New England IPA New England Style TIPA

[DVCNick]

Question about the white wheat here, is it white wheat malt, or something else?

Thanks, looking forward to giving this a try.

 

[Dgallo]

Question about the white wheat here, is it white wheat malt, or something else?

Thanks, looking forward to giving this a try.

White wheat malt.

 

[DVCNick]

Another question, are you still waiting for complete fermentation, then doing a crash before the first dry hop?

 

[DVCNick]

Sounds good... all the rest of the stuff I need is on order. Looking forward to getting this one in the fermenter.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Grain bill
17lbs - Pilsner
3lbs - Malted Oats
2lbs - White Wheat
0.75lb - Honey Malt
1lb - dextrose
(My efficiency is around 63-65% on a grainbill this big so you’ll have to adjust for your big beer efficiency)

Mash @153*f for 60 mins Ph 5.35

Water Profile:
Ca: 92
Mg: 9
Cl: 162
Na: 71
So4: 106

Hops:
Riwaka - 7 oz
Nelson - 5 oz
Citra - 3 oz
Columbus - 2 oz

Yeast - Imperial A24 - dryhop

Hop Schedule:
- 1.0oz Columbus @ 60 mins
- 1.0oz Columbus @ 10 mins

Hopstand/whirlpool:
- 3.0 oz Riwaka @ 160*f
- 2.0 oz Nelson @ 160*f

Dryhop(2 stage):
4 days left to cold crash
- 2.0 oz Riwaka
- 1.5 oz Nelson
- 1.5 oz Citra

2 days left to cold crash
- 2.0 oz Riwaka
- 1.5 oz Nelson
- 1.5 oz Citra

Set for 2.5 vols of co2
Let condition for 2 weeks before first pour.

Use anti-oxygen best practices for your system for dryhoping, transferring, and kegging.
_____________________________________

Before brewing this beer I had a very difficult time finding quality resources or recipes on this style. So I based this off my own experience and modeled it after Other Half and Equilibrium TIPAS

I’m very happy to share this recipe with the community. This beer came out amazing and the hop combo was exceptional. The hops pop with lots of tropical fruit, citrus, and white wine but have beautiful undertones of earth and dankness to add a well rounded complexity. The alcohol is very well hidden and the mouthfeel is pillow soft.

View attachment 678776

OK, so Im finally able to start planning one of these myself and wanted to pick your brain on the grain bill. FWIW, Ive only gone as high as ~8.2%ABV on my NEIPAs for comparison. Question: I love the slickness (which to me helps for the "juicy" mouthfeel) of flaked oats. Why'd ya go with all malted oats in this one? My usual right now is that I like is a blend of white wheat, flaked oats and malted oats for 7.5-8.0% ABV beers. Ive actually scaled back my malted oats recently because Ive found that malted can tend to give a little more "burn"? (not sure if thats the right word). The downside, IMO of the flaked oats, is that in my limited experience flaked oats kills head retention. So just curious on your thoughts of the balance of the oats/wheat mixture.

 

[ChiknNutz]

I just brewed what I'd consider a double NEIPA. It finished at 8.7% ABV Here is my grain bill. This was inspired by the other NEIPA thread, but I increased the grains to bump the ABV. I just tapped this a couple days ago, admittedly it is still a bit "green" and could use some more time to finish. The lactose contributes to mouthfeel. Cannot really comment on head retention as it's still a bit under carb'd, but it's not great at the moment so there could be something to your point about the flaked oats. Aside from this, I am pleased with how it turned out.

 

[Dgallo]

OK, so Im finally able to start planning one of these myself and wanted to pick your brain on the grain bill. FWIW, Ive only gone as high as ~8.2%ABV on my NEIPAs for comparison. Question: I love the slickness (which to me helps for the "juicy" mouthfeel) of flaked oats. Why'd ya go with all malted oats in this one? My usual right now is that I like is a blend of white wheat, flaked oats and malted oats for 7.5-8.0% ABV beers. Ive actually scaled back my malted oats recently because Ive found that malted can tend to give a little more "burn"? (not sure if thats the right word). The downside, IMO of the flaked oats, is that in my limited experience flaked oats kills head retention. So just curious on your thoughts of the balance of the oats/wheat mixture.

When using oats in ipa , mostly of the time I used malted oat verses flaked. I perfer the mouthfeel of malted oats verses flaked oats. Also you can go up higher in percentage with malted vs. flaked and not have issues with stuck sparges because of the husk. Malted oats have smaller molecular proteins chains so the haze is more stable and won’t floc out as quickly because it has less molecular weight. I will say that there is definitely a greater risk of getting hopburn due to this but with the proper process you already use for dryhoping, do the same here.

With the oat/wheat percentages, ive been back and forth. I think I actually prefer more wheat verses oats. I haven’t remade this doing that though.

My biggest word of advice is efficiency drops as gravity increases, so plan accordingly. Alcohol brings sweetness so don’t be afraid to give it at least 60 ibus. Other than that, you’re making a NEIPA with more grain, so use all the proper practices you use on those beers

 

[Dgallo]

Brewed this base recipe a couple of weeks ago using Vic, Citra, Galaxy. Also, instead of using my regular yeast (usually 1318), I pitched a built up starter from a bunch of cans of Treehouse. Fermentation seemed to go great, but we'll see. I'll be kegging Thursday or Friday this week.

How did this beer turn out?

 

[WonkyDonkey]

@Dgallo I'm looking to brew a DIPA version of your recipe this week. Scaling the recipe down how many IBUs would you go with? Currently if got it at 70, do you think that would work or is that a little high?

ps Thanks for the single hop base recipe, I've made some great beer lately using that

 

[Dgallo]

@Dgallo I'm looking to brew a DIPA version of your recipe this week. Scaling the recipe down how many IBUs would you go with? Currently if got it at 70, do you think that would work or is that a little high?

ps Thanks for the single hop base recipe, I've made some great beer lately using that

I’m glad those beers came out good for you. So to scale down your ibus just multiply your OG by the BU to GU Ratio which is roughly 0.65.

say your target OG Is 1.078. Take 78 x .65 = 50 ibus

 

[WonkyDonkey]

I’m glad those beers came out good for you. So to scale down your ibus just multiply your OG by the BU to GU Ratio which is roughly 0.65.

say your target OG Is 1.078. Take 78 x .65 = 50 ibus

That's great, thanks for the tip to calculate the IBUs. Would you recommend just reducing the CTZ at 60 & 10 evenly or would you only knock down the 60 to get the desired effect? Best to leave the WP as it is?

 

[Dgallo]

That's great, thanks for the tip to calculate the IBUs. Would you recommend just reducing the CTZ at 60 & 10 evenly or would you only knock down the 60 to get the desired effect? Best to leave the WP as it is?

I’d just knock down the 60 min. You’ll still want the flavor contributions from the later additions

 

[WonkyDonkey]

I’d just knock down the 60 min. You’ll still want the flavor contributions from the later additions

Excellent thanks for the quick reply, looking forward to trying this out

 

[chuckeg15]

How did this beer turn out?

Actually turned out pretty good. Aroma is great, body is a little thinner than I'd like. However, I think I'll stick to my usual yeast next time. There is a flavor that is tough to describe in the first few sips, I'm not sure if it's the harvested yeast or the vic secret. After my palate adjusts, it's delicious with a tiny booziness at the end.

 

[secretlevel]

@Dgallo do you add a similar 60 min addition to your single or double IPAs? I've always wanted to emulate the smooth underlying bitterness that some of the Tree House beers have. I've really been digging beers like that recently, it helps balance the sweetness without cutting through the juiciness.

 

[Dgallo]

@Dgallo do you add a similar 60 min addition to your single or double IPAs? I've always wanted to emulate the smooth underlying bitterness that some of the Tree House beers have. I've really been digging beers like that recently, it helps balance the sweetness without cutting through the juiciness.

I agree. I pretty much always target .5-.65 BU/GU it total, so the 60 minute is dependent on that. Makes them more drinkable.

Another thing to always think about is so4 additions to be at least 100ppm. If you really like treehouse it is rumored their so4 / Cl is higher in so4.

 

[couchsending]

@Dgallo do you add a similar 60 min addition to your single or double IPAs? I've always wanted to emulate the smooth underlying bitterness that some of the Tree House beers have. I've really been digging beers like that recently, it helps balance the sweetness without cutting through the juiciness.

Bitterness or dryness? To me the Treehouse beers aren’t very bitter but they’re also not very sweet. They’re relatively light on the palate for the FG in my opinion. This is sulfate driven.

You’ve seen the tests of their beers (if you believe a Ward Labs report about beer) and the Sulfates are high but Ca is always pretty low which is interesting. Only way to achieve that is to add all your salts to the mash with water that has a decent amount of alkalinity. The Ca will react with the alkalinity and also get bound up in the mash but the Sulfate and Chloride ions make it through into the wort.

Wouldn’t surprise me if they’re adjusting mash pH with just salts then adjusting sparge and kettle pH with acid but no salt additions in the kettle. I’d say they’re targeting a kettle full pH close to 5.0. It helps to minimize protein coagulation and lowers bitterness due to less isomerization of AA at the lower pH.

 

[secretlevel]

Bitterness or dryness? To me the Treehouse beers aren’t very bitter but they’re also not very sweet. They’re relatively light on the palate for the FG in my opinion. This is sulfate driven.

You’ve seen the tests of their beers (if you believe a Ward Labs report about beer) and the Sulfates are high but Ca is always pretty low which is interesting. Only way to achieve that is to add all your salts to the mash with water that has a decent amount of alkalinity. The Ca will react with the alkalinity and also get bound up in the mash but the Sulfate and Chloride ions make it through into the wort.

Wouldn’t surprise me if they’re adjusting mash pH with just salts then adjusting sparge and kettle pH with acid but no salt additions in the kettle. I’d say they’re targeting a kettle full pH close to 5.0. It helps to minimize protein coagulation and lowers bitterness due to less isomerization of AA at the lower pH.

Tree House still tastes full-bodied to me and you're right, not bitter. There's definitely just enough boil hops there to help offset the sweetness. Maybe its worth measuring FG next time.

Have you tried lowering pH in kettle? Any good results?

Average final profile Third Leap mentioned for Tree House:
Ca 96, Mg 5, Na 10, Cl 198, SO4 117.

I'm going to start experimenting with bitterness and water profiles though, adding more Sulfate as well. Will probably report back in the Tree House thread

 

[couchsending]

Their hoppy beers generally fall in the 1.014-1.016 range give or take. I always find that their beers are shockingly full when they hit the front of the palate yet never heavy or cloying. Finish is light and leaves you wanting to take another sip. This is very much water and pH related.

I have kettle full and KO pH targets for every beer depending on what Troy b to achieve.

 

[kingmatt]

I brewed up another batch of this recipe about a month ago, this time with the Nelson/Riwaka/Citra hops recommended in the OP. The beer turned out great but I am really surprised at how clear it is after a couple weeks in the keg. On sight alone I'd guess it was a highly dry hopped West Coast IPA (only slightly hazy) but it definitely drinks/tastes like a NEIPA.

I don't really care about the appearance, I just found it interesting because I changed nothing from last time but the hops and my last batch was classic NEIPA hazy/murky.

 

[ChihuahuaTN]

Heavy Hitting NEIPA.... I used Kviek Opshaug yeast....the bottle is singing now! One of the best IPA's I have made !

 

[DVCNick]

In true procrastinating fashion, brew day is today. I think my sulfate is a little low at 84 and mash pH might have been a little high at a measured 5.65.. hopefully it will still turn out well.

 

[DVCNick]

Well my preboil gravity was only 1.073 and was supposed to be 88... not sure what happened. I used the same efficiency as what I got with my Hopslam clone, a similarly big beer, and that one came out right on the money. Only thing I can think to check is the volume once it's done..

 

[Dgallo]

Well my preboil gravity was only 1.073 and was supposed to be 88... not sure what happened. I used the same efficiency as what I got with my Hopslam clone, a similarly big beer, and that one came out right on the money. Only thing I can think to check is the volume once it's done..

Mash volume could have been an issue and higher ph could have effected optimum conversion. What did you expect you efficiency to be?

 

[DVCNick]

The hopslam was 20.25lb of grain and I pulled 72.4%. This one I dialed back the pilsner .5lb based on an expected efficiency of 71%. So 23.25lb here... I thought it might drop a point or two on efficiency but the calculator here is showing 62.7%.
OG is still TBD, the only other thing I can think of is that the calculator I'm using was assuming the dextrose was included in preboil in one but not the other, but, I really don't think so.

 

[Dgallo]

The hopslam was 20.25lb of grain and I pulled 72.4%. This one I dialed back the pilsner .5lb based on an expected efficiency of 71%. So 23.25lb here... I thought it might drop a point or two on efficiency but the calculator here is showing 62.7%.
OG is still TBD, the only other thing I can think of is that the calculator I'm using was assuming the dextrose was included in preboil in one but not the other, but, I really don't think so.

It’s my experience they do take the dextrose account in the preboils. I also get right around 65% efficiency when I max out my grainbill especiall when it’s high in wheat/oats

 

[DVCNick]

Ok so, after further review, the extract efficiency in both beers did not include the dextrose; it was calculated using the grains only.
Also my volume was a little high. The marks are worn off my kettle around the water line and I really need to get a dipstick.
Accounting for the extra volume that was actually there, it brings my extract efficiency number up to about 67%. Would it have even been that good with the right volume, not sure, probably not quite. Still not as good as my batch of Hopslam and I don't know why. Maybe the malted oats? Do they need to be crushed? I wouldn't have thought so. I put them through the mill but they looked pretty narrow to me and not sure the mill would have done much to them at current setting.

OG is about 1.088. So likely I'll have a double instead of a triple.
Hopefully can still be a tasty beer. Once it finishes cooling down, going to oxygenate the crap out of it and pitch slurry from almost 2.5L of starter.

 

[DVCNick]

It’s my experience they do take the dextrose account in the preboils. I also get right around 65% efficiency when I max out my grainbill especiall when it’s high in wheat/oats

Hopslam doesn't have the wheat/oats so maybe that is the difference.

I'll run some more numbers but guessing it would be hard to get enough grain in my mashtun at this efficiency level to get to 1.097 OG... probably would have to up the dextrose, if that is a decent option.

 

[Dgallo]

Hopslam doesn't have the wheat/oats so maybe that is the difference.

I'll run some more numbers but guessing it would be hard to get enough grain in my mashtun at this efficiency level to get to 1.097 OG... probably would have to up the dextrose, if that is a decent option.

Possible but yes malted oats need to be crushed

 

[stickyfinger]

Oat malt needs a pretty narrow mill gap to get crushed effectively I think. I use about 30 mil, but I condition my malt first.

The hopslam was 20.25lb of grain and I pulled 72.4%. This one I dialed back the pilsner .5lb based on an expected efficiency of 71%. So 23.25lb here... I thought it might drop a point or two on efficiency but the calculator here is showing 62.7%.
OG is still TBD, the only other thing I can think of is that the calculator I'm using was assuming the dextrose was included in preboil in one but not the other, but, I really don't think so.