New Glarus Moon Man Clone Help

[billysparrows]

Brewerb,

I'm in. I'm going to begin the hop search now. I currently just do 3 gal biab batches do to a temporary living arrangement, but it can obviously be scaled. I'll post what I am thinking of trying and welcome any constructive advice. I may need a day or two to get things together bc I'm working nights right now, but I have 12 (rapidly dwindling) MM's in my fridge now to help motivate me. Where are you with your clone attempt?

 

[billysparrows]

Also, target IBU's?

No Amarillo out there....may sub centennial

 

[borden]

I finally picked up some Moon Man yesterday and did a comparison with my pale ale, which was based on my memories of Moon Man.

Results? It's really not too far off! The colors are almost identical, so that's pretty neat. My pale's use of Columbus and Cascade means it's definitely more citrusy than Moon Man, but I think the bitterness isn't too far off -- in the neighborhood of 30 IBUs for my 1.040 OG.

It's not Moon Man, but I'm really pleased with the similarities. Definitely similar beers.

 

[brewerb]

billysparrows,

I have been drinking my first attempt for a few weeks. It is really good,& it seems close, but I'm not sure if it is a clone. I do not live close to Wi to get MM, but My cousin is bringing some over on Saturday. I will share results after we compare. I don't have the recipe in front of me, but I think it was about 40 IBU. I think I dry hopped with Amarillo, Citra, Simcoe, Chinook & Rakau (NZ) bc I remember a hint of passionfruit & peach behind a grapefruit backbone. I used MO & Golden Promise (bc I ran out of MO). If it is close, I will post the full recipe.

 

[billysparrows]

Nice, I'm looking forward to the results. I've done a few beers in that same vein that were pretty close, but def not clones. I do have an actual clone attempt with pacific gem, citra, cascade, centennial, and Amarillo that I just bottled. I will post when I crack one.

It would be nice to get a credible source naming their hops, but oh we'll I guess we keep working. In three attempts at similar beers, I have enjoyed one as much as moon man, and two were good, but not as good as MM.

 

[JRdaSconnie]

FYI, I just sent a message to New Glarus on their general comment form looking for some GUIDANCE (not a recipe) on a beer in the style of their Thumbprint Olde English Porter (sour porter). I got a lengthy response that "while open discussion is a great thing" they refuse to share any shred of info on their beers. So, keep working your recipes because we won't squeeze any info out of them!

 

[pvtschultz]

Yeah, I know people that have dealt with the Carey's on a professional/business basis and weren't impressed with their demeaner/friendliness. They make some pretty good beers, but their unwillingness to help out amateurs like us is discouraging. Oh well, we have Spotted Cow cloned; it's only a matter of time for the rest.

 

[DrinkNoH2O]

Visiting Indiana and a friend handed me a MM tonight - amazing beer. I definitely detect cascade and chinook. Would love to brew this one. Pretty much an american bitter, lower OG than pale ale, american hops (mostly), and clean ale yeast. Not a ton of body, it has a dry finish.

Looking forward to cloning something like this. Much better than a similar beer Stone brewed (San Diego session or something like that).

 

[urbanmyth]

I picked up a pound of New Zealand Motueka last night for the hell of it, and found that this hop has almost the exact nose of Moon Man. I think this may be the missing lynchpin we have been looking for. I am working with what I think will be a tasty session pale ale malt bill and a mix of Motueka, Pacific Gem, Pacific Jade and Green Bullet. Hopping it to about 35 IBUs with the Green Bullet and then hop bursting with the others. At the very least, I expect to have a tasty house pale ale to keep in rotation.

 

[DrinkNoH2O]

Sounds great, keep us posted

 

[urbanmyth]

http://hopville.com/recipe/1522536/...s/pain-in-the-ass-pale-ale-2012-07-11-version

This is the recipe I have come up with so far. I am using half and half Munich and MO because those are the base malts I have at the moment. I opted for no 60 min hop addition to cut down on bittering and focus more on the hop flavors and aromas. Let me know what you fine folks think. I am telling you, Moteuka is the game changer in this one. The raw hops smell EXACTLY like a fresh bottle of Moon Man.

 

[urbanmyth]

http://hopville.com/recipe/1522536/...s/pain-in-the-ass-pale-ale-2012-07-11-version

This is the recipe I have come up with so far. I am using half and half Munich and MO because those are the base malts I have at the moment. I opted for no 60 min hop addition to cut down on bittering and focus more on the hop flavors and aromas. Let me know what you fine folks think. I am telling you, Moteuka is the game changer in this one. The raw hops smell EXACTLY like a fresh bottle of Moon Man.

 

[urbanmyth]

Brewing on Monday. Pictures to follow, if my camera is cooperating.

 

[tre9er]

Brewing on Monday. Pictures to follow, if my camera is cooperating.

any update to this? I recently had my first (and second, third, etc.) bottle of Moon Man PA on vacation in Wisconsin/Up North. Gotta say I immediately felt like it was one of the best PA's I've had. I think the intense dry-hopping and dry, sessionable finish were the key points. Of course I thought there was great hop flavor as well, similar to my Nugget IIPA.

I considered making my Nugget Empire as a PA and seeing how I liked that. Is the general rule in scaling an IPA to a PA just dropping the IBU's, or do most guys also drop the flavor/aroma/dry-hop additions some as well?

 

[lalnx]

I've been messing with my own Moon Man inspired APA. In 5 gallons, I have been first wort hopping/boiling with equal 5 gram quantity of Amarillo, Citra, Pacific Gem, and Summit. (Rager IBU around 35) Then 10 days dry hop with 14 grams each of same hops. I had planed on using Nelson Sauvin as a 5th hop, but wasn't availabe at the time I did my last order.

As is, this comes very close, actually brewing again this evening. 15 days till the fair, wanted to bring this one, but we drank the last batch up before I could pull a couple bottles off. Going to try and push it by pitching on to a slurry, dry-hopping after 3 days, dry hop for 8 days, hit it with some super-kleer, chill and force carb. Session APA are great young anyhow!

 

[kenlenard]

The NG website does say that they use 4 Pacific NW hops and 1 NZ hop... I believe. I'm looking for some information because I do like this beer and live in IL so I cannot get it without a GOOD drive. Cheers Beerheads.

 

[urbanmyth]

any update to this? I recently had my first (and second, third, etc.) bottle of Moon Man PA on vacation in Wisconsin/Up North. Gotta say I immediately felt like it was one of the best PA's I've had. I think the intense dry-hopping and dry, sessionable finish were the key points. Of course I thought there was great hop flavor as well, similar to my Nugget IIPA.

I considered making my Nugget Empire as a PA and seeing how I liked that. Is the general rule in scaling an IPA to a PA just dropping the IBU's, or do most guys also drop the flavor/aroma/dry-hop additions some as well?

I dry hopped the brew last night. I used an ounce of Muteuka and Pacific Gem, half an ounce of Amarillo and Cascade and a forth ounce of Willamette. The mixture smelled great in the cup before I added them, and slightly of Moon Man. It kind of morphed into a showcase of New Zealand hops instead of a Moon Man clone, but I do believe in my heart of hearts that Mutueka is the variety that makes Moon Man unique. My camera was not cooperating on brew day, but I shall post tasting notes in about three weeks after bottle conditioning has finished.

 

[tre9er]

I dry hopped the brew last night. I used an ounce of Muteuka and Pacific Gem, half an ounce of Amarillo and Cascade and a forth ounce of Willamette. The mixture smelled great in the cup before I added them, and slightly of Moon Man. It kind of morphed into a showcase of New Zealand hops instead of a Moon Man clone, but I do believe in my heart of hearts that Mutueka is the variety that makes Moon Man unique. My camera was not cooperating on brew day, but I shall post tasting notes in about three weeks after bottle conditioning has finished.

Well I've purchased 3oz each of Motueka and Pac Gem. My neighbor and fellow (long-time) brewer said he'd bet Amarillo is in there due to the citrus notes. Good call on that. He said he doesn't use Cascade with other hops very often, though.

My plan is to use the NZ hops along with something citrusy, maybe Amarillo or Cascade, for flavor/aroma...and bitter with something high-alpha that I like, probably Nugget. I plan on doing just a 30 minute boil.

My grain should be here this week, so I'll brew it this weekend likely.

 

[evandena]

Sub'd. I love this stuff, good hop flavor with a clean finish.

 

[urbanmyth]

Well I've purchased 3oz each of Motueka and Pac Gem. My neighbor and fellow (long-time) brewer said he'd bet Amarillo is in there due to the citrus notes. Good call on that. He said he doesn't use Cascade with other hops very often, though.

My plan is to use the NZ hops along with something citrusy, maybe Amarillo or Cascade, for flavor/aroma...and bitter with something high-alpha that I like, probably Nugget. I plan on doing just a 30 minute boil.

My grain should be here this week, so I'll brew it this weekend likely.

Which grain bill are you using?

 

[tre9er]

Which grain bill are you using?

American 2-row 14
American Crystal 40 2

Mash at 153 as to not dry it out too much but also not a malt-forward beer. I'm probably using a chico repitch, which I know will chew down quite a lot, so I want SOME mouthfeel.

I find I still get good malt sweetness mashing at 153-154, even with a very simple grain bill. My favorite house IIPA is made with a similar grain bill.

 

[mjohnson]

sub'd. Love the stuff.

I agree tre9er - my simple grain bills seem to come out better.

 

[urbanmyth]

So, I kegged this about a week ago and finally got my keezer up and running. I still have a few kinks to work out concerning finings and getting the temp controller to work and force carbonating and so on, but I can taste the beer pretty well through the dry hop flakes.

It is a good beer. I ended up mashing a little low, and my efficiency was ****ty because of a change in process. DME was added to compensate, but it didn't quite give me what I wanted to end up with. The result is still a good beer malt wise, but it is lacking a little.

Now the hops. I won't be so bold as to say it is a Moon Man clone. I will say that it has some Moon Man qualities. The slight tropical fruit characteristic that the alleged New Zealand hops is present, as is some grapefruit qualities. When I brew this again, I will back off on the bittering additions, as it is just a stitch too bitter up front. I think I will keep dry hop schedule the same - an ounce each of Moutueka, Amarillo, Pacific Gem, and Cascade along with a half ounce of Willamette.

All in all, I really enjoy my version of this style. Not EXACTLY correct, not an exact clone, but more of a tribute beer, if that makes some sense. I will brew it again, and I think it may come to be my house pale ale.

That said, does anybody have any good ways to keep loose dry hops out of my glass? I suppose I should use gelatin or something similar.

 

[tre9er]

I wanted to add my tasting notes from my batch of a similar beer. Its late hopped starting at 30m, only did a 30m boil in fact. No DMS.
Grain bill is just pale ale malt and crystal 40 to color/taste.

I agree the prescribed IBUs comes across a touch too bitter to me. There's a lingering bite I'm not super fond of, though this is one of my better beers of the style. I bittered with Nugget, a fav of mine and I had a lot on hand...at 30m then did flavor/aroma with equal parts motueka and pac gem.

I also dry hopped with both of these NZ hops. I'll post full recipe tomorrow. I should note I overnight mashed at 153 and the beer attenuated all the way down to 1.001, finishing at nearly 6%...overshot that a bit. Perhaps a less dry beer would have balanced out a little better with the IBUs.

 

[Hanso]

My guess would be that there are no 60 minute hops for this beer.

 

[tre9er]

My guess would be that there are no 60 minute hops for this beer.

Right. I bittered at 30, nothing before. Still think the IBU's are a little high, that or my dry finish is adding a bite to the end.

 

[tre9er]

Here's my recipe, again, a little high on the IBU's I think:

9g batch
OG 1.049
IBU 34.8
ABV ~6.4% (overshot)

14lbs. 2-row
2lbs. Crystal 40

Mashed overnight at 153, finished at 143. Beer attenuated to 1.001, VERY dry. In future would do 155-156 (for my overnight setup) to denature some betas and get slightly more mouthfeel. 153 should work fine for 60m mash though.

Hops Varieties Ounces Time (mins.) of Addition
Nugget 1.00 30
Pacific Gem 0.50 15
Motueka 0.50 15
Pacific Gem 1.00 5
Motueka 1.00 5
Motueka 1.50 Dry
Pacific Gem 1.50 Dry

US-05 repitch, slurry made into starter, about 18 hours since innoculation.

Fermented at 64 for about a week, dry hopped 3-4 days, cold crashed 3-4 days, kegged, burst carbed at 30PSI, drinking in 24 hours, fully carbed in 48-72 hours.

Been thinking of removing the 25m addition and just adding a scosche more to the 15. I think IBU's in the 20's would be much better here. This is one of my best beers despite this, though.

 

[Hanso]

I'm sure the overnight mash is what dried the beer out. I'm thinking more hops in the sub 15 minute level, but not sure. Also not familiar with the hops you used here but I'm thinking the real beer has at least a couple different citrusy hops, like cascade Amarillo and citra.

 

[tre9er]

I'm sure the overnight mash is what dried the beer out. I'm thinking more hops in the sub 15 minute level, but not sure. Also not familiar with the hops you used here but I'm thinking the real beer has at least a couple different citrusy hops, like cascade Amarillo and citra.

Yeah, not trying to get a huge citrus flavor but it does have plenty of fruit. More tropical fruit, some grass, it's very good. I know amarillo is in MM but I didn't have it. This is an "inspired by" beer, not a clone.

Yeah, the overnight mash dried it out. This was my first one. It doesn't taste hot/alcoholic at all though. It has good sweetness too from the pale malt and crystal. As I mentioned though, next time I'll probably mash at 155 for overnight.

 

[urbanmyth]

Mine will be mashed even higher next time. Somewhere near 157 or 158. 153 even was too low, with as simple and light a grain bill I used. Looking forward to brewing this again with a different hop bill, too. Adding in Amarillo and Citra in the late hops. Should get that nice, grapefruity tropical fruit thing Moon Man has nicely.