new brewer: thinking of replacing primary with better bottle

[mhochman]

The kit I purchased included a plastic bucket fermenter and no secondary. As someone who is interested in all aspects of the brewing process, it's bothering me that the only part of fermentation I get to see is activity in the airlock (which ends pretty quickly). I've only made two batches so far (and have tasted none of them yet!)

I've been reading a lot about Better Bottles and I think I'd like to purchase one. I especially like the idea of the racking kit, and not having to deal with siphons, etc. I do have a few questions, though, that I know many of you can answer/opin.

-To accomplish my goal of "seeing" fermentation, obviously the better bottle would be my primary fermenter. Could I (if I ever needed to/wanted to) rack to the plastic bucket, which would then be used as a secondary? I know that I won't often use a secondary, following the advice of many on these boards, but there will likely come a time one I will want to for one reason or another.

-Why does it seem like most people use a bucket and then rack to a carboy/BB? I know that many people use a carboy or BB as a primary, but it seems like when someone has a plastic bucket and carboy to use, the plastic bucket is the primary. Even starter kits that I see that include secondaries label the carboy as the secondary.

-If I'm making 5 gallon batches, do I want the 5 gallon BB or the 6 gallon BB?

-It looks so easy to ferment totally within the BB and then bottle directly from it (using the racking accessories, which I know are optional). This may be a stupid question or thought, but if I start doing that right away, I feel like I'll lose (or more accurately, never develop) my siphoning skills. OK, so that's not really a question, but what do you think?

-What else do I need to know?
Thanks all.

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

First off...if you're worried about "siphon skills"...buy an autosiphon. It's one of the best investments I've made.

As for secondary/primary, don't worry about the labels the kit puts on it. ANY vessel made for fermenting can be used as either a primary or secondary. The reason people normally use glass for secondary is the extended time it will be sitting. Glass lets no air in, so if you're aging something like a barley wine, you need something that won't let air in for the long secondary fermentation. It's also nice to have as little head space as possible in your secondary.

If you're using secondary for additions such as fruit/coffee/vanilla/etc...then you won't need a long conditioning time and buckets will work fine. I use buckets in all aspects of my brewing. They're cheaper, easier to handle, and easier for additions.

Plus...if you can't see it, you won't get paranoid and think something is wrong with it.

 

[maida7]

I use better bottles and think they are the best fermenters available. Lots of people are happy with the buckets but I like to see what's going on with the ferment. I like to see the flocculation.

I would not use your bucket as a secondary. It has too much air space and is too permeable to oxygen. A 5 gallon glass carboy makes the best secondary. I would only secondary beers that you want to age for a long time and in those cases oxygen is a major concern.

Most people rack to a carboy for the secondary because the carboy is smaller and could not be used as a primary.

You want the 6 gallon to make 5 gallon batches.

I don't use the optional racking arm and stuff. I've heard it's a PITA to properly clean that stuff. I siphon the beer to rack it into a keg/ bottling bucket.

It's very easy to start a siphon with a better bottle. You get one of those orange carboy caps and a racking cane that fits tight in the larger of the two holes. Put the cap on the BB with the cane in the beer and blow into the smaller hole on the cap. The air pressure from blowing in the hole will start the siphon. I know morebeer.com sells this type of siphon and even has a video on their site to show you how it's done.

 

[BioBeing]

I watched my first few beer primary in a glass carboy. Sure it is cool, but he novelty does wear off. Plus, I decided I needed more fermentors, and ale pails were the cheapest, easiest option.

 

[flamewing]

If you're getting the Better Bottle for primary fermenting get a 6 gallon BB. You will want the extra head space for the actual fermentation so you have less blowoff than if you didn't have the space. If you are wanting to use the BB as a secondary then get the 5 gallon as previously stated you want as little head space as possible at that stage of the game.

 

[Rubberband]

I am by no means an expert on this board but I will give you my $0.02 worth. I have made a couple dozen brews since I started brewing over one year ago and I use the 5 gal. pail as a primary for all of them. It would be nice to see fermentation but I enjoy drinking the beer much more.

I purchased a second pail, 7.9 gallons, to allow more headspace for big beers. I made a scotch ale (8.5% Alch.) and it blew out blow-off tube in the 6 gallon bucket. So my advice is this with regard to the better bottle, if it to be your primary fermenter, purchase the 6 gallon bottle. If you are to use it as a secondary, 5 gallons will work. Less head space is preferred once primary fermentation is done. My experience is that most ales don't need to be put into a secondary.

I don't know about the racking function on the better bottles, I use Fermtechs autosiphons and they work pretty well. I do have 4 better bottles but they are for lagering, bulk aging big beer, fermenting apfelwein, or secondary fermentation if I want an extra clear beer. To be truthful, I will rack a batch into a secondary off of the yeast cake after a three weeks just because I don't feel like bottling, pure laziness.

Good luck with the beer, even though you may not have seen it ferment, the reward will still be great.

 

[maida7]

I watched my first few beer primary in a glass carboy. Sure it is cool, but he novelty does wear off. Plus, I decided I needed more fermentors, and ale pails were the cheapest, easiest option.

I don't think it's a novelty. I can judge when to keg just by watching the fermenter. Have done many batches without using a hydrometer. So for me watching the beer is an important part of my process. But we each have our own methods.

 

[arxix]

I have only done a few batches (6 if you include my caramel apfelwein experiment) and from what I can tell, I will be sticking with buckets for primary's. Even with all the "its good to see you beer" and all, a bucket is just flat out easier to clean out after a primary which makes the biggest mess.

Mine has a plastic valve that makes it SUPER easy to take a hydrometer reading when I think its about ready to put into a secondary. I'm not sure how people have problems with the valves, just take it off and clean it like everything else. It only takes a few more minutes and I feel its well worth it to get easy access for taking readings and for when its time to go to a secondary, you just connect your hose to that and let gravity take over. No need to get a siphon going.

If you are worried about oxygen, then go to a carboy for a secondary. If you are worried about light, go to stainless steel. Just keep your health insurance up to date and your wallet handy.

Buckets are cheeper, easier to clean, can have a valve at the bottom, area available anywhere and you can mod the crap out of them.

Just my $.02.

-ArXiX

 

[maida7]

I have only done a few batches (6 if you include my caramel apfelwein experiment) and from what I can tell, I will be sticking with buckets for primary's. Even with all the "its good to see you beer" and all, a bucket is just flat out easier to clean out after a primary which makes the biggest mess.

Mine has a plastic valve that makes it SUPER easy to take a hydrometer reading when I think its about ready to put into a secondary. I'm not sure how people have problems with the valves, just take it off and clean it like everything else. It only takes a few more minutes and I feel its well worth it to get easy access for taking readings and for when its time to go to a secondary, you just connect your hose to that and let gravity take over. No need to get a siphon going.

If you are worried about oxygen, then go to a carboy for a secondary. If you are worried about light, go to stainless steel. Just keep your health insurance up to date and your wallet handy.

Buckets are cheeper, easier to clean, can have a valve at the bottom, area available anywhere and you can mod the crap out of them.

Just my $.02.

-ArXiX

Glass carboys and better bottles are super easy to clean. Fill wil oxyclean and hot water. Let sit overnight. Rinse with hot water. done! no brushing. no scrubing, no problems.

There is nothing wrong with buckets. But saying glass carboys or better bottles are hard to clean is simply untrue.

 

[nocturne1]

-It looks so easy to ferment totally within the BB and then bottle directly from it (using the racking accessories, which I know are optional). This may be a stupid question or thought, but if I start doing that right away, I feel like I'll lose (or more accurately, never develop) my siphoning skills. OK, so that's not really a question, but what do you think?

I didn't see anyone answer this part. The problem with bottling directly from the primary is that you should be mixing your priming sugar before bottling. You don't want to do this without first getting the beer out of the container. So you'd still want to autosiphon or use the racking adapter to go to a bottling bucket, mix in your priming sugar, and then bottle.

Of course, I don't yet have any brewing equipment myself, but I've been researching for a few weeks and have had some of the same exact questions.

Jay

 

[dracus]

Here is my 2cents.

Plastic doesn't last period that includes ale pales and most importantly better bottles. I'll leave the oxygen permeability discussion in the other threads.

Ale pales and the like are inexpensive. Better bottles cost exactly the same as glass carboys and the glass ones if properly handled will last forever.

I've never seen a compelling reason to invest in a better bottle which like all plastic if it gets scratched will need to be replaced.

At least with an ale pail that's $15 or so.

Sure glass is heavy that's what a milk crate and a friend are for. I brew all my primary in plastic and for secondary when fruit or aging are neccessary I use glass carboys. I'm going to add some 6.5g carboys to the list.

 

[mordantly]

the biggest reason i primary in ale pails, is bb are too expensive!

 

[Rubberband]

I didn't see anyone answer this part. The problem with bottling directly from the primary is that you should be mixing your priming sugar before bottling. You don't want to do this without first getting the beer out of the container. So you'd still want to autosiphon or use the racking adapter to go to a bottling bucket, mix in your priming sugar, and then bottle.

Of course, I don't yet have any brewing equipment myself, but I've been researching for a few weeks and have had some of the same exact questions.

Jay

You my friend are ready to brew. I totally missed that and I've probably filled over 500 bottles this past year.

 

[Rubberband]

Sure glass is heavy that's what a milk crate and a friend are for. I brew all my primary in plastic and for secondary when fruit or aging are neccessary I use glass carboys. I'm going to add some 6.5g carboys to the list.

You are risking the wrath of the forum with this one. I have seen some looooonnnggggg threads on plastic vs. glass. I will say this, my buckets are just fine and will due until I cough up enough cash for a SS conical. My main reason for avoiding glass is my 4 year old and 15 year old children. They are experts at breaking things, it's a gift.

 

[iamfoamy]

I didn't see anyone answer this part. The problem with bottling directly from the primary is that you should be mixing your priming sugar before bottling. You don't want to do this without first getting the beer out of the container. So you'd still want to autosiphon or use the racking adapter to go to a bottling bucket, mix in your priming sugar, and then bottle.

Of course, I don't yet have any brewing equipment myself, but I've been researching for a few weeks and have had some of the same exact questions.

Jay

I recently finished my first batch of homebrew, and I used a better bottle (with spigot) for fermentation, and I also bottled from it. For priming, I used Coopers carbonation drops (one per bottle). They cost about 10 cents per bottle. More expensive than corn sugar, more of a contamination risk, but it worked for me.

 

[triangulum33]

I have 2 six gallon and 2 five gallon BB. I would not buy glass carboys. Heavy and breakage. If I have to buy another $25 plastic carboy 5 years from now, well, I dont care. And as for buckets...I just being able to see whats going on.

You can buy buckets, but why are you brewing in the first place? If its for the fun of it, seems like BB are better.

 

[tom777]

To each their own... everyone will have their own preference.
For me, that is buckets and better bottles. I've never even considered going with glass. I'm just not willing to take the chance on breakage and I don't worry too much about oxygen permeability.

Just bought my 6th 6G better bottle today actually. Lately, all I use my 7.9G buckets for is for primary fermentation for the 6 gallon wine batches. Better bottles for everything else.

While I do use a blowoff tube for beer primary fermentation, it seems very few actually need it as I do mostly pretty basic stuff. If I were to brew a "big" beer, I would still use the bucket.
As far as cleaning the better bottles, it's never been a problem. To clear the ring of crud from fermentation, simply put a gallon or so of water + a little oxyclean in the BB and set it upside down in a 5qt ice cream pail partially filled with water. The stuff will come right off.

 

[triangulum33]

To clear the ring of crud from fermentation, simply put a gallon or so of water + a litte oxyclean in the BB and set it upside down in a 5qt ice cream pail partially filled with water. The stuff will come right off.

..............



x2

 

[BioBeing]

You can buy buckets, but why are you brewing in the first place? If its for the fun of it, seems like BB are better.

I brew to make beer. Stick the bucket in my fermentation chamber and forget it for 3 weeks.


[OK, so I will go sniff the airlock once in a while!]

 

[triangulum33]

I brew to make beer. Stick the bucket in my fermentation chamber and forget it for 3 weeks.


[OK, so I will go sniff the airlock once in a while!]

Brewing is like cooking for me. Its a mix of attaining the goal as well as the journey.


Sure, I could go to Burger Hut instead of grilling....oh wait, no I cant!

 

[BioBeing]

Well, yeah, But you don't need to watch the burger every second it is on the grill. Get the fire right, throw the burger on and then you can go slice the tomato.

OK, now I'm ready for a burger...

 

[sims_l22]

I just brewed a California Style Imperial Ale in a 6.5 gallon bucket and the lid is real tight i have a real time getting it off, and the lid blew off while it was fermenting. Be careful with the big brews. Invest wisely. I am also a newb.
sims_l22

 

[tom777]

that is one tasty-looking burger. Makes me hungry for a midnight snack.

 

[mhochman]

It's amazing how confusing all of this can be. As someone who likes to do things the "right" way, all of the differing opinions pile up. That said, I understand that so much of this is personal preference. I am very comfortable with the idea of keeping beer in a primary for weeks and racking straight from there. I also am intrigued with what secondaries offer. Time to experiment. I guess that's what makes this hobby so awesome...try new things, tweak this, tweak that...in the end you're still left with 5 gallons of awesome homebrew!

 

[robertvrabel]

My kit came with glass carboys (One 6gal and one 5gal). I've purchased another set of glass ones, simply for the fact that I wanted them all to be the same, and its what I was used to using.

I've read a lot on these forums, and I really haven't heard people say not to use one or the other. Seems like you should just use what you want!

I really think this goes for anything... another example is that it seems a lot of people don't do secondaries. I've done secondaries for all the brews I've done so far (Granted only a couple since I started a month ago) and continue to do so, just because I had the second carboy to do so, and its what I'm used to. I do plan to do a batch without doing so eventually, just to see if I can even taste a difference in the end result. I guess that's the fun of home brew, there is a million ways to do things, and none of them are "absolutely correct".

"-If I'm making 5 gallon batches, do I want the 5 gallon BB or the 6 gallon BB?"

You'll want 6 gallon ones for primary, 5 gallon if its used for secondary. You want the bigger one for primary because of the krausen that appears on top of your wort. That can sometimes be huge and if your using 5 gallons, it has no where to go but out the airlock and clogging it!

My first brew I was using a 6 gallon carboy and it actually clogged the airlock still. I had to change it to a blow off at 3am because it made a crazy noise and was like whistling because of the pressure being built up. Thank god it didn't blow!

 

[mhochman]

So today I purchased a 5 gallon Better Boy to use a secondary. I am respectful of all of the advice to keep in the primary, but since I'm brand new to the hobby I'd really like to master all of the skills and test the differences. Thanks for everyone's input.