Never pitching again

[MizzouFermentationScience]

I regularly do "wild" ferments but I'm making the my first sour. I put Wild in quotes because I don't sanitize my fermenters properly, I count on the commercial strains I use from time to time to contaminate my beers and finish the ferms. Typically I leave the kettle outside post boil overnight then transfer to fermentor. On Saturday I skipped the boil step and threw some grain in an unsanitzed cooler I bought at a thrift shop with half the wort, the other half in a carboy. I was planning on doing a kettle sour and reboil, but the lacto culture I was building from buttermilk wasn't ready so I just left the wort outside for three days in 90 degree heat. OG was 1.060, when I checked today it was roiling and gravity was 1.018. Taste was wonderfully sour, the carboy was contaminated with saison yeast but the cooler was incredibly fruity- like fermenting wine. I moved them to a ferm bucket with some dry hops, hopefully to suppress the lacto while ferm finishes. So much for boiling. I think I'm addicted to the randomness, my version of a gambling problem.

 

[foltster]

On Saturday I skipped the boil step and threw some grain in an unsanitzed cooler I bought at a thrift shop with half the wort, the other half in a carboy. I was planning on doing a kettle sour and reboil, but the lacto culture I was building from buttermilk wasn't ready so I just left the wort outside for three days in 90 degree heat.

Well, what made you think the buttermilk culture wasn't ready but the culture in the cooler was ready? You should have made a starter for that cooler culture.

90 for 3 days outside anywhere sounds unlikely. Its been hot here, 90 degree days, but at least in the 70s at night. Might want to get a brewbelt to maintain your chosen temps overnight.

Were they both at 1.018 ? I figured carboy with yeast would ferment faster.


Honest advice:
You might want to CO2 purge your vessels to prevent off flavors.
You might want to sanitize your vessels.
You might want to consider making a few grain starters and selecting from among them for positive results.

 

[MizzouFermentationScience]

Not sure anyone cares but an update on the finished beer:
5 gallons almost gone in 10 days. My wife (favorite beers: Abita purple haze, Vienna lager, bud light) has been drinking it preferentially. An old brewing buddy who "doesn't like sour beers" came in town for a weekend and drank at least a gallon. I carbed it pretty high for extra crispness, it was the perfect companion for Thai food. First impression is definitely funky- but I think this has more to do with no boil. By the second sip it tastes clean and drinks incredibly quickly. It is a quick little foam pony. I originally planned on flavoring it with strawberry or some fruit, but now I think I will add citrusy dry hops and maybe some lemongrass in the future. I will report back on future batches to see if this was just a lucky first shot.
As for sanitation concerns- I have been an ardent opponent to the sterilization nazis on this website, but I decided to see if I had gone too far. I brewed my dirty house saison malt bill in sanitized equipment with US-05 to see if I could still make a clean beer. It is very clean tasting, a rather boring but chuggable pale ale. To be clear, I recognize the dangers of oxidation and do not conflate poor brewing practices with natural fermentation. I do find however, that spontaneous fermentation makes brewing a lot of fun and while it may not result in consistency; it has yet to result in bad beer.

 

[Beerswimmer]

This is pretty much going to be my method when I move later this month. Sour worting, no boil, less sanitizing, very little if any hops, no pilsner, more toasted malts, wood in the fermentor will be reused for the next batch, additions of local fruit without washing, wild unpasteurized honey instead of sugar, etc... Less worry, less expectations, less modern methods..... More like our ancient ancestors?

And probably "spontaneous" through the winter. Let the wort cool uncovered overnight, maybe another day, then into a recently used fermenter with a little yeast probably left stuck in it and some wood from a previous batch.

 

[MizzouFermentationScience]

I used Pilsner malt for this brew. Originally I was planning on boiling after souring but things got away from me; so I wasn't worried about DMS. But I have to say that there is no significant canned corn flavor. I thought I got a hint on the first smell but two other homebrewers did not pick up on it. I'm not a traditionalist when it comes to recipes so I'm not hung up on Berliner Weiss using Pilsner malt, but I would say it is not a detriment DMS wise at 50% if the bready flavor is desired (which I'm usually not a fan of but seemed to work here). I think there are a lot of variations that can be toyed with along the natural ferm and souring approach, definetly a neat new tool in the aresenal.

 

[Miraculix]

This is pretty much going to be my method when I move later this month. Sour worting, no boil, less sanitizing, very little if any hops, no pilsner, more toasted malts, wood in the fermentor will be reused for the next batch, additions of local fruit without washing, wild unpasteurized honey instead of sugar, etc... Less worry, less expectations, less modern methods..... More like our ancient ancestors?

And probably "spontaneous" through the winter. Let the wort cool uncovered overnight, maybe another day, then into a recently used fermenter with a little yeast probably left stuck in it and some wood from a previous batch.

I like that appproach!

What temperature range would you guys suggest? I am a bitt afraid that all the othe micro organisms may eat up the sugar and produce a huuuuge amount of acid before the yeast developped enough to produce a fair amount of alcohol. Is that a problem or am I imagining something?

 

[MizzouFermentationScience]

Speaking from very limited experience: I left the fermenters out in 90F daytime highs/65F nights and alcoholic fermentation happened concurrently. When I tasted after 3 days, the sourness seemed right so I racked and added dry hops. I moved the fermenter inside and it completed ferm around 75F three days later. I waited another day and cold crashed for a week (thinking that I wanted hop aroma but no more souring). When it was all carbed up, it was not nearly as sour as I thought in the primary. Still obviously tart but quite balanced. I do not know for sure, but the theory of hops inhibiting LABs seems to have worked for me (not to mention the whole IPA thing providing pretty good evidence). I would also say take it a bit more sour than you think during primary because the beer smooths out. The other option is a "boil" once desired sourness is achieved. The scientist in me knows that bringing the wort to 170 for a minute won't evaporate much alcohol, but my college self would hate wasting that precious booze. In my specific case, I did not "boil" because I was worried about getting a yeast started in 1.018 and ~4% alcohol.

 

[Miraculix]

Thanks for the reply. I am currently thinking about wild fermentation from the hopless side of beer, gruit beer without hops. It gets a bit tricky when one cannot rely on hops to stop the labs from turning the carbs into acid.

Maybe keeping a lower temperature would help, as those little bugs like it warmer than yeast does. Then the yeast would have more time to eat the sugar itself which would mean less acid at the end of the day.

... It surely is complex!

 

[passedpawn]

I regularly do "wild" ferments but I'm making the my first sour. I put Wild in quotes because I don't sanitize my fermenters properly, I count on the commercial strains I use from time to time to contaminate my beers and finish the ferms. Typically I leave the kettle outside post boil overnight then transfer to fermentor. On Saturday I skipped the boil step and threw some grain in an unsanitzed cooler I bought at a thrift shop with half the wort, the other half in a carboy. I was planning on doing a kettle sour and reboil, but the lacto culture I was building from buttermilk wasn't ready so I just left the wort outside for three days in 90 degree heat. OG was 1.060, when I checked today it was roiling and gravity was 1.018. Taste was wonderfully sour, the carboy was contaminated with saison yeast but the cooler was incredibly fruity- like fermenting wine. I moved them to a ferm bucket with some dry hops, hopefully to suppress the lacto while ferm finishes. So much for boiling. I think I'm addicted to the randomness, my version of a gambling problem.

"Sanitation nazis"?

Although this is a hobby and not a serious commercial concern, most homebrewers still want to maximize their chances of success. Also, most homebrewers have a target beer in mind. Unless it's a funky and/or sour style, wild fermentation is probably not going to get them the beer they are hoping for. I can appreciate the desire to try wild fermentation - I've done it myself, but it's not the best way for most brewers. The best way for most brewers involves starsan and boiling.

[edit] I just realized this was in the lambic/wild forum, so if that's your target audience then I see your point - sorry for the interruption

 

[MizzouFermentationScience]

"Sanitation nazis"?

Although this is a hobby and not a serious commercial concern, most homebrewers still want to maximize their chances of success. Also, most homebrewers have a target beer in mind. Unless it's a funky and/or sour style, wild fermentation is probably not going to get them the beer they are hoping for. I can appreciate the desire to try wild fermentation - I've done it myself, but it's not the best way for most brewers. The best way for most brewers involves starsan and boiling.

[edit] I just realized this was in the lambic/wild forum, so if that's your target audience then I see your point - sorry for the interruption

How often do people post on this website things like "Is my beer ruined because I dropped a spoon on the ground???!!! HELP!" The ONLY thing most homebrewers have access to that is commercially consistent is yeast- and even then 90% of the "I clean everything" crowd is rehydrating improperly and killing most of the cells. I'm not recommending Wild ferments to anyone outside this forum, but I have to actively try to get funky flavors and sourness. The variations in homebrew are almost certainly not due to microbial contamination if you follow very basic sanitation procedures.