New guy with some questions!

[thony14]

Hey,
I have a couple questions before i begin to brew my first batch. I have a 7.5 gallon pot and want to do all grain brewing. Is this a big enough pot? if not, where would you recommend i get a bigger one decently priced? Also i was wondering if i could use my bottling bucket for the mash part of the brew(i think thats what its called. the part where you filter the wort through the grains.) well thats all i can think of now but i will surely post more as they come to mind.
Thanks,
Anthony

 

[brewit2it]

Typically most would start with a extract batch with or without some specialty grains. In fact a kit would be the best way to start since it comes with everything you will need and a detailed instruction sheet. I would strongly recommend sticking with that for your first batch but if you are set on doing an all grain for your first batch then read the section in your brewing book on all grain brewing and that will explain in detail what equipment you will need and what steps you will take. If you dont have a book John Palmer has a free older edition of his "How to Brew" online here:

http://www.howtobrew.com/

 

[Homercidal]

I concur with Brew2it's assesment that you shold get your feet wet, per se, with extract.

However, I used a 7.5 gallon turkey fryer for several batches until I scored a keg to convert. It worked fine, except you have to absolutely vigilant with the flame to keep it from boiling over all the time. I used fermcap (or baby gas drops) to limit the foaming and that helped immensely.

If you think you are ready to do AG though, go for it. I would advise converting a cooler to use as a Mash Tun, or using the kettle. A bucket has Zero insulation and no way to reheat the mash when it starts to cool down (And it will cool down QUICKLY!). With the cooler, your temp will remain very stable for the length of the rest, and with a kettle, you can keep it warm with a small flame while stirring.

If I were you, I'd brew a nice extract batch while building a cooler mash tun. I think trying to use a bucket will simply not work well and just be frustrating. You have to consider the bucket will not fit enough water AND grain for a full batch and there is no good way to strain out the grain. If you really want to do AG now, then possibly try a Brew in a Bag method. You'll probably end up with less beer at the end, but you won't need anything else except a 5 gallon paint strainer bag.

 

[FensterBos]

I agree with Homer and Brew2it; I've had a hard enough time with my first two extract batches, I would hate to see what would have happened if I jumped right into all grain.

 

[thony14]

Thanks for the input!
Extract it is...Any personal favorites you guys recommend?

 

[ongreystreet]

I also agree, I am confined to extract (small condo and a wife), you still learn a lot using extracts for brewing, such as sanitation, siphoning, fermenters, bottling, etc.

I would suggest a Brewer's Best kit, those things are pretty simple and still make great beer. As opposed to some other kits, you can check their website for the recipe and procedure before buying.

 

[mixedbrewer]

I would even recommend a pre-hopped extract kit just to learn the basic basics.

 

[aidan]

I would even recommend a pre-hopped extract kit just to learn the basic basics.

+1

I notice a lot of people on this forum jump straight in the deep end and start off with extract + steeped grains or even all grain. I guess that's fine if you have a brewing friend to help you get started or are confident and have done your research.

However I see some advantages with starting off with a prehopped kit:
- It is by far the easiest way to make beer
- It's very fast - no boiling required
- No decisions to be made about hops, yeasts, etc.
- The beer can be very good (don't just take my word for it)
- It's good to know what type of beer you can make with easiest
approach possible
- You will have a totally stress free start to your brewing
- You just practice the real basics first - sanitation, fermentation, bottling
- Less chance of f***ing up - you are almost guaranteed success

I did 2 pre-hopped kits and then an extract batch. I found there was a lot of extra effort, time and planning involved in doing the extract batch. And even though I had written up my process in advance, I still managed to make mistakes and forget some important things.
But that's just my opinion, each to their own.

 

[ongreystreet]

I disagree with that, I don't think steeping grains is too much for a beginner. But you're going to want to understand what you're doing before you do it.

Again, a simple kit such as BB will make it easier, and you can check the recipes online and ask questions before you even get the kit (if you can stand to wait).

 

[dougdecinces]

I did an extract/partial for my first brew, and I don't think it's hard in the least. Of course, there are some things you have to be good at: specifically being able to monitor your temperature vigilantly and the ability to follow a recipe (huge).

 

[aidan]

I did an extract/partial for my first brew, and I don't think it's hard in the least. Of course, there are some things you have to be good at: specifically being able to monitor your temperature vigilantly and the ability to follow a recipe (huge).

I know it's not hard. All I'm saying is pre-hopped kit is even easier still and it's good to know what you can produce with the simplest possible method of making beer.

 

[mixedbrewer]

For someone who hasn't brewed anything before... something as common as monitoring and maintaining temperatures could be an overwhelming task. I see so many posts about "my temp what up to 75 degrees, what do I do now?". Using a prehopped kit will help you learn how to -not ruin your beer-. Some people might brag about how awesome they are by stepping half way up the mountain in one step, but that only means they have to backwards learn the basics later down the road.

 

[MisterGreen]

Hey,
I have a couple questions before i begin to brew my first batch. I have a 7.5 gallon pot and want to do all grain brewing. Is this a big enough pot? if not, where would you recommend i get a bigger one decently priced? Also i was wondering if i could use my bottling bucket for the mash part of the brew(i think thats what its called. the part where you filter the wort through the grains.) well thats all i can think of now but i will surely post more as they come to mind.
Thanks,
Anthony

Just curious; Since you've never brewed before, what made you decide to jump right to all-grain brewing?

 

[bhop2112]

Obviously, I can't speak for thony14, but I'm also a n00b and I had plans to start out with AG. I had read "How to Brew" cover to cover and read this forum extensively, so I thought I was ready and up to the challenge. Plus, it just sounds damn fun.

Anyway, a few weeks ago, I walked in to my LHBS and said, "OK, I'm ready to get started with my first batch... and I want to do AG!". The guy looked at me weird and said, "um, let's get you setup with a PM kit first".

After brewing up that PM kit this past weekend, I'm really glad I went that route instead. There is really something to be said for going through the process *at least* once with an extract or PM kit just to get your feet wet. Plus, that was damn fun as well

I'm working on building my MLT now and plan to do an AG for my second batch, but at least I know a few of the hurdles I'm going to run into.

 

[Homercidal]

Thanks for the input!
Extract it is...Any personal favorites you guys recommend?

I have brewed a kit once or twice a long time ago. Any of the big names are good, just choose a style you like.

OR, visit some of the online LHBS's and browse their selection of recipes. The ingredients are likely to be fresher and I think most of them are proven recipes.

I've spent a few long hours checking out Northern Brewer's catalogue.

Here's a few pointers for extract brewing:

Do full volume boils if you're kettle is large enough.
If you do a full boil, look to use an immersion chiller. Since you want to do AG you will want one anyway and they are a snap to build.
Maybe do a Late Extract Addition if you are brewing a lighter color beer.
Use Distilled water, since the extracting process retains the minerals and using regular water likely adds extra stuff.
Pitch a packet of rehydrated yeast if using dry, or make up a large starter ahead of time if using liquid.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

If you are the type who can do a demiglace from reading instructions, all grain is very much for you. Even if you are comfortable watching videos to learn advanced cooking techniques, all grain can be an enjoyable experience. As long as you are able to keep the session documented _when_ it veers from recipe, you can learn a lot as to why those slight changes in recipe can result in significant changes in flavor profile. Veering from recipe is normal until you have reasonable experience brewing with your gear. Veering akso tends to result in delicious surprises. Only sanitation is an anak _no veer_ workflow. Infections are simple to avoid if you are properly prepared.

My first batch was extract, and I loathed the simplicity as well as the 'dumbing down' of the whole science. Second batch was all grain, and I haven't looked back. That was ~17 years ago. Things are definitely more simple now!

 

[aidan]

Good luck and welcome to the brewing obsession whichever end you decide to go in - the shallow end or the deep end!

As well as this forum, I read other home brewing forums based in different countries - UK, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand and a pattern that I have noticed is that in the US people are more inclined to jump in deeper rather than test the waters by doing the really simple pre-hopped kits. Whereas in other countries the most common starting point is a kit beer such as Coopers, Muntons, etc. I wonder is it due to a 'loathing of simplicity' (as CoolHandLuke states) or do the pre-hopped kits have a really bad image in USA? Maybe reading John Palmer's 'How To Brew' book might be a factor as the kits are downplayed but his latest take on kit beers changes all that.

 

[Skyforger]

aidan: it may have to do with how many Americans are sick of everything being pre-made, ready-to-eat, and idiot-proof....using prehopped extract feels like the brewing equivalent of microwave dinners - convenient, but we have a hard time believing the results can be much good. And anyways, it doesn't feel like you're really brewing.

Just look at the Slow Food movement. And the artisan bread movement, and so on. Heck, look at the craft brewing movement. Americans are kind of distancing themselves from the industrial, pre-prepared, one-size-fits-all model of food and drink that became dominant during the latter half of the 20th century. They want to make things that feel real, that have craft and process and intimacy to them. And I think that's a good thing. Fast food has done us few favors.

 

[mixedbrewer]

Learning to change the oil is different than rebuilding an engine. Just because something is easy doesn't mean its pointless. Pre-hopped kits teach you the second half of brewing. The next step is making the wort instead of buying it. And, there are unlimited ways to do that. I have a feeling that some people try to brew at a level that is too advanced for them, they end up with bad beer, and ditch brewing all together. You guys might as well make all your own furniture instead of buying it... because that is just pre-made crap.

 

[Golddiggie]

Learning to change the oil is different than rebuilding an engine. Just because something is easy doesn't mean its pointless. Pre-hopped kits teach you the second half of brewing. The next step is making the wort instead of buying it. And, there are unlimited ways to do that. I have a feeling that some people try to brew at a level that is too advanced for them, they end up with bad beer, and ditch brewing all together. You guys might as well make all your own furniture instead of buying it... because that is just pre-made crap.

I actually see it more of either making your own sauce, or buying it in a jar... While some really like the stuff in the jars, there's nothing like making your own. If I had a garden, or rather, WHEN I have a garden, I'll also work to use my own tomatoes in the sauce.

As for furniture and such you mentioned... IF I had the tools to do it right, I'd go for it. As for engines, it all depends on what it is in... Lawnmower, sure I'll give it a twirl (or small 2 stroke engines)... I've rebuilt air compressors pumps before.

For brewing, I did a few extract batches (NOT prehopped) adding hops when they were called for. Going with the prehopped brewing, to me, is just being lazy. Adding hops doesn't take all that much effort, nor is it difficult (for people with more than a few living brain cells left)...

Learning how to add different elements is important, but not difficult. Get a couple of extract (don't go lazy, add hops to the mix) brews under your belt, then a PM before going all grain.

DO keep really good notes on what you did for the brew, so that you can refer back to them when either things go where you don't expect, or you're looking for input on the brew. Just having someone taste it usually isn't enough. You might have aimed for one thing, but it ended up being something else. Once you start trying to formulate your own recipe's, get some brewing software to help out. It takes a LOT of the math off of you.

For all grain brewing, I'm enjoying the BIAB method (works well for PM batches too). Less hardware is needed (a really good thing in a small apartment) but you still get the benefits of going all grain.

Bottom line, while using some different methods can help you out, such as BIAB instead of making/using full on mash tuns, don't go too far into the 'idiot proof' methods. Unless you actually NEED those methods... People that I know, that are also brewing all grain (for the most part, almost everyone does an occasional extract batch) tend to figure it will be an all-day affair. Or, at the very least, the entire afternoon, into the evening (depends on the start time and what you're brewing)...

If you can, find some people in your area to brew a couple of batches with, so that you can benefit from their experience. See what works for them, and then adapt it to your own style/personality...

 

[aidan]

Going with the prehopped brewing, to me, is just being lazy.

What's wrong with lazy?

 

[Golddiggie]

What's wrong with lazy?

*sigh* Besides everything??

Anything worth doing, is worth doing right...

If you're going to be that lazy, why not just go to the corner store and pick up a six pack o swill?

I think that far too many people are into instant gratification for everything. The way I see it, if you're going to take the time to actually brew something decent, then take the few extra seconds/moments to do a better job of it (with extract brewing)... Once you get some of those done, and you want to, go partial mash, then all grain. With extracts, you trade off money for ease (since extract kits cost more)... When you go all grain, you pay less for the ingredients, and just use a bit more of your own time. But, the brew you get from AG is better than what you'll end up with from extract kits. So the time you spend brewing [more than] pays for itself in drinking pleasure.

Personally, I'd rather tweak even the extract recipe to be more in line with what I like than what someone else considers to be good. An important element, like what hops are used, is not something I'll leave up to someone else.

In the end, you'll brew what you want, how you want, and either like what you make, or not. Until I started home brewing I didn't really care for most brews/beers out there. I would drink very little (a 6 pack would last me weeks)... I just need to get my pipeline to a good point, so that I don't run out... I have only a few left from what's finished right now. I have more in process, but those batches are at least a few weeks away from being ready to drink.

 

[Skyforger]

To be clear: I don't necessarily look down on anyone for using things like prehopped extract. People will brew according to what their needs and resources are. I'm just trying to elucidate the mindset that drives some people away from things that are too pat or easy.

 

[JohnTheBrewist]

I think too many people try to over-complicate the beer making process. Its not rocket science, and its not as difficult as making furniture or working on a car. If you can follow a recipe, you can make beer. If you're not good at following instructions or recipes, then maybe this isn't a good hobby for you.

When I started brewing 21 years ago, I didn't have the resources we have today. Hell, I didn't even have a computer, let alone video instruction on the internet. I read Charlie Papazian's book, made a couple extract batches, then went to all grain. I see no reason one couldn't start with AG brews. It's typically just a matter of equipment, and you don't want to make an investment in equipment until you're confident you'd continue with the hobby. That's why you start with extract, so you get a taste of it.

I just learned about these cool 1 gallon all grain kits. At that small a scale, brewing AG is easy. No special equipment or skills needed. Their instructions do take the science out of the process though... there are no PH readings or hydrometer readings, etc. But I'm confident the beer would come out great.

 

[aidan]

If you're going to be that lazy, why not just go to the corner store and pick up a six pack o swill?

Everything has it's place and use - even the beer that you call swill and comes in 6 packs.

I think that far too many people are into instant gratification for everything. The way I see it, if you're going to take the time to actually brew something decent, then take the few extra seconds/moments to do a better job of it (with extract brewing)...

Kit brewing is not exactly instant gratification, believe me it's a LOOOOONG wait (the hardest part of brewing by the way)

With extracts, you trade off money for ease (since extract kits cost more)... When you go all grain, you pay less for the ingredients, and just use a bit more of your own time.

Another advantage of the kits, a very cheap way to brew - my extract batch is costing me about 3 times the cost of my kit batches after purchasing lme, speciality grains, yeast & hops.

Personally, I'd rather tweak even the extract recipe to be more in line with what I like than what someone else considers to be good. An important element, like what hops are used, is not something I'll leave up to someone else.

Even the kits can be tweaked, combined (toucan) etc. Obviously not as much scope but you can add additional hops, speciality grains, adjuncts etc. and do stuff to adjust the flavour.

In the end, you'll brew what you want, how you want, and either like what you make, or not. Until I started home brewing I didn't really care for most brews/beers out there. I would drink very little (a 6 pack would last me weeks)...

Exactly, and there is not a thing wrong with brewing per-hopped kits. IMHO a great and stress free way to get started. I'm glad that I started that way and I'm delighted with the resulting beer. Most likely the urge to take more control over the process will beckon and it will lead down the slippery slope...

 

[thony14]

Just curious; Since you've never brewed before, what made you decide to jump right to all-grain brewing?

My Friend Does AG and I have brewed with him a few times so i thought maybe I could pick up from what i had learned while brewing with him.

 

[maltbarleyhops]

crawl, walk , run. its a methodology that has worked for eons...

 

[superjunior]

Thanks for the input!
Extract it is...Any personal favorites you guys recommend?

I would try a basic kit with specialty grains - not a CAN kit. most of the kits from BB, AHS and NB will more than likely have a style to your liking, and all come with really easy to understand instructions

 

[Homercidal]

My Friend Does AG and I have brewed with him a few times so i thought maybe I could pick up from what i had learned while brewing with him.

If you have seen and/or worked with AG then you know that it's not that difficult. This makes all of the difference. As I said earlier, there is nothing very hard about AG, and if you think you understand it, then go for it.

My suggestion to start with extract is due entirely on the fact that you said you didn't have certain pieces of equipment. My answer is why not brew up an extract until you get your stuff together.

I fully support a walk before running mentality. However, AG is not terribly hard to understand and there is no reason someone can't start off with it if they wish to. The second best part of this hobby is the joy you get from the process. If it makes you happy to do it a certain way, then do it that way. Most people don't jump into AG from the start because there is a learning curve that can throw people off. That's why you hear about starting with extract. It's a good idea, but certainly not necessary. I've read a few stories where people started out with AG and did well. Good luck!

 

[Skyforger]

I started AG. It was really fun, though the first few batches were hardly perfect. It does take a bit of dedication to educating yourself about he process, and a bit of understanding of what's going on. I had a degree in microbiology, and lots of experience with organic chemistry. That helps, too - you learn what to pay attention to. If you think you can handle all-grain, go for it. Just don't expect it to be easy. Fun, most of the time. But not easy.

 

[brewit2it]

I have a feeling that some people try to brew at a level that is too advanced for them, they end up with bad beer, and ditch brewing all together.

I think you got this mostly right but I would say it is more like:

people try to brew at a level that is too advanced for them, they end up with bad beer, they drink it and they tell everyone here and elsewhere how great it tastes.

Thats the beauty of homebrewing and egos, the desire to believe what one made is great is so strong it keeps most folks going through enough marginal batches to start to refine their technique to eventually make decent beer.

 

[mixedbrewer]

As far as people who talk about home brewing on-line I bet you are right on. And I wish making beer was as simple as following directions like putting together a TV stand, or making a package of ramen noodles. But the truth is that you are manipulating a living organism, and trying to create an environment for it to create something suitable for your taste plus other various requirements. Making sub-par beer is very easy, and like mentioned above... saying it was good doesn't actually make it good. You can use the best grains, awesome conical fermentation chamber, and liquid yeast, but oops! I mashed in too high, or too low, or pitched too hot, or fermented too high, or didn't sanitize something all the way, or oxidized my wort, or under fermented... and now all of my awesome grain, my steel conical fermenter, liquid yeast, and awesome set up didn't matter. I should have learned to brew something easy before I spent all this money and wasted time messing with all of this fancy stuff.