New Beer TV show on Discovery! "How Beer saved the world"

[doctorRobert]

And how qualified is Randy Mosher? A quick search showed not very much.

Search harder and go buy his book! Really, you won't regret it from a beer history perspective or a brewing perspective.

 

[doctorRobert]

I'm not trolling. So I'm supposed to read 10,000 years of history while we've been having this discussion that has lasted less than one hour? Let's get real now.

You've constantly copied text from your prior posts here. I was hoping you'd copy one single reference relating to brewing from 10,000 years ago. Sorry to have bothered you. I'll go and research it.

I'm sorry. Were we suppose to read 10000 years of history and report back? Is that what you wanted?

People have spent their entire lives researching the questions you're asking. If you really want to know, go become an anthropologist.

 

[sudsmcgee]

You're right everyone. I'm completely wrong and the original un-crushed barley that got accidentally left in water 10,000 years ago that was put in contact with wild yeast was capable of producing of producing a 6% ABV beer. I'm so sorry that I brought such a trivial subject into the discussion here. I'll go and get my PhD in beer history now so that I can learn a little bit and one day be worth of asking questions here on this wonderful site full of helpful people who have so far provided ONE historical book worth reading like I asked.

Oh, and Revvy says I'm supposed to say thanks for not answering my questions.

 

[sudsmcgee]

I'm sorry. Were we suppose to read 10000 years of history and report back? Is that what you wanted?

People have spent their entire lives researching the questions you're asking. If you really want to know, go become an anthropologist.

No, I asked for ONE simple factual historical book. Thankfully one book was provided and I thank him for that.

 

[doctorRobert]

You're right everyone. I'm completely wrong and the original un-crushed barley that got accidentally left in water 10,000 years ago that was put in contact with wild yeast was capable of producing of producing a 6% ABV beer. I'm so sorry that I brought such a trivial subject into the discussion here. I'll go and get my PhD in beer history now so that I can learn a little bit and one day be worth of asking questions here on this wonderful site full of helpful people who have so far provided ONE historical book worth reading like I asked.

Oh, and Revvy says I'm supposed to say thanks for not answering my questions.

Please tell me how you know the barley was uncrushed? Who told you that? Are they credible?

 

[dunnright00]

Great, that reference goes back 5,500 years. What about the prior 4,500 years? I'm not disputing you, just looking for the earliest recorded history.

Uhm, most recorded history only goes back to about 5-6 thousand years.

Anything before that is just theory.

 

[bob1852]

You're right everyone. I'm completely wrong and the original un-crushed barley that got accidentally left in water 10,000 years ago that was put in contact with wild yeast was capable of producing of producing a 6% ABV beer. I'm so sorry that I brought such a trivial subject into the discussion here. I'll go and get my PhD in beer history now so that I can learn a little bit and one day be worth of asking questions here on this wonderful site full of helpful people who have so far provided ONE historical book worth reading like I asked.

Oh, and Revvy says I'm supposed to say thanks for not answering my questions.

Wow, and you called Revvy a *********?

Glass houses my friend; glass houses....

 

[RobBug]

West Coast showing. Let the cheese begin!

 

[sudsmcgee]

Please tell me how you know the barley was uncrushed? Who told you that? Are they credible?

I don't know. What I do know is that barley grows on the plant uncrushed, and until they learned that crusing it made the starches more available, they had no reason to crush it.

 

[dunnright00]

Also, the quote that started these last two pages is Here:

What was the other thing they said? Back in the middle ages that each person drank 90 liters a year. 6 times more than today. Huh? I must drink a lot.

and you're response here:

Beer in those days was 1-2% abv at best. It was their equivalent of water. It was NOT the beer we drink today. That was perhaps the only thing the show got right. :cross:

So, the first quote is referencing the Middle Ages. You infer that your reply is about beer made 10,000 years ago.

 

[bob1852]

The Hymn to Ninkasi

Borne of the flowing water (...)
Tenderly cared for by the Ninhursag,
Borne of the flowing water (...)
Tenderly cared for by the Ninhursag,

Having founded your town by the sacred lake,
She finished its great walls for you,
Ninkasi, having founded your town by the sacred lake,
She finished its great walls for you

Your father is Enki, Lord Nidimmud,
Your mother is Ninti, the queen of the sacred lake,
Ninkasi, Your father is Enki, Lord Nidimmud,
Your mother is Ninti, the queen of the sacred lake.

You are the one who handles the dough,
[and] with a big shovel,
Mixing in a pit, the bappir with sweet aromatics,
Ninkasi, You are the one who handles
the dough, [and] with a big shovel,
Mixing in a pit, the bappir with [date]-honey.

You are the one who bakes the bappir
in the big oven,
Puts in order the piles of hulled grains,
Ninkasi, you are the one who bakes
the bappir in the big oven,
Puts in order the piles of hulled grains,

You are the one who waters the malt
set on the ground,
The noble dogs keep away even the potentates,
Ninkasi, you are the one who waters the malt
set on the ground,
The noble dogs keep away even the potentates.

You are the one who soaks the malt in a jar
The waves rise, the waves fall.
Ninkasi, you are the one who soaks
the malt in a jar
The waves rise, the waves fall.

You are the one who spreads the cooked
mash on large reed mats,
Coolness overcomes.
Ninkasi, you are the one who spreads
the cooked mash on large reed mats,
Coolness overcomes.

You are the one who holds with both hands
the great sweet wort,
Brewing [it] with honey and wine
(You the sweet wort to the vessel)
Ninkasi, (...)
(You the sweet wort to the vessel)

The filtering vat, which makes
a pleasant sound,
You place appropriately on [top of]
a large collector vat.
Ninkasi, the filtering vat,
which makes a pleasant sound,
You place appropriately on [top of]
a large collector vat.

When you pour out the filtered beer
of the collector vat,
It is [like] the onrush of
Tigris and Euphrates.
Ninkasi, you are the one who pours out the
filtered beer of the collector vat,
It is [like] the onrush of
Tigris and Euphrates.

If they were adding honey (making braggot you say?), I'll bet $1 they were above your purported "1-2% ABV".

19th Century BC - they're already malting, grinding, mashing, lautering, making braggot - all without WLP001, Star San, and Austin Homebrew Supply free shipping on orders over $100! Gasp!

 

[doctorRobert]

I don't know. What I do know is that barley grows on the plant uncrushed, and until they learned that crusing it made the starches more available, they had no reason to crush it.

And man had tools capable of crushing barley 10,000 years ago. A picture of it was posted. Also you don't have to crush at all. It just makes conversion quicker (like days quicker)- per john palmer. The bigger issue is the mashing itself, not crushing the barley. They also fermented and mashed all at the sametime, most likely. So it was this constant fermenting starch converting barley and wheat water.

Also look up gruit. I think that's how its spelled

 

[bob1852]

I don't know. What I do know is that barley grows on the plant uncrushed, and until they learned that crusing it made the starches more available, they had no reason to crush it.

Other than to make flour in order to make bread.....which is then how they figured out to make beer.....

Have you read anything on the history of beer?

 

[sudsmcgee]

Wow, and you called Revvy a *********?

Glass houses my friend; glass houses....

I've stated that I don't know the answers. I've only asked for legitimate books on the subject. Revvy provided me with none.

I've been reading the links he provided and I haven't had my questions answered yet. I'll keep looking though because I know Revvy knows a lot and I'm sure my own ignorance is my problem.

 

[bob1852]

By the way - Ken Schramm's book "The Compleat Meadmaker" has a great intro chapter on the history of fermented beverages....

 

[Revvy]

And man had tools capable of crushing barley 10,000 years ago. A picture of it was posted.

But doc that picture wasn't in color and shot with a nikon dslr and photographed by ansel adams so therefore it wasn't good enough for our friend.

 

[bob1852]

sudsmcgee - at least tell me you don't think Ben Franklin actually said "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." :fro:

 

[Revvy]

sudsmcgee - at least tell me you don't think Ben Franklin actually said "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." :fro:

I love you. And Doc Robert btw. Lol

 

[doctorRobert]

I love you. And Doc Robert btw. Lol

This has been quite fun.

Who we really need is doc brown and his delorean.

 

[bob1852]

This has been quite fun.

Who we really need is doc brown and his delorean.

 

[bob1852]

I love you. And Doc Robert btw. Lol

Man crush alert! :fro:

 

[sudsmcgee]

But doc that picture wasn't in color and shot with a nikon dslr and photographed by ansel adams so therefore it wasn't good enough for our friend.

BTW, in all seriousness, thanks for everything you do for this website.

 

[RobBug]

On another note - it is obvious after watching the first half of this show, most people are really ignorant of the history of beer and really just think it's a means to just get drunk with. This makes me sad. Very sad.

 

[bob1852]

On another note - it is obvious after watching the first half of this show, most people are really ignorant of the history of beer and really just think it's a means to just get drunk with. This makes me sad. Very sad.

But beer is the reason we went to the moon, right?

 

[sudsmcgee]

OK, serious question here. I've been reading and searching and I stumbled upon this from one of Revvy's links.

"When you mash the emmer wheat, it produces a sugary solution. The archaeologists trying to make Egyptian beer did conventional mashing and boiling in modern pans, and the three-day fermentation took place in a gallon jar. Ancient peoples baked bread after they learned to brew beer."

http://thisisdiversity.com/articles...tian-style-beer-is-so-popular-how-to-make-it/

Am I missing something here?

 

[bob1852]

Oh lord - they just pulled out the "Franklin" quote

 

[bob1852]

Am I missing something here?

No - as you have been so quick to point out multiple times in this thread - the ancient history of beer is not well known.

Based on what I've read (the Hymn, Schramm, some ancient beer book - can't find it now, Oogle, etc.) - I believe the evidence points to bread first; then beer....

 

[Fat_Bastard]

...at least now when I come down with h1n1 I have an excuse to get drunk.I can tell swmbo i'm doing it for the tetracycline

 

[bob1852]

Oh lord - now they just planned a ripped off version of Copeland's Fanfare for the Common Man. Please help me.

 

[bob1852]

Am I reading this correctly? Did bread come after beer?

Can you read that Ben Franklin said "Beer is proof....."

Just 'cuz ya readz it; don't make it right (see my post above).