.0 oz Special B
8.0 oz Aromatic Malt
8.0 oz Caramunich Malt I
8.0 oz Carapils (Briess)
1 lbs Candi Sugar, Amber (actually just 1 lb sugar, boiled with lemon juice for 20 minutes at 250F)
2.00 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Boil 40.0 min
6.00 g Seeds of Paradise (Boil 15.0 mins)
1.00 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 15.0 mins)
0.50 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 15.0 mins)
4 cloves

And of course the Wyeast Canadian Belgian yeast, which is a must for this recipe.
 

UPBrewer

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I brewed a 10 gal. batch in late August. It's closer to Tres Pistoles due to mash efficiency (82%). It has the color and aroma of Maudite but it's 8.9% abv. I used "Stout Fan's" recipe posted on Brewboard downsized to 10 gallons.


A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 10.00 Wort Size (Gal): 10.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 25.85
Anticipated OG: 1.079 Plato: 19.00
Anticipated SRM: 13.5
Anticipated IBU: 22.2
Brewhouse Efficiency: 82 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 15.29 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.065 SG 15.82 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------81.3 21.00 lbs. Pilsner Belgium 1.037 2
2.9 0.75 lbs. CaraMunich Malt Belgium 1.033 45
2.9 0.75 lbs. CaraFoam Germany 1.037 2
2.6 0.70 lbs. Aromatic Malt Belgium 1.036 22
3.4 0.88 lbs. Biscuit Malt Belgium 1.035 19
3.9 1.00 lbs. Special B Malt Belgian 1.030 120
3.0 0.77 lbs. Turbinado Sugar Generic 1.046 0

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
3.00 oz. Hallertau Hersbrucker, Whole 4.40 19.8 60 min.
1.00 oz. Styrian Goldings, Pellet 1.4 2.3 60 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.77 Oz Bitter Orange Peel Spice 15 Min.(boil)
5.00 Unit(s)Clove, whole Spice 15 Min.(boil)
0.77 Oz Corriander Seed Spice 15 Min.(boil)
4.00 gm Grains of Paradise Spice 15 Min.(boil)
0.50 tsp SuperMoss Fining 10 Min.(boil)
6.00 gm White Pepper Spice 15 Min.(boil)


Yeast
-----

WYeast 3864 Canadian / Belgian 2 ltr. starter


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Type: Single Step

Grain Lbs: 25.85
Water Qts: 34.00 - Before Additional Infusions
Water Gal: 8.50 - Before Additional Infusions

Qts Water Per Lbs Grain: 1.36 - Before Additional Infusions

Saccharification Rest Temp : 152 Time: 120
Mash-out Rest Temp : 168 Time: 10
Sparge Temp : 170 Time: 10


Total Mash Volume Gal: 10.51 - Dough-In Infusion Only

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.

2 week primary, 30 day secondary. Racked to keg & filtered to carboy for priming/bottling. Pitched 1 ltr US05 starter & 210 gm corn sugar.

FG = 1.011
 

rhys333

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Bringing this thread back from the dead.

Just picked up 6 bottles of Maudite and I'm happy to see the bottles are thick with dregs. Based on comments that this beer is bottled with the primary strain, I'm attempting to harvest the yeast.

Btw, tasty beer, if a tad on the sweet side.
 

UPBrewer

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Sorry, I didn't know threads died. Why bother harvesting yeast? Wyeast has now made W3864 a premium strain. Released Jan. thru Mar. You can usually get it until late May. 2nd keg tasted more like La Fin. Very pleased with the result.
 

rhys333

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I had no idea I could buy yeast strains commercially. This is great news. If only they sold beer in stores, I could stop this brewing chore altogether.
 

carola1155

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Don't know if this is posted yet, but I saw this on another thread awhile back.
--------------

Trois Pistoles
Unibroue
Bottled: 3.5 oz. cane sugar
IBU predicted: 32.2
ABV predicted: 9.9%
Style: Belgian Dark Strong Ale
Compliance w/ style: 99% (9% ABV is max for style)

Gravity post-boil: 1.094 @ 75 °
Gravity pre-secondary: 1.020 @ 70 °
Gravity at bottling: 1.018 @ 60 °
Yield: 53 bottles

18 lbs. Belgian Pils
0.75 lbs. Belgian Aromatic
0.75 lbs. Belgian Biscuit
0.5 lbs. Belgian Caramunich
0.25 lbs. Belgian Special B
0.125 lbs. Belgian Chocolate Malt
0.5 lbs. Belgian Cara-Pils
1.5 lbs. Candi Sugar Clear
1.0 oz. Willamette (Whole, 4.5 %AA) boiled 60 min.
0.25 oz. Mt. Hood (Whole, 4.5 %AA) boiled 45 min.
0.25 oz. Willamette (Whole, 4.5 %AA) boiled 30 min.
0.33 oz. Mt. Hood (Whole, 4.5 %AA) boiled 15 min.
0.33 oz. Willamette (Whole, 4.5 %AA) boiled 15 min.
0.5 oz. Mt. Hood (Whole, 4.5 %AA) boiled 1 min.
0.5 oz. Willamette (Whole, 4.5 %AA) boiled 1 min.
Yeast :White Labs WLP500 Trappist Ale


^^ As far as the yeast above I would use Wyeast 3864, if you can't find it, then I'd probably go with 1388 or WLP570
I know its an old post... but I have a couple quick criticisms of this recipe. First, what kind of efficiency is it calculated off? seems like an awful lot of base grain for a 9.9% beer. I popped it into my beersmith with a 72% mash efficiency and came up with an OG of 1.119 and estimated abv of 13.6%!

Also, the color is way off. Unibroue lists it as 32.2 SRM (http://www.unibroue.com/en/beers/18) and that recipe is showing up as 17.1 for me.

I would drop the grains to 13# of pils and then use 1# of Dark candi syrup instead of the clear. That should get you closer to target.

Also, a simpler hop schedule of something like styrian or saaz with a 60 min and a 15 min addition to get you to the 15 IBUs would probably be better
 

carola1155

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Also, I picked up a few packs of the 3864 and ended up brewing this recipe.

Here is one I found on the net. . This brewer is on his fourth batch and claims to be getting close. For a smaller batch could you just cut all the ingredients in half?

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------


Batch Size (Gal): 13.00
Wort Size (Gal): 13.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 36.50
Anticipated OG: 1.076
Plato: 18.44
Anticipated SRM: 13.9
Anticipated IBU: 22.3
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------


Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 15.29 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.065 SG 15.82 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------


Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

Amount Name Origin
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

82.2 30.00 lbs. Pilsener: Germany
2.7 1.00 lbs. CaraMunich Malt: Belgium
2.7 1.00 lbs. CaraFoam Dextrine
2.7 1.00 lbs. Aromatic Malt: Belgium
3.4 1.25 lbs. Biscuit Malt: Belgium
3.4 1.25 lbs. Special B Malt: Belgian
2.7 1.00 lbs. Turbinado Sugar: Generic

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

5.00 oz. Hallertau Hersbrucker Pellet 2.67 22.3 60 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

1.00 Oz Bitter Orange Peel Spice 15 Min.(boil)
7.00 Unit(s)Clove, whole Spice 15 Min.(boil)
1.00 Oz Corriander Seed Spice 15 Min.(boil)
6.00 gm Grains of Paradise Spice 15 Min.(boil)
1.00 Unit(s)Whirlfloc tablet Fining 15 Min.(boil)
6.00 gm White Pepper Spice 15 Min.(boil)


Yeast
-----

WYeast 3864 Canadian / Belgian


Mash Schedule
-------------


Mash Type: Single Step

Grain Lbs: 35.50
Water Qts: 36.52 - Before Additional Infusions
Water Gal: 9.13 - Before Additional Infusions

Qts Water Per Lbs Grain: 1.03 - Before Additional Infusions

Saccharification Rest Temp : 152 Time: 120
Mash-out Rest Temp : 170 Time: 10
Sparge Temp : 170 Time: 10


Total Mash Volume Gal: 11.97 - Dough-In Infusion Only

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.
I haven't actually tried it next to Maudite (I know, what am I waiting for) but I can say that this makes a really enjoyable beer! I'll probably make it again next time they bring around 3864.
 

a1amberrenae

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hey guys,

Im 95% sure that the yeast strain that unibroue uses is highly protected. I personally LOVE unibroue but from what ive heard that yeast strain was cultured from the wild and had to be worked with to tame it. Because of this, the original strain is filtered before bottling takes place, and a different, more neutral yeast strain is used for bottle conditioning.

The Wyeast canadian/belgian strain 3864 is pretty good. Ive used it in a AG triple i brewed. From what ive observed, to get the crazy complexity that comes close to unibroue, you have to ferment that strain at high temperatures, like 28 degrees celcius. I didnt ferment it that high so i didnt get the complexity, although one can taste/smell basic similarities to the unibroue strain. Still, i maintain that the 3864 is not the unibroue strain, even though its close. The flavours of the 3864 are not nearly as wild as the unibroue strain.

By the way, do you know the history? I guess the brewmaster is certified from traditional begian schools of brewing, which is where the tamed wild yeast idea comes from. I dont know where they got the strain from though (canada or belgium). The brewery began independant, then was PURCHASED by Sleemans about 5 years ago. Now, more recently, the Sleemans empire has been purchased my SAPPORO, so Sapporo owns Unibroue.... which sucks....

AND, dont bother saving your emply 750ml unibroue bottles unless you have mushroom corks... plastic champagne corks wont work because they are about 1-2 mm to small.... big suprise to me. And mushroom corks are so expensive!! To bad!!


:mug:
What are the "wild" flavors of maudite yeast that you taste?
 
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