Never dump your beer!!! Patience IS a virtue!!! Time heals all things, even beer!

[roxbob]

So, I'm really hoping this thread's advice pans out in my case. After taking the plunge recently and stepping up to all grain after years of extract brewing , I brewed my first 10-gallon batch a little over two weeks ago, Northern Brewer's cream ale kit. I used a starter made from safale-05 I recycled from a previous batch.

I think I may have either picked up some nasties from the recycled yeast (maybe I didn't properly wash it, I'm pretty new to re-using yeast), or made a bad call by insufficiently aerating before pitching the yeast - I tried the olive oil trick instead. Even though I used yeast nutrient, there was about a 24-hour lag before visible fermentation began.

I realize it's still pretty green, but it now has one heck of an off flavor and odor - hard to describe, but kind of sharp, unpleasant, and licorice-y. The off flavor *really* lingers in the aftertaste. I need to drink a good beer after tasting to get it to go away. I can't decide if it's just yeast bite, or something worse (seems worse). I racked to secondary this past weekend and have been cold crashing to settle the yeast out, but the taste is still just as strong in the clear beer from the top of the carboy. There was also quite a bit of clumpy yeast in suspension when I racked them to secondary, I think I've read in other threads that clumpy yeast is a sign of possible infeciton.

Anyway, my only question would be, am I more likely to age out this terrible off flavor if I bottle and condition the beer, or if I just let it sit in the secondary? I'd originally intended on kegging it, but I'll bottle if there's more of a chance that this can be salvaged that way. It's be a real bummer to have to dump a 10-gallon batch....

 

[Revvy]

S

Anyway, my only question would be, am I more likely to age out this terrible off flavor if I bottle and condition the beer, or if I just let it sit in the secondary? I'd originally intended on kegging it, but I'll bottle if there's more of a chance that this can be salvaged that way. It's be a real bummer to have to dump a 10-gallon batch....

You need to see the beer through IT'S ENTIRE PROCESS...That means BOTTLE CONDITIONING.

 

[Trail]

You need to see the beer through IT'S ENTIRE PROCESS...That means BOTTLE CONDITIONING.

So does this mean that some beers NEED to be bottle conditioned, and kegging them won't work?

 

[roxbob]

Thanks for the quick reply Revvy, I'll do that and cross my fingers. Now I just need to find 100-ish empty bottles. Looks like I have some soaking and scrubbing in my future...

 

[Revvy]

So does this mean that some beers NEED to be bottle conditioned, and kegging them won't work?

Kegging, bottle conditioning, whatever, the point it you need to see the process through to the end, and then some.....

 

[bottlebomber]

True... I had a strong Irish red I did 6 months or so back. The fermentation got totally out of control and from when I went to work in the morning to when I came home it shot from 68 to 74. Not much to be done about it at that point. It tasted like rotten apricots when I bottled it. A few weeks ago I opened one to see what has happened and it had turned into an awesome brew. A little on the fruity side, but what a transformation.

 

[lamppa]

You need to see the beer through IT'S ENTIRE PROCESS...That means BOTTLE CONDITIONING.

yeah, bottle conditioning will fix anything. Very little info and we can just jump to this conclusion. Must be good advise.

 

[Revvy]

yeah, bottle conditioning will fix anything. Very little info and we can just jump to this conclusion. Must be good advise.

As this thread has proven, over and over and over, for the last several years by the folks who continue to post their successes, it usually is the case more times than not...hence the advice.

You won't get much sympathy if you're trolling in this thread....

 

[mashuganabrew]

Thanks Revvy, Great story and as always, a great resource!

 

[Trail]

yeah, bottle conditioning will fix anything. Very little info and we can just jump to this conclusion. Must be good advise.

Revvy's avatar has Yoda AND beer on it. Listen to the man.

Even if it IS new trilogy CGI yoda.

 

[ZIXXER]

You may have saved 10 gallons of beer from certain death...

Brewed an American Pilsner and Munich Helles back on 7 February -

Both were one week in a primary and two weeks in the secondary plus a day...

The yeast was the liquid smack package kind and frankly the bag never really swelled that much...but the notes said not to worry, it doesn't always bloat the package.

So at this point I'm 11ish days in bottles and crack open one of each just to see and taste knowing I'm a bit early....no head, flat tasting (green) with only a hint of carbonation going on....in the light, I can see a decent amount of tiny bubbles raising but absolutely NO head to speak of...

So I almost pitched them both as the first brew was a Kolsch with the same amount of time and the head on the beer after even a week was awesome although the taste wasn't very smooth. Six weeks in the bottle and it was awesome.

So I'm assuming I just need to be patient and wait....it will carb up more over the weeks?

 

[Grinder12000]

Never say never. Time will not fix everything. It's an optimistic fallacy

 

[Revvy]

Never say never. Time will not fix everything. It's an optimistic fallacy

And yet, as this thread has proven over and over and over since 2008, thousands of times which you might have noticed, most of those who have waited a period of time, have drunk those beers they were going thinking of dumping, and found that what they were concerned about has dissappeared.

SO I don't know why after all these years you feel the need to post this, but you clearly haven't figured out what this thread is about.....

*shrug*

 

[MotorcycleMatt]

You may have saved 10 gallons of beer from certain death...

Brewed an American Pilsner and Munich Helles back on 7 February -

Both were one week in a primary and two weeks in the secondary plus a day...

The yeast was the liquid smack package kind and frankly the bag never really swelled that much...but the notes said not to worry, it doesn't always bloat the package.

So at this point I'm 11ish days in bottles and crack open one of each just to see and taste knowing I'm a bit early....no head, flat tasting (green) with only a hint of carbonation going on....in the light, I can see a decent amount of tiny bubbles raising but absolutely NO head to speak of...

So I almost pitched them both as the first brew was a Kolsch with the same amount of time and the head on the beer after even a week was awesome although the taste wasn't very smooth. Six weeks in the bottle and it was awesome.

So I'm assuming I just need to be patient and wait....it will carb up more over the weeks?

Yes, just be patient, they will carb up

 

[rhamilton]

And yet, as this thread has proven over and over and over since 2008, thousands of times which you might have noticed, most of those who have waited a period of time, have drunk those beers they were going thinking of dumping, and found that what they were concerned about has dissappeared.

This was one of the most important threads I've read here. Huge thanks Revvy!

I brewed a Belgian Saison months ago and it was FUNNNNNKYYYY! It was so funky it made me gag after 3-4 sips and I wanted to dump it but I remembered this thread. After 5 months of aging, it had transformed into a Chimay White / La Fin Du Monde tasting Belgian that is probably my best beer to-date and it'll be my first comp entry ever if I don't drink them all. I would have really regretted dumping it.

 

[buzzbean]

You give me, (like many others) hope Revvy. I like how this thread is both a wall of shame and in many cases redemption. So I'd like to add my bit.

Recently had a b-day so I upgraded a lot of my kit. Did a tweaked version of a batch I had done before and thinking I was cleaver tried a couple of tricks. I do BIAB but with my new pot I realized about 10 min in that the bag was blocking the thermometer so while I thought I was at 155, I was really closer to 165. So I think I had a mash out 15 min into the brew.

Second bone head thing I did was I put the hops in muslin baggies so as to keep the sludge down. Well when I transferred into the primary I noticed that they had really swelled and were so tight that I swear I could feel the pellets, so I don't think I got all (or much) of the oils out.

Third bone head thing was because of the messed up mash I added a bit of sugar to goose it up due to a low OG.

If this tastes good in a year I might have to rediscover religion!

 

[ZIXXER]

Oh yes, the beer is looking good.... six days later and it has totally changed. I will let it condition longer but clearly it is carbing up and the taste smoother. Thank you for this thread.

 

[bob1006]

Second all grain batch I did was a Cali common. due to some bad advice I made a beer that was absolutely undrinkable. The visual malt and the hips mixed with the yeast, WOW! knock your head off.

Well that was a year ago, packed them up and soured them in the closet. Yesterday I "found" them and put one in the fridge.

I have to say its the best beer I've ever had. Everything blended together nicely.

So right, patience.

 

[shawshank24]

This thread hurts my feelings. My experience has been the opposite - my beers taste good out of fermenter when i rack to keg, and force carb, sometimes a bit green. Shortly after carbing (within 1-3 weeks) they generally taste very good. after some time, however, they all seem to thin out and lose maltiness and some of them have taken on a medicinal taste - i had beers that tasted medicinal from the get-go, and have been treating my water with campden, which eliminated this flavor initially, but it seems to be creeping back into my beers with time.

This seems to be happening to my beers whether i keep them in the keg, or if i bottle, and it's driving me crazy.

any ideas?

 

[homebrewdad]

This thread hurts my feelings. My experience has been the opposite - my beers taste good out of fermenter when i rack to keg, and force carb, sometimes a bit green. Shortly after carbing (within 1-3 weeks) they generally taste very good. after some time, however, they all seem to thin out and lose maltiness and some of them have taken on a medicinal taste - i had beers that tasted medicinal from the get-go, and have been treating my water with campden, which eliminated this flavor initially, but it seems to be creeping back into my beers with time.

This seems to be happening to my beers whether i keep them in the keg, or if i bottle, and it's driving me crazy.

any ideas?

Contamination/infection, sounds like. How good are your sanitation proceedures?

Are you using plastic fermenters? May be time to replace all plastic gear to be sure that a persistent bug is gone.

 

[shawshank24]

Contamination/infection, sounds like. How good are your sanitation proceedures?

Are you using plastic fermenters? May be time to replace all plastic gear to be sure that a persistent bug is gone.

I feel like my sanitation is on point. Clean everything and use star san. I am using better bottles, but i just bounced from 3 gal to 6 gal, so they were new the most recent batches. My auto-siphon is also pretty much brand new. I bottle from the keg, if i am infected, it would probably have to be in my beer line and/or picnic tap... but it seems to happen when i leave the beer kegged as well, although it seems slower if i don't bottle...

I guess i'll replace some tubing and taps and see what happens with my next batch.

 

[VladOfTrub]

shawshank: Are you using all grain or any grain in your brews? If your rinsing out your equipment with high chlorine tap water, after sanitizing. The wort has the tendency to pick up the left over rinse water chloros that combine with the phenols, developed from a poor crush and poor sparge. Making Chlorophenols, which give beer the medicine, chemical, banana, sometimes clove flavor. If your water and brewing procedures are OK. Then U got bugzzzzz in the works...Too bad the brew didn't have more of the banana/clove taste. You could have slipped it by as a Belgian or wheat.

 

[shawshank24]

i do all grain BIAB. i guess my main suspect is bugs, i'll get some new plastic and see if anything changes. thanks guys

 

[rhamilton]

i do all grain BIAB. i guess my main suspect is bugs, i'll get some new plastic and see if anything changes. thanks guys

Consider a bleaching. My first three brews had this stage taste to them. Not batch ruining bit out was indeed a common flaw. After thinking it was extract twang and water quality, I bleached everything and it went away. While I have no way to verify, I still believe it was some kind of Star San resistant bug.

 

[shawshank24]

Ok, i will give my stuff a good soak and scrub using bleach before i brew the next batch, thanks for the suggestion.

but i just had a thought - could force carbing with CO2 possibly be the source of this? I'm one of those guys that uses grade-unknown CO2 from the auto shop where i used to work. Do you think if the flavor was coming from the CO2 that it would be there from the getgo and not develop with time?

 

[drhookmec]

Why is this not a sticky??
It's got my vote.

 

[greinerbrew]

As a respectful nod to Revvy, I will be patient. Brewed a hefweisen extract 8 days ago. Pitched yeast at 78 deg., and it went into my basement which is around 62 deg this time of year. After 18 hours, I had "major" fermentation such that I had to take out the air lock for a blow off tube. Then put it in the chest freezer, set the temp controller at 62 and let PF complete. Popped the primary to take a fermentation reading yesterday and it's about .05 lower that it should be and tastes exactly like bubblegum !! I have no problem with patience, will just keep it between 62 and 68 for the next week and move to secondary for another 2-3 weeks. Then it will go into the bottles for what sounds like will be 3 months before I know how it turns out. Thank God for enough equipment to keep around 4 brews going at once and the wife for the second chest freezer I don't have to dedicate to lagers anymore. Cheers.

 

[SilvaRizla]

I wholeheartedly agree, there's a topic here I made about finding 2 year old beer and it being safe to drink (it, it was absolutely delicious actually). Well, I was sorting out the shed yesterday and wondering if there was anything left of an old keg I'd not seen for a while. When I found it, the same coopers draught was in it thats now 7 (yes, 7) years old. Its perfect, still carbonated and a very nice drop indeed. I couldn't believe it

 

[gnarlyhopper]

Hi

I must add my letters.
My first batch (a slightly modified Cooper's w/ 2lbs light LME) got the treatment. Too excited, I guess. I forgot to stir while adding the extract, and it scorched real nice. Didn't know until I poured out the wort. Took a while to clean the pot with oven cleaner. Seemed to take forever to cool in the sink with an icebath.
First day fermenting, the fermenter got up to 86F, so I reacted by getting it back into cold water in the sink.
And what a taste! It sucked. Didn't taste like beer. But I stuck to Revvy's advice- give it time.

I gave it 2 months. It is all gone now! It worked! When I first tried it after 1 month, it had a strong phenolic-clove-bitterness that made it near impossible to continue evaluation. I would have thrown it out had it not been for this thread. We enjoyed it in spite of the dwindling off flavor, that had nearly disappeared after cold conditioning the bottles for a week. I nicknamed it "Angry Patron"- I could see an innkeeper offering his brew to a thirsty traveler, and the response of the patron would surely be laced with four-letter words and threats- but he would eventually sit down and have his fill.
After this batch we bottled an American Wheat. Done a lot more carefully, this was too easy to drink. Just bottled the last half of the batch a few days ago. It sucks to spend so much time on brewing and bottling just to have it disappear so fast!

Patience does pay off. I might have been tempted to throw in the homebrewing towel with that nasty first batch.

A wort chiller will be assembled before the next batch. They are zip-quick compared to the ice bath method.

Time does heal all things, even beer! Can't agree more!



gnarlyhopper

 

[Newt0Brew]

Youre story has inspired me, thanks to someone who referenced me here for a near identical occurrence happening right now

 

[lebucheron]

Will time help the 'cidery' taste of my only dextrose pre-hopped kit? Beuuah. Won't make that mistake twice.

 

[Trail]

It depends. If you're dealing with an actual cidery taste - that is, from adding too much sugar or something - it'll probably fade to some extent, eventually. If it's just green beer, though, that green apple flavor will definitely clear up.

Edit: ...Whoa. Missed the dextrose-only thing. Um, you might see some improvement but I wouldn't be too hopeful. Maybe you have a new cooking beer?

 

[BoomerHarley]

I don't know if I agree with this thread. I just dumped five gallons of mead and am about to dump five gallons of a spiced stout. The mead was just nasty. And even if it wasn't I realized it just isn't something I would ever drink. Ever.

The stout, welllllllll. Technically it came out great. But the spice mix gave it a flavor very similar to Jaegermaister. Once again, not somthing I would ever drink for enjoyment. Ever. I've tried everything. I tried putting vanilla in it and it helped, but still tastes like crap. Most recently I soaked some oak cubes in Maker's Mark and added that. Still tastes like satan's butthole.

My point is that how long do I want to tie up the space and keep a keg occupied when I could brew up another great beer in no time. The stout sucks.

 

[VladOfTrub]

I've dumped a lot of beer over the years. Many didn't live up to my expectations and many went funky. I never had the patience to age out a funky beer. However, there were times that I surprised myself by finding bottles of stashed beer that were funky at 6 months, but were great at a year! I have also, had some beer that was funky, right to the bitter end. So, I'd say if we have the room, we don't need the fermentor, keg, or whatever we put the beer in. Age it out. See what happens. There's probably some kind of learning curve type thing that may come into play. But, right now, I can't figure out why?

 

[TimpanogosSlim]

Will time help the funky tart aftertaste in the pale ale that fermented in the 70's with notty?

I guess I get to wait and find out. 5 gallons of it. Tried one of the 6 bottles i put up and it was sorta funky. Got about 4.5g in a keg. bah.

 

[makomachine]

Will time help the funky tart aftertaste in the pale ale that fermented in the 70's with notty?

I guess I get to wait and find out. 5 gallons of it. Tried one of the 6 bottles i put up and it was sorta funky. Got about 4.5g in a keg. bah.

Notty tartness usually subsides in a month or so - but you gotta keep it cool, and 70's is too warm. It gets low 60's or even high 50's when you want it clean.

 

[TimpanogosSlim]

Notty tartness usually subsides in a month or so - but you gotta keep it cool, and 70's is too warm. It gets low 60's or even high 50's when you want it clean.

Yeah, I'm aware, now.

but it's honestly been in the bottle for over a month now.

It was a "clean out the freezer" brew of spare malts and hops with no late hops so i am looking at adding a hop tea to the keg. I've got 5 more bottles, but the 1st one wasn't really pleasant.

I talk like i know **** but really I am just a sponge for information I'm interested in, and I've been brewing for less than a year now.

 

[bottlebomber]

I don't know if I agree with this thread. I just dumped five gallons of mead and am about to dump five gallons of a spiced stout. The mead was just nasty. And even if it wasn't I realized it just isn't something I would ever drink. Ever.

The stout, welllllllll. Technically it came out great. But the spice mix gave it a flavor very similar to Jaegermaister. Once again, not somthing I would ever drink for enjoyment. Ever. I've tried everything. I tried putting vanilla in it and it helped, but still tastes like crap. Most recently I soaked some oak cubes in Maker's Mark and added that. Still tastes like satan's butthole.

My point is that how long do I want to tie up the space and keep a keg occupied when I could brew up another great beer in no time. The stout sucks.

Lol.. It sounds like you need to change towards brewing beer that at least has a fighting chance of being good. That stout sounds damn nasty lol

 

[Snicks]

I don't know if I agree with this thread. I just dumped five gallons of mead and am about to dump five gallons of a spiced stout. The mead was just nasty. And even if it wasn't I realized it just isn't something I would ever drink. Ever.

The stout, welllllllll. Technically it came out great. But the spice mix gave it a flavor very similar to Jaegermaister. Once again, not somthing I would ever drink for enjoyment. Ever. I've tried everything. I tried putting vanilla in it and it helped, but still tastes like crap. Most recently I soaked some oak cubes in Maker's Mark and added that. Still tastes like satan's butthole.

My point is that how long do I want to tie up the space and keep a keg occupied when I could brew up another great beer in no time. The stout sucks.

If time can't heal it, half a dozen pints or so of something else probably will .

 

[lebucheron]

It depends. If you're dealing with an actual cidery taste - that is, from adding too much sugar or something - it'll probably fade to some extent, eventually. If it's just green beer, though, that green apple flavor will definitely clear up.

Edit: ...Whoa. Missed the dextrose-only thing. Um, you might see some improvement but I wouldn't be too hopeful. Maybe you have a new cooking beer?

AH cooking. Good call. I won't dump it since it's in pet bottles I don't need anyways. Thanks.