New fermenter

[David Farmer]

Thinking about going with a conical fermenter. Really like the look of this one but my concern is it has the potential to be a leaky unstable mess. Anyone used one? Or could recommend a better choice? Looking to stay at a 6 gallon minimum without going too expensive. Mainly will be used for ciders. Thanks all.

 

[lumpher]

Fermzillas are very popular fermenters. You mentioned minimum 6 gallons and cider, and that 1 is 13.2 gallons. Are you sure you want that big of a fermenter for headspace? You also need to consider a fermentation chamber that will hold what you have. Just a couple thoughts before you make the move.

 

[Gajol]

I’m running two FermZillas: one 30L All Rounder and one 27L Tri-Clover. I’ve never experienced any leaks, either liquid or pressure. They’re also easy to clean and maintain.

 

[David Farmer]

Fermzillas are very popular fermenters. You mentioned minimum 6 gallons and cider, and that 1 is 13.2 gallons. Are you sure you want that big of a fermenter for headspace? You also need to consider a fermentation chamber that will hold what you have. Just a couple thoughts before you make the move.

It would be fairly easy to double my recipes to a 12 gallon batch and my basement tends to run about 64 degrees year round so a chamber is also not an issue. My wife wanting my head on a stick due to a large sticky mess is. Lol

 

[David Farmer]

I’m running two FermZillas: one 30L All Rounder and one 27L Tri-Clover. I’ve never experienced any leaks, either liquid or pressure. They’re also easy to clean and maintain.

Exactly what I was hoping to hear. Thank you very much!

 

[Scottyward]

I have that 13 gallon FermZilla and 2 other smaller ones. I Us them all on the regular and no problems or leaks. The 55 L one is tough to clean but not impossible.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

It would be fairly easy to double my recipes to a 12 gallon batch and my basement tends to run about 64 degrees year round so a chamber is also not an issue. My wife wanting my head on a stick due to a large sticky mess is. Lol

I can relate to the sticky mess and an upset wife. During brew day or beer transfers there's potential for a sticky floor. I tell her that's why the brewery isn't carpeted. She doesn't find that humorous.

To contain some drips or spills you could get one of those pans for water heaters or something similar to place under your fermenter. The water heater pans have a side hole for drainage that could be used or covered.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

I have also learned to place carboys inside of brew buckets, dish pans, wash tubs, whatever it will fit into, to catch the stickiness from an overactive fermentation, etc. You can just never predict when it will happen and this little extra effort might save your tail!

 

[David Farmer]

I have that 13 gallon FermZilla and 2 other smaller ones. I Us them all on the regular and no problems or leaks. The 55 L one is tough to clean but not impossible.

Tough because of the chamber size I assume? Or do the valves require extra care? I figured it'd probably have to be cleaned in the tub just because of how big it is.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

How about putting your fermenter in the shower, provided you have one?

 

[AlexKay]

I haven't used the Fermzilla myself. I don't harvest yeast, and therefore have no need at all for the dump valve. Is it a feature you need? If not, have you looked at the Fermonster? I don't adore them, but have never had any significant problem with them, either. A spigot near the bottom is a good thing (because siphoning sucks.) And they're cheap -- you could get a 7-gal and a 5-gal for primary/secondary for your ciders. Heck, you could probably get two of each for the price of the Fermzilla.

If you do get Fermonsters, buy yourself the ~$5 lid wrench right away.

I actually prefer the (plastic!) Big Mouth Bubblers, but availability has been terrible for a long time -- maybe they are discontinuing the product.

And if you're ever going to ferment something with hops, be sure to have a black drop cloth or something else to keep all light out.

 

[Brewer Mike]

I was looking at the smaller version of that one. 7.9G I think. My concerns were moving it (I brew outside and ferment in the basement), it won't fit in my fermentation chamber, and (if memory serves) it's got a pretty low max temperature rating, and can't handle hot PBW CIP. The hop bong attachment is very appealing.

 

[Broken Crow]

I've got the first-gen 14 gallon Fermzilla and apart from the annoyance of unscrewing the bottom, I find it super easy to clean..plently of room to reach inside and scrub the lightwieght body, while I clean the valve assembly in my laundry tub.
I'm gonna echo @AlexKay : Do you really need the dump valve? Though I think it's a great product for its price, I do wish I had bought the All-Rounder version instead, but only because I don't really need the collection tub and that's just one more area of additional work.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

That collection jar might not be used/needed but a dump valve might be helpful for cleaning.

Very different, but I use my conical dump valve to dump some of the trub a few days before transferring and also it helps with cleanup. I fill the fermenter with warm water, slop it around them dump into a bucket. Just some ideas of using a dump valve.

 

[Broken Crow]

That collection jar might not be used/needed but a dump valve might be helpful for cleaning.

Very different, but I use my conical dump valve to dump some of the trub a few days before transferring and also it helps with cleanup. I fill the fermenter with warm water, slop it around them dump into a bucket. Just some ideas of using a dump valve.

I guess I left out part of what I wanted get across; With the Fermzilla, I don't feel I can fully clean it without removing the whole valve assembly from the bottom as it does get a bit of 'creepage' in the body/valve-assembly area and needs to be disassembled to fully clean pretty much making CIP a non-starter. As @Brewer Mike mentions; It can't handle hot enough PBW for a standard CIP routine either so you really do have to get in there by hand. The PET plastic body really is lightwieght enough that I can hold it in one hand while using the other to scrub inside over my kitchen sink...and I'm disabled.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

I guess I left out part of what I wanted get across; With the Fermzilla, I don't feel I can fully clean it without removing the whole valve assembly from the bottom as it does get a bit of 'creepage' in the body/valve-assembly area and needs to be disassembled to fully clean pretty much making CIP a non-starter. As @Brewer Mike mentions; It can't handle hot enough PBW for a standard CIP routine either so you really do have to get in there by hand. The PET plastic body really is lightwieght enough that I can hold it in one hand while using the other to scrub inside over my kitchen sink...and I'm disabled.

Good points for overall cleaning.

 

[Raptor99]

I have also learned to place carboys inside of brew buckets, dish pans, wash tubs, whatever it will fit into, to catch the stickiness from an overactive fermentation, etc. You can just never predict when it will happen and this little extra effort might save your tail!

Or just do your primary fermentation in a food grade bucket, with plenty of extra space. Problem solved!

I suppose it depends on the batch size. Some ppl on winemakingtalk.com use Brute trash cans made of food grade plastic. https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/brute-trash-can.79298/

 

[Closet Fermenter]

Or just do your primary fermentation in a food grade bucket, with plenty of extra space. Problem solved!

I suppose it depends on the batch size. Some ppl on winemakingtalk.com use Brute trash cans made of food grade plastic. https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/brute-trash-can.79298/

I can’t argue with that logic, but I have tried to stay away from the plastic. I have used plastic many times, and still have plastic fermenting buckets around, but a few years ago, I made the effort to go with either stainless steel or glass. Typically, it was glass for my wine and stainless steel for my beer. However, I am seriously considering moving to PET carboys. A review of the glass carboy mishap thread has me reconsidering. I have started doing closed transfers with my wine, and even a tiny bit of pressure on a glass carboy makes me nervous. Weight is an issue too as I age. Further, just the fragile nature of the carboy even in storage is an issue. I have only lost one carboy to breakage, and it was when a small item fell from a shelf above and struck it. Fortunately, it was idle at the time, so I only lost the carboy.
I am usually careful about topping up my carboy until after a few days have passed and the vigorous activity settles a bit. Since I adopted this technique, I have had only one push out through the bubbler. I admit; I rushed it a bit. The downside to this technique is that you can’t really get an accurate OG. I can check my juice, calculate needed additional sugar for full volume, and just assume that is my starting gravity, then just let it roll until it’s done. I have never been disappointed because I couldn’t certify the ABV.

 

[Raptor99]

I can’t argue with that logic, but I have tried to stay away from the plastic. I have used plastic many times, and still have plastic fermenting buckets around, but a few years ago, I made the effort to go with either stainless steel or glass. Typically, it was glass for my wine and stainless steel for my beer. However, I am seriously considering moving to PET carboys. A review of the glass carboy mishap thread has me reconsidering. I have started doing closed transfers with my wine, and even a tiny bit of pressure on a glass carboy makes me nervous. Weight is an issue too as I age. Further, just the fragile nature of the carboy even in storage is an issue. I have only lost one carboy to breakage, and it was when a small item fell from a shelf above and struck it. Fortunately, it was idle at the time, so I only lost the carboy.

You make a lot of good points. I use food grade plastic buckets for my primary (usually 5-6 days), but after that it is all glass carboys. I have back problems, so I shouldn't try to lift a full carboy larger than 1 gallon. That's one reason I got the All in One Wine Pump. I have things set up so that I never need to move a full carboy, except to slide it around on the counter.

I am usually careful about topping up my carboy until after a few days have passed and the vigorous activity settles a bit. Since I adopted this technique, I have had only one push out through the bubbler. I admit; I rushed it a bit. The downside to this technique is that you can’t really get an accurate OG. I can check my juice, calculate needed additional sugar for full volume, and just assume that is my starting gravity, then just let it roll until it’s done. I have never been disappointed because I couldn’t certify the ABV.

Waiting to add some of the water once fermentation is nearly finished is a workable solution. You can estimate the final ABV, but not get an exact measurement. But as you, I don't really care about that as long as I have an approximate value for guests who ask.

The other advantage to a bucket is that it gives the yeast more exposure to oxygen, which yeast need in the early stages, and it is easier to stir vigorously to degas and introduce some more oxygen.

 

[Knightshade]

I can relate to the sticky mess and an upset wife. During brew day or beer transfers there's potential for a sticky floor. I tell her that's why the brewery isn't carpeted. She doesn't find that humorous.

To contain some drips or spills you could get one of those pans for water heaters or something similar to place under your fermenter. The water heater pans have a side hole for drainage that could be used or covered.

If…you’re in absolute need of brownie points because your SO wants whatever area we brew in to be carpeted.

Carpet tiles! They fairly inexpensive because the whole idea is that there is no consistent pattern, color, etc., but if any one area gets ruined you can simply replace a couple of the tiles vs ripping up the whole damn thing.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

If…you’re in absolute need of brownie points because your SO wants whatever area we brew in to be carpeted.

Carpet tiles! They fairly inexpensive because the whole idea is that there is no consistent pattern, color, etc., but if any one area gets ruined you can simply replace a couple of the tiles vs ripping up the whole damn thing.

A carpeted brewery is like having the bathroom carpeted. There's always going to be a spill. My mom can attest to that. Growing up with two brothers and a carpeted bathroom. You get my point.

No carpet in the brewery, period.

 

[David Farmer]

I haven't used the Fermzilla myself. I don't harvest yeast, and therefore have no need at all for the dump valve. Is it a feature you need? If not, have you looked at the Fermonster? I don't adore them, but have never had any significant problem with them, either. A spigot near the bottom is a good thing (because siphoning sucks.) And they're cheap -- you could get a 7-gal and a 5-gal for primary/secondary for your ciders. Heck, you could probably get two of each for the price of the Fermzilla.

If you do get Fermonsters, buy yourself the ~$5 lid wrench right away.

I actually prefer the (plastic!) Big Mouth Bubblers, but availability has been terrible for a long time -- maybe they are discontinuing the product.

And if you're ever going to ferment something with hops, be sure to have a black drop cloth or something else to keep all light out.

After thinking on what you said I went with the 7 gal Fermonster. Really don't need the 13g capacity and the spigot works fine for what I'm doing. Basically the same as my Spiedel just I can actually see what's going on in this one. And I just can't get over that the Fermzilla looks so damn unstable.
Thanks for the hops tip. Probably will brew beer at some point. Just haven't got adventurous enough yet.

 

[David Farmer]

I've got the first-gen 14 gallon Fermzilla and apart from the annoyance of unscrewing the bottom, I find it super easy to clean..plently of room to reach inside and scrub the lightwieght body, while I clean the valve assembly in my laundry tub.
I'm gonna echo @AlexKay : Do you really need the dump valve? Though I think it's a great product for its price, I do wish I had bought the All-Rounder version instead, but only because I don't really need the collection tub and that's just one more area of additional work.

Yeah. Same thought Alex's comment brought me to. I font really need a dump valve. Can be handy I guess but more to clean. Went with a 7g Fermonster instead.

 

[David Farmer]

Or just do your primary fermentation in a food grade bucket, with plenty of extra space. Problem solved!

I suppose it depends on the batch size. Some ppl on winemakingtalk.com use Brute trash cans made of food grade plastic. https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/brute-trash-can.79298/

My Grandpa used to use trash cans to make elderberry wine. Seemed to work fine.
Food grade buckets are almost the price of a good fermenter with plenty of headspace. With a spigot they're just as much. I won't buy anything without a spigot again. That's a deal breaker for me.

 

[David Farmer]

I can’t argue with that logic, but I have tried to stay away from the plastic. I have used plastic many times, and still have plastic fermenting buckets around, but a few years ago, I made the effort to go with either stainless steel or glass. Typically, it was glass for my wine and stainless steel for my beer. However, I am seriously considering moving to PET carboys. A review of the glass carboy mishap thread has me reconsidering. I have started doing closed transfers with my wine, and even a tiny bit of pressure on a glass carboy makes me nervous. Weight is an issue too as I age. Further, just the fragile nature of the carboy even in storage is an issue. I have only lost one carboy to breakage, and it was when a small item fell from a shelf above and struck it. Fortunately, it was idle at the time, so I only lost the carboy.
I am usually careful about topping up my carboy until after a few days have passed and the vigorous activity settles a bit. Since I adopted this technique, I have had only one push out through the bubbler. I admit; I rushed it a bit. The downside to this technique is that you can’t really get an accurate OG. I can check my juice, calculate needed additional sugar for full volume, and just assume that is my starting gravity, then just let it roll until it’s done. I have never been disappointed because I couldn’t certify the ABV.

I love my glass carboys. But man are they heavy and can be a bear to clean and sanitize. I bought 2 PET carboys last month. Honestly can't say I'll buy glass again. Esthetically not as nice but they weigh nothing and won't shatter if you drop them. I seriously thought I had received empty boxes when they were delivered.

 

[AlexKay]

Did you get the lid wrench? For some reason, after fermentation, when it's time to take the lid off, it can be darn-near-impossible to do without that $5 wrench.

 

[Knightshade]

Agreed, definitely worth the investment. The lids really get stuck into a death grip and the wrench makes it so simple easy to loosen.

 

[Raptor99]

Food grade buckets are almost the price of a good fermenter with plenty of headspace. With a spigot they're just as much. I won't buy anything without a spigot again. That's a deal breaker for me.

You can get a 5-gallon food grade bucket at Home Depot for $5.98. I don't think it would cost much to buy a spigot and mount it in the bucket. Larger sized buckets would be more expensive and more difficult to find.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

For twenty bucks, More Beer has a six gallon food grade bucket with cover, level markings and a spigot.

Throw in a beer kit and/or some other brewing items to get free shipping and you're good to go.

Small investment to ferment beer, wine or whatever.

 

[David Farmer]

Did you get the lid wrench? For some reason, after fermentation, when it's time to take the lid off, it can be darn-near-impossible to do without that $5 wrench.

I probably should have. I've got an oil filter strap wrench in the garage. Unless there's something really odd to the shape of the lid it should be fine.

 

[waynetempro]

What about using some white 5 gallon buckets as fermenters? You can fill them to about the 4 gallon mark and that would give you plenty of headspace to ferment. If you are making an 8 gallon batch, then split it between two buckets. Grab a couple of the 2 gallon white buckets for anything that goes over that it and for small batches. An advantage of using them like this is that it’s easier to handle a bucket that had 4 gallons of brew. And you also make a variant in the second or third bucket from the original recipe.

 

[Yesfan]

You can get a 5-gallon food grade bucket at Home Depot for $5.98. I don't think it would cost much to buy a spigot and mount it in the bucket. Larger sized buckets would be more expensive and more difficult to find.

You can save that $5.98 and put that towards the spigot. Instead of Home Depot, go to a bakery or the bakery dept of your grocery store. The icing buckets they use are throw aways. You can't beat free. The nicer bakers may even rinse the bucket/lids for you too.

I probably should have. I've got an oil filter strap wrench in the garage. Unless there's something really odd to the shape of the lid it should be fine.

I've used both. You're good either way, but I do think the Fermonster lid handle makes it a bit easier than a strap wrench. I also just snug the lid too after filling. This makes the lids much easier to get off with the wrench.

Check out the thread where you can add a floating dip to the Fermonster's lid.

 

[rlrohan]

You can save that $5.98 and put that towards the spigot. Instead of Home Depot, go to a bakery or the bakery dept of your grocery store. The icing buckets they use are throw aways. You can't beat free. The nicer bakers may even rinse the bucket/lids for you too.

I have a few icing buckets from Walmart. They work great for storing grain. The 3 or so gallon round ones even had a gasket in the lid. The larger rectangular shaped buckets I got from there I use for soaking and cleaning bottles. Can't beat the price!