New Control Box Build - Need assistance

Yakima 728
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RufusBrewer said:
E-stop you have some choices.

If I read your schematic correctly, you can put a NC mushroom punch button in series with series with your key switch. Both need to be closed for the system to operate. Slap the mushroom button to open the path and it stays open until you twist and pull it closed again.

IMHO. This is a better design than the fuse + resistors short to ground and trip the GFI design. It cost less and is more simple and more reliable.

I hesitate to mention the next choice, but what the neck.

A while back I posted an alternative to the E-stop. It's main advantage for you is you can put multiple E-stop buttons around your brewery. It is a bit involved, and requires more parts and stuff.

If you only want only a single slap and shut down button the first choice is cheap, reliable and a properly designed circus.
Click to expand...
This is what I did. the emegency stop is just a quick off switch that kills the power to my 24v power supply which powers all my relay coils as well as the power to the pids and such.
 
augiedoggy said:
Valid points but I offer an alternative view,

I always set my boil pid to 208 degrees and set my alarm and walk away to do other work. That way I dont have to worry about a boil over and it being unattended... Then, when I'm ready to monitor it I hit the manual button and set it at 75-80% for a vigorous boil.. pids have this advantage plus at $26-30 for the mypin pid your still further ahead than a ssvr and potentiometer with a digital temp readout...
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly, and initially I am only going to have one RTD and Element running in my BK, which will be used to get my mash water and HLT at the proper levels. I am going to trust my Igloo coolers to hold the temps for me initially, but will be installing RTDs in each eventually.
 
I think I finally settled on a layout for the front of the panel.

15%2B-%2B1


Waiting for my conduit punches to arrive from ebay...bought 3 for 60 bucks! Hopefully I'll be cutting holes this weekend.
 
lzrdkng14 said:
I think I finally settled on a layout for the front of the panel.

15%2B-%2B1


Waiting for my conduit punches to arrive from ebay...bought 3 for 60 bucks! Hopefully I'll be cutting holes this weekend.
Click to expand...

The $16 dual pack step bits sold at harbor freight work well too. I even use them to cut holes in all my kettles and keggle...
 
augiedoggy said:
The $16 dual pack step bits sold at harbor freight work well too. I even use them to cut holes in all my kettles and keggle...
Click to expand...

Well, I bought that too... but just started thinking the punches would be so much easier and would eliminate any bad cuts. I might sell them when I'm done with them. Probably going to take the HF step bit pack back and get the tap-dye set and a single smaller step bit.

For the PIDS and Volt/amp meter. Was going to use a Drexel and cutting disc to make the square holes.
 
lzrdkng14 said:
Waiting for my conduit punches to arrive from ebay...bought 3 for 60 bucks! Hopefully I'll be cutting holes this weekend.
Click to expand...

Hopefully you get the right size punches if they are conduit punches and not chassis punches. I hear they measure differently (true size vs. NPT size).

EDIT: I was thinking of the heating element holes which are often confused. A 1/2" conduit punch will punch a 22mm hole.
 
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speaking of 1-1/4 holes.... for the heater element, Kal's guide says to use a 2-1/4 hole saw for the hole where the large 1" nut goes. But, it looks like there is some extra space around the nut for a smaller hole.

IMG_0780.jpg


IMG_1390.jpg


I was thinking of just using a 2-1/8 hole saw instead. Partially because HD carries the milwaukee hole saw in that size. For some reason, they skip the 2-1/4 one... very weird.

What do you guys think?
 
SilverZero said:
Hopefully you get the right size punches if they are conduit punches and not chassis punches. I hear they measure differently (true size vs. NPT size).

EDIT: I was thinking of the heating element holes which are often confused. A 1/2" conduit punch will punch a 22mm hole.
Click to expand...

Well the first punch arrived and it is the wrong size (9/16)... I messed up and using Kals guide ordered a punch for a 1/4 npt rtd. I've got the 1/2 rtd and also need it for the ball valve on my BK. Luckily, I only paid 27 for it and its basically NIB. does not appear to have been used.

So.... need to either find a 13/16 punch or roll the dice with a step bit. I saw this qmax punch is it any good?

The other two punches should arrive Sat or Mon so hopefully those are the right ones.
 
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Got the 25a 240v plugs that auggie uses. Love these things and they were super cheap....

But, I planned on using these to feed power from the control panel to the heater elements. The jack side has male connectors, which is not safe. Especially if I'm planning on leaving the HLT element empty for a little while (which I am)....

But, I really like the idea of having these on the element side in the 3/4" hole of the red dot box like this
20150709_195048.jpg


I'm going to try and grind the threads out of the box to see if the jack will slide through from the inside. Now I just need to find some cheap connectors for the control panel side...
 
lzrdkng14 said:
speaking of 1-1/4 holes.... for the heater element, Kal's guide says to use a 2-1/4 hole saw for the hole where the large 1" nut goes. But, it looks like there is some extra space around the nut for a smaller hole.

IMG_0780.jpg


IMG_1390.jpg


I was thinking of just using a 2-1/8 hole saw instead. Partially because HD carries the milwaukee hole saw in that size. For some reason, they skip the 2-1/4 one... very weird.

What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

Anything large enough to clear the hex nut on the element itself is fine.
 
lzrdkng14 said:
Well the first punch arrived and it is the wrong size (9/16)... I messed up and using Kals guide ordered a punch for a 1/4 npt rtd. I've got the 1/2 rtd and also need it for the ball valve on my BK. Luckily, I only paid 27 for it and its basically NIB. does not appear to have been used.

So.... need to either find a 13/16 punch or roll the dice with a step bit. I saw this qmax punch is it any good?

The other two punches should arrive Sat or Mon so hopefully those are the right ones.
Click to expand...

I've done all of my holes with a Harbor Freight step bit and a stone grinding bit on a drill or Dremel. It's not brain surgery, you just need to make a hole. If it's too small, take time and grind it out slowly. If it's too big, find a good silicone gasket. :)
 
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You can reverse them. Theres a brass jump ring you can remove. It's fiddly but dooable.


lzrdkng14 said:
Got the 25a 240v plugs that auggie uses. Love these things and they were super cheap....

But, I planned on using these to feed power from the control panel to the heater elements. The jack side has male connectors, which is not safe. Especially if I'm planning on leaving the HLT element empty for a little while (which I am)....

But, I really like the idea of having these on the element side in the 3/4" hole of the red dot box like this
20150709_195048.jpg


I'm going to try and grind the threads out of the box to see if the jack will slide through from the inside. Now I just need to find some cheap connectors for the control panel side...
Click to expand...

1436497179143-1102219443.jpg


1436497277185-772889238.jpg
 
I decided to merge two of Kal's wiring diagrams to make sure I had everything right in my head...
power%2Binterlock.jpg


This look right to you guys? I still need to add the other wiring to the elements and pumps....
 
lzrdkng14 said:
I decided to merge two of Kal's wiring diagrams to make sure I had everything right in my head...
power%2Binterlock.jpg


This look right to you guys? I still need to add the other wiring to the elements and pumps....
Click to expand...

Is the upper left switch a three position (on-off-on) selector switch?

Brew on :mug:
 
KiwiRob said:
You can reverse them. Theres a brass jump ring you can remove. It's fiddly but dooable.
Click to expand...

man, what did you use to get those rings out? it looks like your connectors have slots, mine don't. having a really difficult time getting any where close to moving these rings :( about to give up and just use them on the element side.
 
lzrdkng14 said:
man, what did you use to get those rings out? it looks like your connectors have slots, mine don't. having a really difficult time getting any where close to moving these rings :( about to give up and just use them on the element side.
Click to expand...


I used a flathead screw driver to pop them out. Mine do have slots on the back.
 
With the change to nema outlets for the elements, I'm out of space on the bottom of my panel...

I'm also using nemas for the pumps. So with a 12x12x6 (which is actually more like 11.5x11.5x5.5) there is not much room. I probably should have just sprung the extra loot for a bigger box, but what's done is done.

So my options are pretty much putting some of the outlets on either (or both) sides. I'm thinking the power inlet will go on the right side, for a couple reasons:
1. The spa panel will be to the right of the control panel and will be easy to wire.
2. There will be less plugging/unplugging of the main wire so it won't be getting pulled as much.
3. It's the biggest hole and takes up the most space.

Any thoughts here? I think I can fit both elements and pumps on the bottom and still have space for the 3 XLR sensor inputs.

Thanks
 
I just cut the 2-1/4" hole in the double gang heating element box. I've gotta say, I was expecting it to be much more difficult than it was. The Milwaukee ice hole saw really made short work of it. I thought about trying to use a drill press too, definitely didn't need that!

Also, I've been working on the holes in the control panel. The round ones were easy, especially with the Greenlee conduit punch (which I'm now selling HERE). But the square holes were a bit more difficult. I started with the volt/amp meter and used my Dremel with some HF carbide cutting discs. That was a nightmare, made a royal mess of it, but somehow got it done after fighting with it for a couple hours. So, I decided to pick up the dremel ez lock set and it was night and day. Cut the 4 1/16 din holes in less than an hour! And they are much cleaner... Good stuff !!!
 
I belive they make boxes that you can mount on the outside of the box so the socket does not take up space on the inside of the box. May not be the most elegent of solutions, but it is better than buying and building a new box.
 
RufusBrewer said:
I belive they make boxes that you can mount on the outside of the box so the socket does not take up space on the inside of the box. May not be the most elegent of solutions, but it is better than buying and building a new box.
Click to expand...

Or you could even run a short length of conduit to a separate junction box with the receptacles housed in it. It doesn't necessarily have to be mounted to the main control box.

I think you're looking good! Not bad for a 12" box. I almost did the same but got a deal on a 16" so I went for it. I assume you only have the timer connected to the alarm. Or is everything just always on and triggering the alarm when a temp is reached?
 
One iteration of a design I had on the drawing board was a box with the high voltage - high current inputs and outputs plus the relays inside. It was connected to the control box by a control cable. Because it is control signals, if can be 20-22 gauge multi conductor cable, easy to build.

You can now put the power box in a location convenient for distributing power and the control box convenient for pushing buttons, throwing switcjes and looking at displays.

Depending on your set up and layout this might be worth considering.
 
SilverZero said:
Or you could even run a short length of conduit to a separate junction box with the receptacles housed in it. It doesn't necessarily have to be mounted to the main control box.

I think you're looking good! Not bad for a 12" box. I almost did the same but got a deal on a 16" so I went for it. I assume you only have the timer connected to the alarm. Or is everything just always on and triggering the alarm when a temp is reached?
Click to expand...

I have not done any wiring for the alarm yet. I had planned on wiring the timer and all 3 pids to the alarm (and the reset sw).
 
OK in the home stretch here guys, hoping to have this thing done tonight....

Just need some help with the PIDs and Timer. Here is a rough diagram, am I on the right track? I have not done anything with the timer yet...(just power)

pid%2Band%2Btimer%2Bwiring.bmp
 
What is that red circle you have drawn? I assume it is a relay coil or your buzzer, but it isn't labeled. Make sure if you are fusing or using a circuit breaker for your PID's (not a bad idea) that you account for the extra current required for the relay coil/buzzer/mystery red circle. Otherwise, as long as you are using all TD4s, it looks good. The SSR is wired oppositely for the TA4 - at least that it was Google is telling me.
 
lzrdkng14 said:
Auggie? Could use your help on this...
Click to expand...

I used 2 3 position selector switches (on-off-on) for my alarms... the reason for this is you dont want to have to go and manually disable the alarms for each pid or timer each time... especially if you keep those values for each alarm the same like I usually do..
Hope that makes sense?
 
augiedoggy said:
I used 2 3 position selector switches (on-off-on) for my alarms... the reason for this is you dont want to have to go and manually disable the alarms for each pid or timer each time... especially if you keep those values for each alarm the same like I usually do..
Hope that makes sense?
Click to expand...

I was hoping the alarm reset sw would do that for me. It would reset all alarms at the same time since they would all be wired together...
 
huntb said:
What is that red circle you have drawn? I assume it is a relay coil or your buzzer, but it isn't labeled. Make sure if you are fusing or using a circuit breaker for your PID's (not a bad idea) that you account for the extra current required for the relay coil/buzzer/mystery red circle. Otherwise, as long as you are using all TD4s, it looks good. The SSR is wired oppositely for the TA4 - at least that it was Google is telling me.
Click to expand...

Yes, the red circle is the alarm buzzer. The NO switch to the right is one side of the reset switch. The other side is an NC that I would use to reset the timer.

The flaw here is that the switch will reset everything so I have to see how that is going to work...
 
augiedoggy said:
Unless I missed it there is no alarm rest lead on the mypin pids? there is on the timer though...
Click to expand...

oh yeah, I had it backwards. The NC switch would be for the TD4's and it would open, breaking the alarm when I hit the switch. The NO switch would trigger an alarm reset on the timer. I can see now that this might be problematic, I am probably going to have to rethink this a bit.
 
lzrdkng14 said:
oh yeah, I had it backwards. The NC switch would be for the TD4's and it would open, breaking the alarm when I hit the switch. The NO switch would trigger an alarm reset on the timer. I can see now that this might be problematic, I am probably going to have to rethink this a bit.
Click to expand...
the two switchs I use work well... I can use a combination of two devices that are hot for the alarm too so I just put the two devices I would never need alarms at the same point in time for on each switch...
 
augiedoggy said:
the two switchs I use work well... I can use a combination of two devices that are hot for the alarm too so I just put the two devices I would never need alarms at the same point in time for on each switch...
Click to expand...

my timer is the B3S - http://sestos-hk.com/english/download/B3S-en.pdf

it appears it has a reset switch on the face, so I might be ok just using that... although, I just looked at this: http://sestos-hk.com/english/download/B2e-en.pdf and it looks the same.

I think I am just going to hook power to the timer and see how it works. I don't really have the room to add any extra switches, unless I move the grounding post...
 
lzrdkng14 said:
my timer is the B3S - http://sestos-hk.com/english/download/B3S-en.pdf

it appears it has a reset switch on the face, so I might be ok just using that... although, I just looked at this: http://sestos-hk.com/english/download/B2e-en.pdf and it looks the same.

I think I am just going to hook power to the timer and see how it works. I don't really have the room to add any extra switches, unless I move the grounding post...
Click to expand...
you could get a single 5 position switch but yeah I see your point.
 
Another thought...
Could I just ground the front panel using one of the screws for the steel handles? Seems to me I could, then I'm just taking the post out and putting a 3 pos switch for timer reset and pause with the timer alarm wired in as well. Just thinking out loud.
 

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