New Glarus Moon Man Clone Help

[P_Bio]

I brewed this on 7/12/15, left in primary a week week, then dry hopped for 1 week, cold crashed, gelatin fined, and forced carb. Brew day to glass was just over 3 weeks so it's still pretty green.

I hit most of my numbers, I was a little low on OG (1049) and finished at 1012, so ~4.8% ABV which seems appropriate.

It's been over a year since I've had moon man, if anyone wants to send me some to compare I'd be happy to do a beer swap, but I think it turned out great. The aroma is fantastic. The citra and simcoe are about all I smell. body is good and it is pretty easy drinking. It is a tad more bitter than I remember so I might dial back the hops a little bit.

Overall I think this turned out great and I can't wait to brew it again. It will definitely work into my regular rotation. Also I think it will just get better with time. So thanks to Sriniker7 for the recipe! Great to get a little taste of Wisco down in Florida.

 

[Sriniker7]

Thanks for the props P_bio but the credit should go to all on this thread who have been working it out. I combined everything that everyone tried here and just tried to improve upon what was already figured out.
Anyway I am using caramunich(48L) now instead of 60 crystal, and Munich(10L) in place of the 20 crystal. which in my opinion gets closer to the original moon man malt profile. Good luck finding the hops for this one this time of year. I just picked up a lb of each one of the hops and just in time. Mosaic and muteka are not available until november now. So if you find moteuka or mosiac grab them while you can....

 

[Tbattisti]

I brewed this on 7/12/15, left in primary a week week, then dry hopped for 1 week, cold crashed, gelatin fined, and forced carb. Brew day to glass was just over 3 weeks so it's still pretty green.

I hit most of my numbers, I was a little low on OG (1049) and finished at 1012, so ~4.8% ABV which seems appropriate.

It's been over a year since I've had moon man, if anyone wants to send me some to compare I'd be happy to do a beer swap, but I think it turned out great. The aroma is fantastic. The citra and simcoe are about all I smell. body is good and it is pretty easy drinking. It is a tad more bitter than I remember so I might dial back the hops a little bit.

Overall I think this turned out great and I can't wait to brew it again. It will definitely work into my regular rotation. Also I think it will just get better with time. So thanks to Sriniker7 for the recipe! Great to get a little taste of Wisco down in Florida.

I have 12 left, willing to swap. PM me.

 

[BeardedBrews]

Both were excellent beers but the second with the Amarillo was better.

What temp are you mashing at?

 

[Sriniker7]

I like it dry so the first 2 times I mashed lower around 150. I thought it was missing some sweetness so this time I mashed a little higher at 154. I am drinking this right now actually so its kinda green yet, but I never seem to see this age much , but hopefully I can keep to myself and let it condition this time(damn family get together). It is a better balance I think (still green). So will continue to mash in the mid 150s. One thing to note though is that since this is all late hopping it is a beer best drank young. I have had the OG from NG a couple of times in the last few weeks and it taste skunky to me now compared to mine. This is probably because of handling from where I get it from ie not keeping it cold (hardware store that sells it is the closest to me in WI). So in all fairness not a good blind taste test. Anyway going to NG for Octoberfest and plan on getting a fresh case from there for comparison. Will update when I get the chance.

 

[BeardedBrews]

I just placed my order based on the latest recipe notes in this thread. Yakima Valley Hops had the 2014 harvest in stock for all of the hops so I went with them.

I will grab the WLP001 Locally



Amarillo™ (2oz) 1 $3.99
Citra® Hops (2oz) 1 $4.99
Chinook (2oz) 1 $2.99
Simcoe® (2oz) 1 $3.99
NZ Motueka (2oz) 1 $3.99

2-Row Malt (Briess) - 1lb
[Milled:Yes] 7 $6.93

Maris Otter (Baird) - 1lb
3 $5.25

White Wheat Malt (Briess) - 1lb
[Milled:Yes] 1 $1.79

Weyermann® CARAMUNICH® Type 2 1 lb
[Milled:Yes] 1 $2.25

Munich Malt (Wyerman) - 1lb
[Milled:Yes] 1 $1.65

Subtotal: $37.82


Hope to have an update in a few weeks for the thread.

Thanks for all of your trial-and-error guys!

-Ben

 

[Sriniker7]

Ok thanks "bearded" good to know they're still available if you know where to look. I have been trying to get the 1 #ers to save a little $ since this is going to be my house brew on tap now. But anyway, I forgot to mention the water profile that I am using, I have horribly hard water where I live (720ppm) so I use R/O water and just add a 1 tsp of calcium chloride and 1 tsp of Gypsum FYI

 

[BeardedBrews]

Bringing this thread back to life since my batch just finished carbonation.

Aroma: Nice hop forward aroma, but not overpowering. Mostly citrus and fruit, minimal yeast character but some malt character.

Appearance: Bright clear gold, can read through the glass. Creamy off white head with some larger bubbles, falls quickly with good lace.

Flavor: Low forward hop bitterness but good hop flavor. Citrus again in the flavor, along with some floral hop character to my mouth. Fairly sweet, with some lingering sweetness towards the back of the tongue. Carbonation is moderate to high so some bite there which might exaggerate the hop bitterness in the aftertaste.

Mouthfeel: Good body to balance the moderate carbonation, very smooth drinking beer.

Overall I am very happy with the way this beer turned out. I am not sure that I hit a Moon Man, there are some flavors especially around the aftertaste that I think are common to my process and are likely imperfections, but this is obviously a solid recipe. In general I think I was a little too sweet compared to my last bottle of Moon Man, and I don't remember as much lingering after-taste in the commercial example. I love this base beer, and if I change anything when I brew it again it will be to personal taste not to get closer to Moon Man.

Be Careful - This is a VERY Drinkable beer. I pulled one pint and wasn't sure how I felt about it so I had to pull a second. After the second I was sure there was something in the aftertaste I couldn't quite identify. By the end of the third I was thinking I had it figured out, and when I finished the fourth pint I knew what it was -> Too Drinkable :cross:


Process Notes:
I forgot to do a Mash-Out step... Doh! My efficiency was 5-10% lower than I have gotten with BIAB in the past, and I give some of that to the missed mash-out. The rest may have come from a new milled grain source (YVH).

I subbed a limited release Wyeast sample (Mount Hood). It left more yeast character than I remember in the commercial and I think I might like that.

I fined the batch with gelatin during the cold crash, I like the results of that. I also grabbed a pint jar of the yeast slurry to re-pitch in my next batch. Fermented at 66 all the way through, dry hopped for 7 days, cold crashed to 34.

The recipe and my brew log are attached if anyone cares.

View attachment Mountain Man - Beer Recipe - Brewer's Friend.pdf

 

[Wooden]

Guys, I'm looking to try a MM clone here as well.

Have read all 19 pages of this thread as well as researched this topic on some other sites.

Right now, I'm focusing on the hop blend. I am trying to make something fit with what guys have posted here and what I have read:

-4 of the hops from PNW, 1 hop from NZ.
-3 of 5 not commonly used in American Ales.

also, this thing about Riwaka and Citra being a substitute for Riwaka (also read somewhere that Riwaka was unavailable for a time, if so, could there be one more dedicated NZ hop besides Riwaka? (For now I will assume not):

Here is what I am coming up with:

1 NZ hop:
-Riwaka (perhaps Citra is substituted?)

2 American Ale Hops grown in WA:
-Simcoe
-Amarillo

2 more Hops grown in WA, but NOT commonly used in American Ales:
-Cluster?
-US Fuggle?

Regarding the above, I have read here and perhaps other places that the beer is "part British, part American Ale" so that is what I used as guidance for the selection of the 2 non-"American Ale" hops, ones more closely associated with British bitters, etc.

So, I'm coming up with equal weights of:

Riwaka (4.5-6.5% AA) (or an equal AA adjusted amt of Citra as a substitute)
Simcoe (12-14% AA)
Amarillo (8-9% AA)
US Fuggle (4.5-5.5%AA)
Cluster (5.5-8.5% AA)

Other candidates for the remaining 2 "non-American Ale, US grown" hops were: were:

-Mt. Hood (4-8%) - emphasizes aroma fades quickly, drink fresh, (similar to Moon Man!)
-Northern Brewer (7-10%)
-Willamette

Thoughts on how this would compare to the real thing? I am relatively new to recipe design but have a half-dozen or so batches under my belt, and also can get Moon Man just across the bridge in WI.

Cheers,

Wooden

 

[Hanso]

With the number of varieties were talking about there are way too many options to brute force our way through so i like the educated guessing and tweaking method. Equal weights is probably a good starting point to keep it simple.

Mt Hood or Willamette/US Fuggles seem like good ideas for the outlier choice.

I doubt northern brewer, just imho.

Probably citra is fine as substitute for NZ hop of choice.

Simcoe AND amarillo might put it too much in the citrus range although MM is really strong on grapefruit. I'd personally just go with one of them, probably Amarillo.

 

[Wooden]

Been doing research on this and read all 19 pages more than once now....


It seems to be that we have made some kickarse pale ales in the spirit of Moon Man but are missing a few things when comparing to the original:

1) Tropical fruits flavor: a lot of people are getting great citrus flavors, but not so much on the tropical fruit.

2) The "tartness": a lot of people reported a certain tartness with the Original Moon Man that they couldn't pin down in their clones.

I have 3 ideas for areas to explore:

1) hops
2) yeast
3) wheat? (I would assume a small amount since the beer is pretty clear)

1) Hops possibilities:..

-El Dorado? Galaxy?

They are not *that* common but I think have been around long enough to be in this beer and are common enough..

From what I hear they are good for getting the tropical/passion-fruit flavors to come through.

From what I have read on here El Dorado is really strong on the tropical fruit flavors but NOT as a standalone hop, but produces some great flavors that come out when paired with Simcoe and/or Citra. (Which also seems to fit with this recipe)

The other NZ hop that comes to mind (IF, in fact an NZ hop is still in the beer after a Riwaka became reportedly difficult to get, would be Galaxy.

I mention Galaxy due to the passion-fruit flavors

2) Yeast - British? :

do we know for sure that this is a regular west coast type clean ale yeast? Can we definitely rule out an S-04 or WLP 002 type of yeast here? It seems to me that British yeasts really make some of the fruity characteristics pop, and produce maybe a slight "tang" that everyone seems to be missing. This would also be consistent with the idea that Moon Man is kind of half-British, half American

Also, I notice a slight tartness imparted by British ale yeast. Made a session ale, with some of the characteristics of Moon Man (bitterness, hops additions, color etc) with a British yeast and it seems to impart some tartness, similar to Belgians.

Wheat?: I have read wheat imparts some tartness but don't have a ton of experience with this. I am assuming it would be a pretty small amount if it was in there.

All for now,

Wooden

 

[CaptainKi11z]

Bringing this thread back to life since my batch just finished carbonation.

Aroma: Nice hop forward aroma, but not overpowering. Mostly citrus and fruit, minimal yeast character but some malt character.

Appearance: Bright clear gold, can read through the glass. Creamy off white head with some larger bubbles, falls quickly with good lace.

Flavor: Low forward hop bitterness but good hop flavor. Citrus again in the flavor, along with some floral hop character to my mouth. Fairly sweet, with some lingering sweetness towards the back of the tongue. Carbonation is moderate to high so some bite there which might exaggerate the hop bitterness in the aftertaste.

Mouthfeel: Good body to balance the moderate carbonation, very smooth drinking beer.

Overall I am very happy with the way this beer turned out. I am not sure that I hit a Moon Man, there are some flavors especially around the aftertaste that I think are common to my process and are likely imperfections, but this is obviously a solid recipe. In general I think I was a little too sweet compared to my last bottle of Moon Man, and I don't remember as much lingering after-taste in the commercial example. I love this base beer, and if I change anything when I brew it again it will be to personal taste not to get closer to Moon Man.

Be Careful - This is a VERY Drinkable beer. I pulled one pint and wasn't sure how I felt about it so I had to pull a second. After the second I was sure there was something in the aftertaste I couldn't quite identify. By the end of the third I was thinking I had it figured out, and when I finished the fourth pint I knew what it was -> Too Drinkable :cross:


Process Notes:
I forgot to do a Mash-Out step... Doh! My efficiency was 5-10% lower than I have gotten with BIAB in the past, and I give some of that to the missed mash-out. The rest may have come from a new milled grain source (YVH).

I subbed a limited release Wyeast sample (Mount Hood). It left more yeast character than I remember in the commercial and I think I might like that.

I fined the batch with gelatin during the cold crash, I like the results of that. I also grabbed a pint jar of the yeast slurry to re-pitch in my next batch. Fermented at 66 all the way through, dry hopped for 7 days, cold crashed to 34.

The recipe and my brew log are attached if anyone cares.

I'm going to give this recipe a shot. I love Moon Man (in fact it's my favorite!) and this description sounds like what I want. If anyone has any suggestions or has toyed with any close recipes, let me know if any adjustments might need to be made here. I'm not expecting perfection and wouldn't mind having to make alterations myself, as this will be my first shot at an "experimental" (non-kit/brew book) recipe. Otherwise, brewing starts Sunday (hopefully).

 

[BeardedBrews]

If anyone has any suggestions or has toyed with any close recipes, let me know if any adjustments might need to be made here.

I haven't done a second batch of this, but I enjoyed the first keg all the way to the bottom. It looks like it was gone by the end of December based on my notes, but I don't have any tasting notes from later in the keg.

I still have a small bag of the hops blend in my freezer from the extras... I guess it might be time to give this one a second shot.

 

[MrPowers]

Time to bring this back from the dead.

I'm drinking a Moon Man right now, for the first time actually. Very impressed. Easily the most drinkable pale ale I've ever had.

I'm not familiar with El Dorado, but I'm very convinced this beer centers on Galaxy. The hop flavor is very similar to Schlafly's Tasmanian IPA, which showcases Galaxy. I would bet a very small bittering addition at 60(something neutral, Bravo or Magnum), and then use hop bursting to get to somewhere around 30/35 ibu. Simple grain bill, although I haven't pinned that down yet. Fermented with Kölsch yeast (WLP029.

 

[TestTickle]

Time to bring this back from the dead.

I'm drinking a Moon Man right now, for the first time actually. Very impressed. Easily the most drinkable pale ale I've ever had.

I'm not familiar with El Dorado, but I'm very convinced this beer centers on Galaxy. The hop flavor is very similar to Schlafly's Tasmanian IPA, which showcases Galaxy. I would bet a very small bittering addition at 60(something neutral, Bravo or Magnum), and then use hop bursting to get to somewhere around 30/35 ibu. Simple grain bill, although I haven't pinned that down yet. Fermented with Kölsch yeast (WLP029.

I also believe that there is Galaxy in it, but I think that the Amarillo hop flavor shines a bit more than the other hops. Three Floyds Gumballhead to me has a very similar hop flavor, and it's all Amarillo. I am brewing this again next week, but will be going a little lighter on the other hops and a little heavier on Amarillo for each addition and maybe just slightly more Galaxy at flame out and dry hop.

 

[Steven Barrett]

I also believe that there is Galaxy in it, but I think that the Amarillo hop flavor shines a bit more than the other hops. Three Floyds Gumballhead to me has a very similar hop flavor, and it's all Amarillo. I am brewing this again next week, but will be going a little lighter on the other hops and a little heavier on Amarillo for each addition and maybe just slightly more Galaxy at flame out and dry hop.

This article may help pinpoint the recipe. One noticeable difference is the hopping rate of 2.5 lb/bbl, which is closer to 4.75 oz per 5 gal batch, whereas most recipes on here seem to be nearly twice that.

https://isthmus.com/food-drink/beer/beer-here-moon-man-no-coast-pale-ale-from-new-glarus-brewing/

 

[TestTickle]

This article may help pinpoint the recipe. One noticeable difference is the hopping rate of 2.5 lb/bbl, which is closer to 4.75 oz per 5 gal batch, whereas most recipes on here seem to be nearly twice that.

https://isthmus.com/food-drink/beer/beer-here-moon-man-no-coast-pale-ale-from-new-glarus-brewing/

I remember reading that. A couple of things:

• It would actually be closer to 5.75 oz per 5 gallons, wouldn't it? (Still about 1.5 oz less than the recipes here)
• Dan says most are dry hops, which tells us that we could be looking at close to 3 oz of dry hops for 5 gallons, with at the most 2.75 oz for kettle hops.
• To achieve the hop flavor/aroma with such a low amount of kettle hops, maybe we are looking at all higher alpha hops (with Amarillo being the lowest)? Or, if a lower alpha hop is used, maybe it's reserved strictly for dry hopping? Also, perhaps there is only a 15 minute boil addition and a whirlpool addition in the kettle? Maybe a 180 degree whirlpool for 15-20 minutes?
• He also says he uses equal amounts of each of the five hops, but that doesn't necessarily mean that all five are used in each hop addition.

Just thinking out loud. The recipes I have used still have resulted in really good beer, but there is still a specific flavor and aroma missing. We'll never nail it, but it's fun to try and we're still ending up with some nice, drinkable brews.

I had a MM several days ago at a buddy's house. I'm not sure how long it sat in his fridge, but it was noticeably more malty than normal...still some hop flavor, but not a lot of aroma. There is no doubt that it's all late hop additions.

 

[Steven Barrett]

I remember reading that. A couple of things:

• It would actually be closer to 5.75 oz per 5 gallons, wouldn't it? (Still about 1.5 oz less than the recipes here)
• Dan says most are dry hops, which tells us that we could be looking at close to 3 oz of dry hops for 5 gallons, with at the most 2.75 oz for kettle hops.
• To achieve the hop flavor/aroma with such a low amount of kettle hops, maybe we are looking at all higher alpha hops (with Amarillo being the lowest)? Or, if a lower alpha hop is used, maybe it's reserved strictly for dry hopping? Also, perhaps there is only a 15 minute boil addition and a whirlpool addition in the kettle? Maybe a 180 degree whirlpool for 15-20 minutes?
• He also says he uses equal amounts of each of the five hops, but that doesn't necessarily mean that all five are used in each hop addition.

Just thinking out loud. The recipes I have used still have resulted in really good beer, but there is still a specific flavor and aroma missing. We'll never nail it, but it's fun to try and we're still ending up with some nice, drinkable brews.

I had a MM several days ago at a buddy's house. I'm not sure how long it sat in his fridge, but it was noticeably more malty than normal...still some hop flavor, but not a lot of aroma. There is no doubt that it's all late hop additions.

My bad on the math. I googled BBL and apparently crude oil barrels are different than beer barrels(?)

I was about to say the same regarding aroma. I’ve had the same experience with Moon Man, where it’s tasted like two different beers. Like all beers, the aroma will fade with time, so the best side by side would be drinking it fresh from the bottle or keg. Which post/recipe do you think is the best imitation?

One thought. Why no 60 minute hops? It seems most of these recipes are only late hope additions which in the bittering sense, is not the most efficient.

 

[TestTickle]

My bad on the math. I googled BBL and apparently crude oil barrels are different than beer barrels(?)

I was about to say the same regarding aroma. I’ve had the same experience with Moon Man, where it’s tasted like two different beers. Like all beers, the aroma will fade with time, so the best side by side would be drinking it fresh from the bottle or keg. Which post/recipe do you think is the best imitation?

One thought. Why no 60 minute hops? It seems most of these recipes are only late hope additions which in the bittering sense, is not the most efficient.

Honestly, I don't remember which one was closest, but none of them really were imitations per se. They were all missing just a little something. All good beers for sure, but missing what I felt was an important quality that MM gets from the hops. For my next batch I am going with Amarillo, Citra, Mosaic, Simcoe and Galaxy to see what happens. The last time I had the real thing, I noticed what seemed to be a hint of berry flavor, which Mosaic can produce. I think the grain bill is ok...pretty simple.

As for 60 minute hops, the fact that MM is meant to be enjoyed fresh (as evidenced by the quickly fading hop character and the description on the can) and overall has more flavor than bitterness suggests that they are all late hop additions to me.

Here's what I am brewing either this weekend or next:

Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.048 SG
Estimated Color: 5.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 31.8 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Boil Time: 60 minutes

8 lbs 8.0 oz 2-Row Malt
8.0 oz Caramel 40
4.0 oz Carapils

0.20 oz Amarillo 15 min
0.20 oz Citra 15 min
0.20 oz Galaxy 15 min
0.20 oz Mosaic 15 min
0.20 oz Simcoe 15 min

0.25 oz Amarillo 5 min
0.25 oz Citra 5 min
0.25 oz Galaxy 5 min
0.25 oz Mosaic 5 min
0.25 oz Simcoe 5 min

0.25 oz Amarillo Flameout
0.25 oz Citra Flameout
0.25 oz Galaxy Flameout
0.25 oz Mosaic Flameout
0.25 oz Simcoe Flameout

0.60 oz Amarillo Dry Hop 7.0 Days
0.60 oz Citra Dry Hop 7.0 Days
0.60 oz Galaxy Dry Hop 7.0 Days
0.60 oz Mosaic Dry Hop 7.0 Days
0.60 oz Simcoe Dry Hop 7.0 Days

Mashing at 152F and fermenting with US-05

 

[TestTickle]

Just a follow up for anyone still following this thread, the recipe above really turned out great. Unfortunately, I have no more Moon Man to do a side-by-side, but from memory, it's the closest that I have been. I think that the Mosaic was a good addition.

Clone? Probably not. Close? Close enough. Great beer? Absolutely! It will now be one of the handful of brews in my regular rotation for sure.

 

[Steven Barrett]

Just a follow up for anyone still following this thread, the recipe above really turned out great. Unfortunately, I have no more Moon Man to do a side-by-side, but from memory, it's the closest that I have been. I think that the Mosaic was a good addition.

Clone? Probably not. Close? Close enough. Great beer? Absolutely! It will now be one of the handful of brews in my regular rotation for sure.

Glad to hear! I want to try it out. It's good to have an expectation of taste, versus rolling the dice on a random recipe which, even if you nailed it, you might not like it.