New BIAGer! Hello and a quick question.

[Black Island Brewer]

Don't fear a fine crush YES you will have some flour, that's ok!

Lots use an inexpensive corona mill with success fwiw...

I just built your corona-mill-in-a-bucket today, took me less than an hour, and except for not making the cuts for the hopper long enough and breaking part of the lid (fixed with duct tape), everything worked perfectly. Putting an eyebolt in my drill to drive the screw, it rips through malt like a knife through butter! Good thing, I just bought 7 bags...
Thanks for posting the link in your sig.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I'm not sure how cheap you wish to go but if you have the time you could modify a pasta mill to use a a grain mill. I picked up a pasta mill from a craft store called Michaels for around $13 (using a 50% off coupon).

While I agree, a pasta roller can work, after playing with one for a bit, I gave it away and continued to use my corona mill. For an extra $13, or $26 total shipped the corona will outperform and outlast a pasta roller 10 fold. Sorry to discount your idea, I just respectfully feel the pasta roller is not money well spent.

http://www.discounttommy.com/p-189-...er-for-wheat-grains-or-use-as-a-nut-mill.aspx

 

[soccerdad]

Corona is a good mill. I hand crank mine (which is actually a Victoria mill - same thing pretty much) so I don't even do the shroud/bucket thing. It kicks up dust with wheat, but is a pretty clean grind when hand cranking.

 

[RM-MN]

I slip a gallon ziplock bag over the milling part of my Corona style mill and hold it in place with a couple clothes pins. That contains the milled grains and the dust. The full hopper on mine makes about a full ziplock. I can one-hand these over the pot to control how fast it gets dumped in so I can stir out the dough balls as they form.

 

[Murphy2012]

You've convinced me. I've got Amazon Prime so will be purchasing this in the next hour unless I am convinced otherwise.

 

[wilserbrewer]

will be purchasing this in the next hour unless I am convinced otherwise.

Just be aware that these Corona type mills are crudely manufactured cast iron Chinese junk. The upside is that if your are the least bit handy, they can be fashioned into an effective grain mill at a great price, IMO.

When you receive your mill, be sure to wash the stinky packing oil off with hot soapy water and dry well.

 

[Black Island Brewer]

You've convinced me. I've got Amazon Prime so will be purchasing this in the next hour unless I am convinced otherwise.

That is exactly what I purchased last week, it now is a fully contained grain mill with a 5 gallon hopper. $27 for the mill, $5 for the bucket and lid, $10 for the water bottle. Wood and lag bolts already on hand. I could have done it cheaper by scrounging the bucket and bottle, but I wanted to get out done while I had the time.
After doing a crush with it fully tightened, I'm considering trying a coarser grind for my three vessel system as well. If it works, I could sell my roller mill.

 

[Murphy2012]

Thanks to both of you! I'm a pretty handy guy so I'll be building this this weekend as long as the shipping is accurate.

 

[Murphy2012]

Alright, it's been a busy two weeks! I've made my Corona Mills system, and put together a cheapy stir plate for starters, and started harvesting yeast! I've got a 3 day weekend and intend to brew my test batch for our wedding favors tomorrow (have little hope for this recipe) and Saturday I am introducing my buddy to brewing with a single hop (Amarillo) Pale names Thrilla from Amarilla that we came up with together.

I also got some 5.2 stabilizer (using Poland Spring Water) to help with efficiency as well as milling my own grains. I also picked up a Thermowerks DOT thermometer with 12" probe to use during my mash, with my Taylor handheld acting as backup.

Will post results as soon as I have them, hopefully can nail this efficiency thing down before it drives me bonkers!

-Murph

 

[TexasWine]

I'd skip the 5.2 stuff. Haven't used it personally, but everything I've read says it's not useful.

 

[Murphy2012]

Alright, had a brew day today to test out my potential wedding favor brew. I nailed my efficiency guess at 70% which is already a marked improvement and hit my estimated pre boil gravity of 1.033. I was a bit low post boil (1.049 vs 1.051) due to not boiling off as much as normal. This was my first 90 minute boil and I lost a good roll at one point and still haven't figured out why.

My first corona crush started well but the plate loosened up near the end and I had some whole kernels that I missed until I was doughing in. Will mod the mill a bit tonight so it'll be all set for tomorrow's crush. Overall I am quite impressed with the ROI from the Corona Mill.

It's now hiding downstairs, waiting to become beer. Sweet, sweet, beer. Thanks for the help, everyone!

 

[wilserbrewer]

Yes! The wing nuts are pretty poor quality, you really need to tighten them down securely with a pair of pliers to lock off the corona or the adjustment may wander. I think I replaced the nuts on mine with better quality from ace hardware for a couple dollars.

 

[hendo80]

only now planning my 3rd BIAB batch, but I agree with all the comments. I've been at 70% or better mash efficiency my first two batches.

and yes, also learned that most of the volume calculators need tweaking based on your actual experience. My second batch ended up at 63% brewhouse/total efficiency due to too much water....should have started with less water and/or boiled longer.

good luck and enjoy!

 

[RM-MN]

only now planning my 3rd BIAB batch, but I agree with all the comments. I've been at 70% or better mash efficiency my first two batches.

and yes, also learned that most of the volume calculators need tweaking based on your actual experience. My second batch ended up at 63% brewhouse/total efficiency due to too much water....should have started with less water and/or boiled longer.

good luck and enjoy!

Too much water doesn't change the efficiency, just lowers the OG. More boiling would have raised the OG as you would have concentrated the wort more.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

only now planning my 3rd BIAB batch, but I agree with all the comments. I've been at 70% or better mash efficiency my first two batches.

and yes, also learned that most of the volume calculators need tweaking based on your actual experience. My second batch ended up at 63% brewhouse/total efficiency due to too much water....should have started with less water and/or boiled longer.

good luck and enjoy!

Out of curiosity, which calculator did you use? With the right inputs you shouldn't be that far off, my guess is you over estimated the boil off rate, or the absorption rate.

 

[hendo80]

Out of curiosity, which calculator did you use? With the right inputs you shouldn't be that far off, my guess is you over estimated the boil off rate, or the absorption rate.

I use both Brewer's Friend and BeerSmith, and I can tell you that water calculations have become a dark art for me, one that I have not mastered.

I brewed my 3rd BIAB yesterday, another attempt at a Double IPA, started with 9.25 gallons, grain bill of 16.75 lbs. I mashed for 75 minutes at approx. 152 degrees. I rinsed/sparged the grain, after squeezing, with 1 quart of water at about 165 degrees. Ended up with 8.75 gallons at 200 degrees (I was heating the water as I let the bag drip from ratchet pulley, and yes, I've lowered my grain absorption significantly since my last water heavy batch.)

ended boil at about 65 minutes and cooled down to 74 degrees, had a volume of 6.4 gallons. about 5.5 gallons into the fermenter, probably 4 to 5 points off of target OG. With decent attenuation, should still be in the DIPA range.

I think the temperature adjustments are throwing me off. Brewer's friend calculates temp adjustments, but beersmith does not have this option, so I don't know what assumption is being made. I'm presuming a cold water start is the standard, but once you start adding heat of course the volumes expand and it gets confusing.

Any advice or thoughts on the topic for us new BIAB brewers?

 

[pricelessbrewing]

I use both Brewer's Friend and BeerSmith, and I can tell you that water calculations have become a dark art for me, one that I have not mastered.

Any advice or thoughts on the topic for us new BIAB brewers?

What absorption are you using? I recommend around 0.08 gal/lb.

I wasn't aware brewers friend accounted for thermal expansion besides the boil.

My calculator in my sig, pricelessbrewing.github.io/BiabCalc does as well and might be a bit easier to setup.

 

[hendo80]

What absorption are you using? I recommend around 0.08 gal/lb.

I wasn't aware brewers friend accounted for thermal expansion besides the boil.

My calculator in my sig, pricelessbrewing.github.io/BiabCalc does as well and might be a bit easier to setup.

yep, I've been playing with your calculator this morning. nice job on it by the way.

I think I'm starting to see where I'm getting things confused: I'm taking measurements based on the markings on the kettle, hence I always need to adjust for temperature to get back to a baseline value. I see you are giving temp adjusted measurements in inches of water, is the volume (above the inches measurement) temp adjusted as well, or just the inches measurement?

 

[Murphy2012]

So, I had great results using an even more fine crush with yesterdays brew. I was a little high on both pre boil and post boil gravity readings, resulting in a 78.1% conversion efficiency and a supposed 90% pre boil efficiency, per brewer's friend. All in all the brew went great, had a more consistent mash temperature and my "thrilla from amarilla" is bubbling away downstairs!

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Murphy: glad to hear it, the crush is definitely key with biab.

Hendo: all the volumes and inches are temp adjusted, with starting temp adjusted to room temp and pre boil/post boil to 212. I can see the convenience of the gallon markings on the kettle but I'd rather mark it every half inch than in fractions of gallons. I just stick a metal ruler into the wort and get the height.

 

[hendo80]

Too much water doesn't change the efficiency, just lowers the OG. More boiling would have raised the OG as you would have concentrated the wort more.

still trying to get all the efficiency numbers down and understood...definitely would have liked to raise the OG.

Murphy...what gravities did you hit? I too brewed yesterday and came up short on my gravity readings. I'm still trying to get my equipment profiles set properly so I can predict better. my mash efficiency was pretty good in the 70's again, but total efficiency was down to 63%, lots of trub in the kettle that I didn't want in my fermenter, so I left almost a gallon behind. It's whirlpooling for me next time....

 

[TexasWine]

so I left almost a gallon behind. It's whirlpooling for me next time....

Or you could just dump it all in the fermenter. That's my preference.

 

[Murphy2012]

Murphy...what gravities did you hit? I too brewed yesterday and came up short on my gravity readings. I'm still trying to get my equipment profiles set properly so I can predict better. my mash efficiency was pretty good in the 70's again, but total efficiency was down to 63%, lots of trub in the kettle that I didn't want in my fermenter, so I left almost a gallon behind. It's whirlpooling for me next time....

Targeted 1.057 fermenter starting gravity, ended up at 1.060. I also dump all trub into my fermenting bucket.

 

[hendo80]

I hit 1.078 on this batch, target 1.082, so not too bad. I had better success with my first batch in the 1.055 range.

And both of those first two batches had some serious attenuation. I've ended up at 1.09 and 1.12 respectively. I'm actually hoping for less on this third batch to end around 1.016.

I'll be interested to hear where you end up.

 

[Murphy2012]

Well, had a double session this Friday/Saturday. Luckily, my process is going well and I have gotten my brewhouse efficiency to be at about 75%, with conversion in the 80-87% range. I believe I am good with my crush now, but have been using 5.2 buffer just after doughing in to try and settle the mash Ph. After reading several threads now, I understand this isn't a good practice as the buffer doesn't actually settle the ph out. The tough thing for me is that I use spring water so I will have a variation each brew on most water factors. My well water is far too hard and high in manganese to use for brewing, we use a brita to drink the water and tubs/toilets require a once a week scrub. Hopefully some sort of filtration system will come up in the budget this year, but I doubt it. I suppose I can get a ph meter, calibrate it, take mash ph readings, and then adjust. Does that happen to the water pre dough in or post dough in? I have been adding the 5.2 buffer to the mash after doughing in and stirring.

Anyways, back to the brewdays. I was a bit high on my pre boil SG readings for each brew, both by .002. I nailed both post boil gravities, though, because I came up with more wort than expected at each brew by about a quart, no problems there. Having an ATC Refractometer is awesome. I made sure to use the hydrometer as well, just for good measure, but it's now being packed away where SWMBO can't put her hands on it and break it like she always does!

I made my first starter for my Citra IPA (1056 from a previous batch) and boy is it amazing how quickly it starts fermentation! Pitched the yeast and within about 5 hours I had a bubble every second coming from it and it just started slowing down this morning! My second batch, I used Nottingham which I rehydrated and saw some activity (very light) coming from the blow off tube, which has since ceased. I'm just hoping it did it's normal slow start and I see more activity tonight.
Which reminds me is a great time for this question; Does, or has anyone ever had trouble with running two blow off tubes into one container? I would think that there wouldn't be any issues with it, but figured I would check.

One last question --- mash temps. I go crazy with this; where do we measure? How long do I stir suring the mash? Should I stir if my temps stay at target? I have a 12" from my thermowerks DOT and I put the tip just on top of the mash after letting it settle for a minute or so after the first 10 minute stir at dough in. Obviously, I touch the bottom kettle with the tip and it jumps up to 175 or so, but if the tip is above the mash and in 2 or 3" of water, it reads a few degrees below target temps. Any help with this would be awesome. I also don't mind being told to chill out and stop obsessing, but I feel like this is just so important in this process.


Overall, I am loving the BIAB process, and have now got a good friend of mine hooked on making beer, and he now realizes that this is the system to go with.

Just want to say thanks again to everyone that has helped me get going with All Grain on here, I am so happy that I made the move and couldn't have done it without the confidence I gained from reading and asking questions. Cheers, and I look forward to seeing more comments!

-Murph

 

[Gavin C]

Great stuff Murph.

A couple of things.

The pH 5.2. You should explore the brew science forum. A great thread recently looking at alternate uses for this essentially useless product. Gets a bit heated at one point. AJDelange is a mine of knowledge on this and lots of other topics.

I bought some and used it for a few batches. It does not do what it purports to. Trashed it as others have.

I've been exploring the water chemistry side of things and just did a brew using my pH meter.

Hach Pro+ and co.

The mash and your questions. Temperature is important for sure. Stirring not so crucial except at dough in and prior to pulling the bag. I wouldn't sweat it give it an intra-mash stir if you want to.

Blow off: No problems with that

 

[RM-MN]

I suppose I can get a ph meter, calibrate it, take mash ph readings, and then adjust. Does that happen to the water pre dough in or post dough in? I have been adding the 5.2 buffer to the mash after doughing in and stirring.

Since it is the mash pH that counts, I measure the pH right after dough in. With my system, that's too late to make adjustments so I take note of where the pH reads and adjust the next batch. Unless the water you are using is extremely hard, I'd just skip the pH reading unless your beer tastes off and you desire to check to see why. Most water that tastes good to drink is suitable for brewing but can be made better with the right minerals.

 

[Murphy2012]

Gavin, thanks for the words. I have always trolled your thread so I've read about the buffer (ensuing links as well) but am just using it for now until I get a meter or fix my water problems at home.
If you could, reread the mash temp question as its more about probe placement than maintaining temps. Its wordy so i may have made it so it doesn't make sense. Im basically saying that it drives me batty as ill have my probe tip on top of the grain bed when i let it rest, but temps are 4 to 5 degrees cooler two inches from the water surface, and the bottom of tge pot sits at 170 or so. Is this lack of proper stirring or am i being too anal?

 

[Gavin C]

Sorry I didn't read the mash bit too exactly. I think it is inevitable that there will be stratification in the mash as the grain sinks to the bottom. Perhaps the conversion of starch to sugars is exothermic with heat being produced to off set the heat loss to the environment. (I have no idea, this may be nonsense on my part)

A thorough stir is needed to homogenize the wort for sure in order to get a representative temperature reading. Once I get it where I want I button it up and leave it alone. I too, found differing probe placement could change the temperature. Frustrating but it really is measurement error of sorts and not necessarily indicative of a mash temperature off from your target.

My Polder probe reads differently to my pots'. Which should I believe? I bought a Termapen in green on the Paddy's Day sale to remove this confusion and rely on it now for all readings.

Stir the strike water, measure, if OK dough in, if not adjust, measure once things are homogenous at repeated spots to make sure it's all correct, adjust if needed (more strring to cool, a little gas to heat), button it up.

Not sure if I'm any help.

 

[TexasWine]

My Polder probe reads differently to my pots'. Which should I believe? I bought a Termapen in green on the Paddy's Day sale to remove this confusion and rely on it now for all readings.

Off topic, but how does your thermapen read compared to the Polder?