New Cider Questions

[Schmitz]

I've brewed ales for a couple years and ran through the cider forum for a while, but had some questions on some possible hangups I have before I begin fermenting tomorrow.

I'm using a couple varieties of white/sparking wine yeast and a generic ale yeast in glass carboys, and since its freshly (as of tomorrow) squeezed cider, ill be dropping in camden tablets before I pitch the yeast a day later.

- Pectic Enzymes, when should I add this? When I pitch the yeast? Or after primary fermentation, that is, add it in the secondary.

- Yeast Energizer, add this when I pitch the yeast?

Do I need to sterilize these two before adding? ^^

- Sugar. I see a lot of information refer to sugar, TABLE SUGAR? With ales, thinking of table sugar always scared the carp out of me. But, I've used it.
Or I can use honey. But either way the purpose of either of these since both fermentable are just to bring up the ABV? When should I add this if I decide? Sterilze and add when I pitch yeast?

- Finally, sparkling/carbonated cider. I'm after this. I've read lactose to be added for sparkling cider, I've also read good ole corn sugar does the trick when rdy to bottle. Either/ or?

Thanks everyone, appreciate any quick help.

 

[sailman]

Pectic Enzymes, I use this in the secondary.

Yeast Energizer, Yes before you pitch the yeast and shake the crap out of it to mix it.

"Do I need to sterilize these two before adding?" I do and have not had a promlem.

Sugar or honey will be fine to bring up the ABV but what I do is to use apple juice concentrate, each can brings up the OG by .02 points.

Lactose will only add to the sweetness because it will not ferment , corn sugar will be fine.
Hope this helps.

 

[Caplan]

Schmitz,
Pectic enzymes are more effective if you add them before fermentation for crystal clear results - but don't worry about it with this cider.

Do I need to sterilize these two before adding? ^^

No idea what this line refers to.... Please explain!

 

[Schmitz]

Thanks both of you!

I was referring to sterilizing the pectic enzyme and yeast energizer through boiling before adding.

 

[Schmitz]

I could use some more added advice..

The Morning after...

I went with the 18gallon route between 4 carboys.

My first problem was keeping the stoppers from not popping out of the carboy. Never had this problem with ales, but with the amount of free flowing cider running outside, it was getting everywhere, so i realized even the slightest moisture on a stopper can spell bad mojo. I'm worried.

Then I plopped in my cambden tablets (1 per gallon).. then I realized I should have dissolved and stirred them in water before adding and not just drop the tablets directly into the carboys (er so it said on the bottle). So as the bright beacon of questionable intelligence I am, after 10mins of letting the camben tablets rest, I dropped a long whisk into each carboy and stirred up the mucky bottom. That just made me nervous.

The stoppers appeared fairly snug as I left them, but before I did leave, the water I had placed in each airlock and been largely sucked back down inside the airlock and back into the carboy. That concerns me.

Finally, the camben tablets wont have 12 or 24hrs before the yeast is added, but 48hrs until yeast is added. I hope this is not a problem?

Im using Red Star wine yeast and another white wine/sparkling yeast from ECKrauss, as well as a english ale yeast (out of curiosity on the 4th).

Yeast Energizer, I have this and is it THAT important? I know to add it before the yeast itself..but how soon before? 10min? 2hrs?

At this pointI think my biggest question is fermentation temperature. Ales I've let sit at about 70F. The yeast on the wine packets mentions nothing about temperature. So I'm assuming 55 to 60F? And the ale yeast is best to keep in its asking range regardless of 65 to 75F I'd assume.

Conditioning is not a large concern atm, but I'm assuming cool? conditioning.. but how cool.. 60F? 50F?

Thanks guys, sorry for so many questions, I'm a bit of a nervous wreck right now.

 

[david_42]

48 hours after the campden is fine.
Airlock sucking isn't a big problem with the campden active.
Yeast energizer isn't as important for ciders as meads, but add it at the same time as the yeast.
60F is good for wine yeasts and conditioning.
Table sugar (AKA sucrose, beet sugar, dehydrated cane juice LoL) gives a cidery flavor to your cider. Not a problem, although I don't like high ABV ciders, the apple gets lost.

RAHAHB, already!

 

[Caplan]

David_42 has answered the questions in your last post. You don't need to sterilize the yeast nutrient or peptic enzyme - just use them straight from the container (and store the rest well sealed, dry, cool and out of sunlight)

 

[Mikey]

The stoppers appeared fairly snug as I left them, but before I did leave, the water I had placed in each airlock and been largely sucked back down inside the airlock and back into the carboy. That concerns me.

That's a classic overfilled airlock problem. Some people make the mistake of filling them to the little line in the plastic.

What I do is gently blow backwards through the airlock before putting it on the carboy to clear the overfill. That way any excess won't go into my cider or beer if there's a pressure reversal.

 

[Schmitz]

Update: Observations and Questions

Thanks again guys btw. That info was useful.

I didn't bother with the energizer somewhere about the 40th hour of pitching 3 different yeasts in 4 carboys they all started to ferment. Using dry yeasts w/ no starter, just rehydrated. The Lalvin EC-1118 (from eckraus) created a really nice pillowy yeast head (4inches) while the Red Star (in 2 other carboys) created a bubbly head that looked like cinnamon on top. The ale yeast head looked like a product inbetween the two.

Just before pitching I added pectic enzyme out of curiosity to 1 carboy. 24hrs later, it was clear! 24hrs after that, it was not. It returned to its former glory and was hazy like the other 3. Judging from what I've read above it was expected. I'll re add pectic enzyme in secondary.

Bubbling isnt as fierce (that is as fast) as it is when making ale. It appears to have its it peak (4 days in) and about 1 bubble every 15seconds in each (including the ale yeast) carboy, as opposed to 1 every 2 seconds in my makings of ale (using dry yeast) at peak. Is this normal?

I'd like to up the ABV in one. I was going to add sugar after the bubbling has subsided. Should I add sugar in the later stages of primary? Or just add when switching to secondary?

Citric Acid. Is there a tell tale sign when this is needed? I'ved read if the cider is slow and pours stringy. However I don't have a ph tester. And did not know at which point if at all this was to be added.

I'm still reading the cider forum for lots of good topics.

Thanks again guys.