New BYO Aussi brewing article

[The Pol]

Hi everybody - I've been lurking for a while and learning lots. I've made a few extract batches that turned out pretty well. Now after reading the BYO article, I'm excited to give it a shot. I have a question -

If I'm just planning to let the wort chill overnight would I be better off chilling in my fermenter (6.5 gallon ale pail) or a 5 gallon water jug? Would a coleman collapsing water container work - or are the soft-sides to weak for the hot temps?

A soft sided container would probably fail... HDPE will hold up, most plastics will not.

You MAY be able to use the bucket, but I have heard someone say that thiers almost completely collapsed on itself (sides too rigid).

I say try it, who knows? That is where I am coming from, I am trying it, I will never know til I do!

 

[PoMo]

Where did you get that machine that is in the picture on the right?

The fella standing next to it owns it and built it. It's a PID controlled HERMS.

Makes sense and should work out OK.

I was just reading up on BPA leaching from HDPE at high temp and it seems that really HDPE, thought slightly worse that PET when it comes to leaching is really quite good.

I don't want to drag your thread off-topic though, just wanted to show that HDPE is a good choice of material for this, especially since it can contract and expand (something a cornie keg would not do)

"Food grade" HDPE uses citric acid as a plasticiser, so all it should leach is citric acid. Whether a particular container is "food grade" we have been unable to ascertain, although most of the cubes circulating in the IBUs started life as commercial wort containers and were ordered as food containing vessels. So I assume anything you see that is HDPE and is sold a as a drinking water vessel should be perfect.

 

[conpewter]

The fella standing next to it owns it and built it. It's a PID controlled HERMS.



"Food grade" HDPE uses citric acid as a plasticiser, so all it should leach is citric acid. Whether a particular container is "food grade" we have been unable to ascertain, although most of the cubes circulating in the IBUs started life as commercial wort containers and were ordered as food containing vessels. So I assume anything you see that is HDPE and is sold a as a drinking water vessel should be perfect.

That's great to know! I have put hot wort into a brew-bucket before (but I used an immersion chiller to cool it). I'm glad to know it is a safe plastic.

 

[PoMo]

While I think of it, you'll know if your container is leaching plasticisers. For this to happen, it will have to "go plastic" or deform and not resume its normal shape when cooled, so you can test your vessels with boiling water if you're unsure.

We spent lots of time trying to find fault in the method over at AHB, which called out our plastic experts, our microbiologists, our devil's advocates and our finest googling skills. The beers speak for themselves. Several state and national prize winners were no-chilled. Can't recall the details, but there may have been a few best in class prizes for BIABs as well.

As for aroma deficiencies, some experience it, some don't. Personally, all of my AG beers have been no-chilled and they've all come out with plenty of aroma. I generally only do two hop additions, 60 mins and flameout, and I'm happy with that hopping regime coupled with no-chill. Works a treat.

 

[conpewter]

Plastic does not need to deform or even be hot to leach, but as mentioned the HDPE he is using is very safe for this application.

 

[Daddymem]

Anyone ever seen the "hop socks" they use in the Aussie BIAB directions?

 

[The Pol]

My HDPE container arrived today... looks like this coming week my experiment will begin.

 

[MacBruver]

Anyone ever seen the "hop socks" they use in the Aussie BIAB directions?

Yeah, it's just a muslin grain bag. Available at your LHBS.

 

[Daddymem]

Yeah, it's just a muslin grain bag. Available at your LHBS.

From what I've read and seen it looks like it is an actual product called "the hop sock". I have a hop bag and it doesn't look like that. There is some sort of ring that holds it open allowing it to be suspended open in the brew.

 

[Danek]

From what I've read and seen it looks like it is an actual product called "the hop sock". I have a hop bag and it doesn't look like that. There is some sort of ring that holds it open allowing it to be suspended open in the brew.

I have one that I made myself from stuff at the hardware store. Someone on here (I forget who - sorry!) posted pictures of theirs a year or two ago, and I copied the design from them. It works well.

 

[FlyGuy]

I have one that I made myself from stuff at the hardware store. Someone on here (I forget who - sorry!) posted pictures of theirs a year or two ago, and I copied the design from them. It works well.

Do you mean like this:
Hop Bag - Home Brewing Wiki

 

[Danek]

Do you mean like this:
Hop Bag - Home Brewing Wiki

Yes, that's exactly the one I was talking about.

 

[Brewme]

The only problem I see when using the hop sack verses a large open nylon bag is that it would be difficult to stir during the mash with that narrow opening.

 

[Daddymem]

Do you mean like this:
Hop Bag - Home Brewing Wiki

That would do! Danke.

 

[rico567]

<snip>

And also what I've been saying since late last year that the Aussie homebrewers are ahead of us in a lot of ways thanks to prohibition in the states kinda slowing stuff down..

<snip>

Whaaa???

In home artisanal brewing? I completely disagree. There's been no "prohibition" in the U.S. since 1933, in the first place. It's been Local Option, which you can look up and find out the difference. Even states that "ban" homebrewing have absolutely no way to enforce it because the ingredients are so ubiquitous..... and the truth is they probably only encourage it. Even if you're running a still at home, as long as it's only for your own use, don't kid yourself that anybody cares.

For an example, let's look back at the "Bad Old Days" of Prohibition and my maternal grandfather. He was German enough, but no one remembers him taking a drink -other than water- before the 18th Amendment. Then he said "No ***damn government is going to tell me what I can or can't drink." And from that day on he brewed away (and went into all kinds of wine making, including currants elderberries, etc.) until Repeal. He then put all his equipment on the shelf (I still use his 1930's era bench capper) and never brewed another drop.
As far as living in some state that still has an effective ban, like UT, OK, AL, etc.....order your stuff off the Internet and brew away. If it bugs you that much- MOVE.

 

[Daddymem]

Hopsock Large (500 micron) - Product Details - CraftBrewer

There's the hopsock they used in the BIAB article.

 

[The Pol]

Got my #11 stopper coming for my HDPE fermentor...

I plan to use the supplied cap when doing the "no chill", then placing the stopper in place of the cap after pitching on day #2.

Edit: #11.5 drilled stopper, SWMBO did not measure the orifice correctly.

 

[dazed]

The only problem I see when using the hop sack verses a large open nylon bag is that it would be difficult to stir during the mash with that narrow opening.

I agree Exactly...unless they are going to use it for hops??

Your gonna need something you can fold over the side of your pot (secure however fit) and thats gets it deep enough to cover all the grain ....and be able to stir it up.
The Preffered Material is Ivory/White Sheer Voile
I just Picked up some Hobby Lobby. It's on a roll 110 inches wide by however long you want it. $4.89 Per yard Length (by 110").

Check Out this link Bag For Biab - AussieHomeBrewer.com

 

[Daddymem]

I'm looking at the hopsack for the boil as an improvement over the mesh bag for hops. They don't use the hopsack as the bag in the BIAB method.

 

[carnevoodoo]

Whaaa???

In home artisanal brewing? I completely disagree. There's been no "prohibition" in the U.S. since 1933, in the first place. It's been Local Option, which you can look up and find out the difference. Even states that "ban" homebrewing have absolutely no way to enforce it because the ingredients are so ubiquitous..... and the truth is they probably only encourage it. Even if you're running a still at home, as long as it's only for your own use, don't kid yourself that anybody cares.

For an example, let's look back at the "Bad Old Days" of Prohibition and my maternal grandfather. He was German enough, but no one remembers him taking a drink -other than water- before the 18th Amendment. Then he said "No ***damn government is going to tell me what I can or can't drink." And from that day on he brewed away (and went into all kinds of wine making, including currants elderberries, etc.) until Repeal. He then put all his equipment on the shelf (I still use his 1930's era bench capper) and never brewed another drop.
As far as living in some state that still has an effective ban, like UT, OK, AL, etc.....order your stuff off the Internet and brew away. If it bugs you that much- MOVE.

I'm going to agree with this guy. We have more resources, more availability of quality ingredients, more knowledge at a craft brew level (which feeds the homebrew community), and really, the sheer numbers of people brewing in the States are likely to contribute heavily as well.

Sure, BIAB might be an interesting technique and I am glad it works for plenty of people, but to assume that Australia is ahead of the states in terms of brewing is just kind of mesmerizing.

 

[The Pol]

Three latest additions to my brewing arsenal:

Netbook
ProMash
HDPE "no chill" fermentor

]

 

[ZooBrew]

I was thinking about getting one of those mini-laptops.

 

[The Pol]

I was thinking about getting one of those mini-laptops.

It is amazing... I travel for a living

2.2 pounds, fast, 6.5 hour battery life... fits into a leather case that looks like a day planner

The Acer Aspire One is one of the best out there. There are some very cheap, low powered netbooks out there. This thing rocks, I love SWMBO for getting it for me

 

[PoMo]

Sure, BIAB might be an interesting technique and I am glad it works for plenty of people, but to assume that Australia is ahead of the states in terms of brewing is just kind of mesmerizing.

Well, apart from the mashing ingredients and the shear number of brewers, I'd say we're catching up We get a decent range of malts from Britain and Germany, and we have some decent local maltsters as well. We get pelletised hops from everywhere that grows hops. Personally, I'm a fan of traditional UK and German hops as well as some of the new varieties being developed in NZ. Those Motueka and Nelson Sauvin hops are bloody brilliant! There is also a bit of a fascination with US C-hops and Amarillo, but I'm not that big a fan any more. Naturally we have a pretty good selection of Wyest, WhiteLabs, Danstar, Fermentis, etc yeasts. Being on the bottom of the world tho, we pay a little more than you guys because of transport costs. Not a large enough population down here to support a local yeast industry, tho that might change over time.

All Grain brewing at home has been done here for years but there has only relatively recently been an explosion in numbers, thanks mostly to watching what you guys do via the interweb. BIAB and no-chill are just examples of good ole Aussie ingenuity. Adapting methods to suit our unique conditions. I brew with a more traditional three-vessel system myself, but I no-chill.

Anyway, although our numbers are smaller, we're not "behind" the US in brewing quality beers, we just don't have the same critical mass of brewers. Probably across the country, we'd have as many brewers as you guys have on say the East Coast, and we're just as good

Brew on my American Brothers!

 

[The Pol]

I cant wait to test my new "no chill" fermentor! Maybe in a week or so when my #11.5 stopper arrives!

It took over a week to get the fermentor from Lima, OH to Indianapolis, then I measured the opening and had to order a stopper to fit the orifice, so now I wait on that from Rochester, NY.

Now all I need is a couple days off so that I actually have the TIME to brew something using this method, then in 4 weeks I will have some tangible results.

 

[Daddymem]

Would it be appropriate to post my proposed BIAB SMaSH recipe and brew day plan up here for comments/suggestions?

 

[The Pol]

It may be more "appropriate" in the recipe section, though I personally have no objections. I am not that anal.

 

[Daddymem]

I wasn't sure, since it really isn't about the recipe, it's about the process BIAB and I didn't want to step on any toes. The aussie directions are for a schwarzbier and in metric units so things could get lost in translation. This would be my first AG attempt after 9 or so successful extract batches.

Here goes...

Notty Willam's Amber Ale (name for now)

10 pounds 2-row , toast 2 pounds 15 mins at 350F before milling
1 pound Carapils
152F for the 90 Minutes
Hops:
1 oz Willamette for 60 min
0.5 oz Willamette for 20 minutes
0.5 oz Willametter for 5 minutes

Nottingham dry yeast

This is my brew day plan:
1. Put wok grate in bottom of pot
2. Pot 1 gallon water, turn burner on
3. Pot 4 more gallons of water
4. Attach grain bag in the pot
5. Begin filling grains, dropping from a reasonable height, and stirring vigorously to break up any dry spots
6. Add additional water by the gallon (keeping track, 5 gallons so far) until an inch or so from the top of the kettle. My pot is 7.5 gallons. Periodically add small amount of water (still keeping track) throughout the 90 minute mash
7. Raise temperature to 152F-start mash time-flame out
8. Put lid on kettle propped open with a spoon
9. For first 20 minutes agitate and check temperature every 5 minutes
10. Turn on burner when temperature drops to 150F (around 40 minute mark potentially)
11. Bring to 155F. Flameout for remaining time
12. At 90 minutes, flame on full
13. Raise bag above kettle water, give a little twirl and squeeze
14. Place bag into bucket after it stops dripping
15. Suspend bag over bucket to drain out squeeze at 10 minutes drain liquid back to kettle
16. Determine volume of boil and specific gravity (use a ruler for depth and convert with volume per inch and assume 95%) Adjust gravity for temperature!
17. Bring to a boil and start 90 minutes
18. HOPS
First hops @ 30 minutes
Second hops @ 70 minutes
Irish Moss @ 80 minutes
Third hops @ 85 minutes


Hopefully all the keeping track of water won't be a problem anymore as I've got a 60 QT kettle coming.
My grains are coming milled can I toast milled grains and get the color still or would that ruin them?
Would 7 gallons of water be my target total volume to get me down to 5 gallons of wort?
Salt is included in the example BIAB recipe which is a schwarzbier, I don't think this is needed in my recipe, right?
What is the minimum acceptable temperature I can drop to during the 90 minute mash?
How would you calculate efficiency in BIAB?

 

[dazed]

8. Put lid on kettle propped open with a spoon

Whats the spoon for? Or should I ask ...what is the Prop for?

More heat loss that way.

 

[The Pol]

Whats the spoon for? Or should I ask ...what is the Prop for?

More heat loss that way.

I agree, I am confused grasshoppa....