Never dump your beer!!! Patience IS a virtue!!! Time heals all things, even beer!

[brewmcq]

I did a couple brews.. a porter and an irish red.. time slipped away from me, and they sat in their respective fermenters for about a month and a half.

I've never had an issue with long ferment times.. in fact, beers that sat over a month came out a ton better. I nailed all my temps and gravities, and these are both ingredient kits that I have used with great success before.

However.. there were some variables that changed:

1) I switched to a bigger (10 gallon) beverage cooler mash tun.
2) I "cold pitched" my yeast.. the sweet wort was about 55F when I pitched.
3) The beers fermented in my basement, away from any direct sunlight, in a fairly constant 66F (+/- 2 degrees).
4) I kegged the batches (first time kegging) and force-carbed them.

Everything was washed and sanitized as always. I had done an especially good job washing the new mashtun as well as all the new kegging equipment (lines and taps and all).

So while the kegs have been carbing for only 3 days, I wanted to taste test them to monitor the carbing process. I started with the irish red ale, and while not undrinkable, it's.. well.. undrinkable. I can't even begin to describe the taste... it's just.. "off". There is such a thin mouthfeel, no real malty aroma...

Disappointed, I dumped out the rest of the glass, rinsed it and went to the porter, which has never let me down. "Plastic bananas" is what I'm tasting. I think. Maybe it's just a banana nose, but again, I'm not really sure. Regardless, it's not drinkable as is.

So looking through my list of changed variables... obviously the new plastic stuff I have could be lending their flavor to the beer.. although it tasted pretty good going into the fermenters. I know for a fact the ambient temps in the basement never went over 68F.

So that leaves two real variables in my mind: fermenting in the basement or the new kegging stuff... I'm going to put my money on fermenting in the basement... even though I've got fresh airflow through my brewing area, it still smells damp and musty, like every other old basement in the world.

Has anyone else's experiences shown them that an environment like that can lend itself to crappy beer? Or is there something else I should be looking at?

 

[brewmcq]

Definitely esters on the porter. Like really bad. F^&$

 

[PricePeeler]

Are you aging it longer at fermentation temp or at serving temp? both? If my batch comes out poorly I have some room in my beer serving fridge to let a keg sit for a while.

Anyone?

 

[iparks81]

Both, I normally leave a beer on the yeast at fermentation temp 65-70 for 3 weeks to a month (even a month and a half with some Belgians) then bottle/keg and let age for 3+ weeks...normally I don't like to dig into a batch for a month and a half...all it takes is patients ..just get a pipeline going so you only have to wait once rather than waiting all that time between each batch.

age at room temp not in the fridge/kegerator...it will age faster.

 

[PricePeeler]

Today marks my beer's fourth week in the primary carboy, planning on not kegging until at least midweek or this weekend.
That will make it almost 5 weeks in the primary, I did not want to rush things.

So you are saying, the beer will age well at room temperature, but it will also age at serving temperature, just slower? The yeast are most active at their recommended fermentation range, but also still do their work at low temps?

What is your room temperature, do you mean fermentation temp ish.

Working on that pipeline...
Thank you,

 

[BlackJaqueJanaviac]

I'm encouraged. I recently purchase another corny keg to increase my storage capacity and thereby increase my conditioning time. I brew something like every 6 weeks so I'm hoping that by tapping kegs that are 12 weeks old instead of 6 weeks old will improve the quality.

 

[BrewGoose]

Ok, first off, "Hey everyone!" This is my first post to these forums.

Here's my story:
On 4/18/11 I brewed a most difficult batch. (It was my second batch ever so it was really difficult for me) The brew was an attempt to copy Dogfish Head's WWS. Dropped about $120 on the ingredients, including some equipment to infuse the primary fermenter with O2 for the first week. The brew went great and I thought all was perfect. The Super High Gravity Ale Yeast did their job nicely as the ABV ended up just north of 19%. *One more note before moving on, the 5 gallon batch contained 22 lbs of various malt sources and 10oz of hops (Columbus, Magnum, and Amarillo)* Knowing such a big beer would need time to mature and mellow I boxed up the bottles and put them away in a nice, dark and pretty constant temp regulated area, my closet floor. My intentions were to wait a year before opening the cases. I also sat four bottles aside to open at various times to taste, make notes and try to identify the 'sweet spot' for the beer.

I opened my first bottle tonight, so 5 months after bottling. I poured it next to an actual bottle of WWS to compare and take notes. Right from the get go I noticed something truly disappointing, my beer was flat, no carbonation at all. No head. The WWS was amazing, with the head taking up 3/4 of the glass, with a gentle pour. Next, the taste. My beer was overly malty on the front end and VERY hoppy on the finish. My sweet tastebuds were at war with my bitter buds. Of course the WWS had a consistent, smooth, and malty flavor that left me wanting more. My beer was undrinkable.

Now from what this forum is saying... I should wait it out. My question is this, should I re-bottle after 5 months of sitting, waiting for the carbonation?

On another thread here, I read that people were keeping their DFH WWS for 3 years or more before cracking them open. So if I need to wait, I will. But what do you all think?

Thanks ahead of time for your advice and comments.
~Goose

 

[Skarekrough]

Dumped another one this afternoon.

A few days ago I was walking down the stairs and felt my hygrometer tap the door frame. Didn't think much of it. A few minutes later it was acting wonky as I was checking the numbers. I took a look at it and about 1/3 of the glass on the base sloughed off and went into the beer.

I could have filtered it...perhaps. But the risk wasn't worth it for me. If I miss something it could mean incredible discomfort for me or a guest in my home.

Down the sink it went.

 

[jeffd10]

+1 on the proper use of the word "Wonky"
-1 for not filtering ...that poor beer

 

[PricePeeler]

I dumped my beer!....


Into My Mouth..

 

[Trail]

Dumped another one this afternoon.

A few days ago I was walking down the stairs and felt my hygrometer tap the door frame. Didn't think much of it. A few minutes later it was acting wonky as I was checking the numbers. I took a look at it and about 1/3 of the glass on the base sloughed off and went into the beer.

I could have filtered it...perhaps. But the risk wasn't worth it for me. If I miss something it could mean incredible discomfort for me or a guest in my home.

Down the sink it went.

Don't check hydro in the bucket, fella.

 

[paulster2626]

Dumped another one this afternoon.

A few days ago I was walking down the stairs and felt my hygrometer tap the door frame. Didn't think much of it. A few minutes later it was acting wonky as I was checking the numbers. I took a look at it and about 1/3 of the glass on the base sloughed off and went into the beer.

I could have filtered it...perhaps. But the risk wasn't worth it for me. If I miss something it could mean incredible discomfort for me or a guest in my home.

Down the sink it went.

Just rack off the top 1/2 at least to be safe. Plus I saw a guy on TV who had a mental disorder, and he ate glass all the time. So you still should have drank it. Could have even made people sign a waiver!

 

[electric_beer]

Ok, first off, "Hey everyone!" This is my first post to these forums.

Here's my story:
On 4/18/11 I brewed a most difficult batch. (It was my second batch ever so it was really difficult for me) The brew was an attempt to copy Dogfish Head's WWS. Dropped about $120 on the ingredients, including some equipment to infuse the primary fermenter with O2 for the first week. The brew went great and I thought all was perfect. The Super High Gravity Ale Yeast did their job nicely as the ABV ended up just north of 19%. *One more note before moving on, the 5 gallon batch contained 22 lbs of various malt sources and 10oz of hops (Columbus, Magnum, and Amarillo)* Knowing such a big beer would need time to mature and mellow I boxed up the bottles and put them away in a nice, dark and pretty constant temp regulated area, my closet floor. My intentions were to wait a year before opening the cases. I also sat four bottles aside to open at various times to taste, make notes and try to identify the 'sweet spot' for the beer.

I opened my first bottle tonight, so 5 months after bottling. I poured it next to an actual bottle of WWS to compare and take notes. Right from the get go I noticed something truly disappointing, my beer was flat, no carbonation at all. No head. The WWS was amazing, with the head taking up 3/4 of the glass, with a gentle pour. Next, the taste. My beer was overly malty on the front end and VERY hoppy on the finish. My sweet tastebuds were at war with my bitter buds. Of course the WWS had a consistent, smooth, and malty flavor that left me wanting more. My beer was undrinkable.

Now from what this forum is saying... I should wait it out. My question is this, should I re-bottle after 5 months of sitting, waiting for the carbonation?

On another thread here, I read that people were keeping their DFH WWS for 3 years or more before cracking them open. So if I need to wait, I will. But what do you all think?

Thanks ahead of time for your advice and comments.
~Goose

If it were me, I'd mix 3/4 a glass of it with a 1/4 of a commercial light beer to add carbonation to your beer and kill the sweetness/bitterness a bit. Belgians blend all the time. Who knows, maybe it will taste great blended and a whole lot better than down the drain. I did that with a barley wine and now people love it.

 

[juronu]

Brewed a batch that had 7 lbs of dme and 1 oz hops back in August and temps were high, couldn't get the wort cooled and I pitched at too high of a temp also. Cracked one open last weekend and it was terrible. But, it was perfectly carbonated, and that is amazing to me because out of the 4 beers I've brewed so far, this last one wasn't over carbonated. Just going to be patient and hope it will be drinkable by Thanksgiving.

 

[GaryJohn]

I brewed a bourbon RIS last year. When I added the bourbon I think I shocked the yeast into dormancy (cuz of abv level) so the beer never carbonated. I kept it for a year and figured I'd just get rid of it eventually.

Anyways, I had this bright idea to use it in a bbq sauce marinade for some grilled ribs. OMG IT WAS DELICIOUS. So, even if the beer doesn't turn out don't toss it yet...it may still be useful!

 

[terrenum]

Hey! I am new in homebrewing but experienced winemaker (producing wine in France in Languedoc). Trying to better understand grain bill and yeast to build my own recipe.
I recently brew a clone of the Bam bière from Jolly pumpkins. Used the WL550 belgian saison yeast. Seems like I have quite a bit of phenolic components. Medicinal band-aid smells...I noticed that the Bam bière also has that profile but it is more sublte. Will it disappear overtime? or at least be less present?
Also, I brewed 10 gal of this beer; 5 gallon went in a carboy with no bugs and another 5 gallons with bretts like the recipe calls for. So far it seems the one with bugs has less phenolic...could the addition of brett have helped vs. the other batch? it is the only difference. They both fermented at 70-72C for primary and secondary....

Any feedback would be appreciated. thanks!

 

[ENS]

In Augsust I brewed an Oktoberfest. I tried to lager it by keeping in a water tub with ice bottles in it, but that didn't work so well. The temp was inconsistent between 50-60* for almost 2 weeks. I then racked it into a secondary. It had some off flavors. Couple weeks later I checked on it and could tell it was infected. I lost interest in it until now and checked it tonight and it's definitely infected. I tasted a sample and it is horrible, tastes like medicine, no beer flavor at all. The smell is pretty nasty too. I think this one is unfortunately unsalvagable. I'm still debating, but I don't feel like it is worth the time and effort, shelf space etc to bottle... can't imagine time healing these wounds. I will think about it tomorrow and make a decision. That is a lot of time and effort to dump a beer, but it's easier to dump a bucket than dump bottles.

 

[BasementBrewmistress]

Just wanted to say thanks for sharing your story, Revvy. I almost dumped my 3rd batch, a dry stout poser, but every time I convinced myself to do it, this thread came to mind. So I eventually racked it to a spare carboy and let it sit another few weeks. The other day I found the bung had come off and it was a little hazy...I decided right then and there to dump it, but got a whiff of toasty goodness. Gave it another week to see if it would get McNasty on me and it seemed fine. So today, I racked into my bottling bucket with some oak chips that've been soaking in whiskey. It's more of a low alcohol porter or brown ale, but admittedly the taste is rather smooth and toasty. Going to rack it into the keg after a few days.

Anyway thanks for driving home to us noobs how important it is to RDWHAHB.

 

[alanwelam]

When i was a new brewer, I dumped one of my early batches. It was a Milk Stout. I dumped it because I was in the process of buying a house and moving in. I had let the carboy sit for about 4-5 weeks without bottling. I thought there wouldn't be enough yeast to carbonate the beer. dump.

I shed tears now thinking I could have just repitched yeast along with the priming sugar. I will drink a beer tonight in memory of batches that could have been.

 

[paulster2626]

When i was a new brewer, I dumped one of my early batches. It was a Milk Stout. I dumped it because I was in the process of buying a house and moving in. I had let the carboy sit for about 4-5 weeks without bottling. I thought there wouldn't be enough yeast to carbonate the beer. dump.

I shed tears now thinking I could have just repitched yeast along with the priming sugar. I will drink a beer tonight in memory of batches that could have been.

Why would you have to repitch yeast?

 

[alanwelam]

If you secondary for too long, the yeast that is in suspension in the beer will have settled out. The advantage is that this adds clarity to the beer as it has had time to sit, and also some of the conditioning of higher alcohol beers can take place during this time. There won't be enough active yeast to properly carbonate your beer, so you can take another vial, pack, whatever of yeast and pitch it into the beer, stir it a little to mix the yeast in (avoid over stirring... oxidation) and then bottle. You'll have enough active yeast to carbonate the bottles.

 

[paulster2626]

If you secondary for too long, the yeast that is in suspension in the beer will have settled out. The advantage is that this adds clarity to the beer as it has had time to sit, and also some of the conditioning of higher alcohol beers can take place during this time. There won't be enough active yeast to properly carbonate your beer, so you can take another vial, pack, whatever of yeast and pitch it into the beer, stir it a little to mix the yeast in (avoid over stirring... oxidation) and then bottle. You'll have enough active yeast to carbonate the bottles.

I always thought if you just gave the bottom of the fermenter a bit of a scrape with the siphon that it would stir up enough to get the job done. Nothing radical, just move it about an inch or so on the bottom, and then leave it. I see a bit of cloud pass through for a few seconds, and then it's 100% clear again.

Maybe with lagers they need a little boost?

 

[Revvy]

If you secondary for too long, the yeast that is in suspension in the beer will have settled out. The advantage is that this adds clarity to the beer as it has had time to sit, and also some of the conditioning of higher alcohol beers can take place during this time. There won't be enough active yeast to properly carbonate your beer, so you can take another vial, pack, whatever of yeast and pitch it into the beer, stir it a little to mix the yeast in (avoid over stirring... oxidation) and then bottle. You'll have enough active yeast to carbonate the bottles.

Wrong.....unless it's been a year or more there is still plenty of Yeast still in suspension to do the job. Yo don't need to re-yeast if it's only been a few months or weeks. I've done 6 months aged beer without adding more yeast and they carbed just fine.

I always thought if you just gave the bottom of the fermenter a bit of a scrape with the siphon that it would stir up enough to get the job done. Nothing radical, just move it about an inch or so on the bottom, and then leave it. I see a bit of cloud pass through for a few seconds, and then it's 100% clear again.

Exactly, even for month long primaries I give it a rub to kick up some yeast, though it's probably not necessary for a month, but that's really all you need to do in most cases just kick up some of the yeast from the bottom.

 

[Grossy]

Wrong.....unless it's been a year or more there is still plenty of Yeast still in suspension to do the job. Yo don't need to re-yeast if it's only been a few months or weeks. I've done 6 months aged beer without adding more yeast and they carbed just fine.

Exactly, even for month long primaries I give it a rub to kick up some yeast, though it's probably not necessary for a month, but that's really all you need to do in most cases just kick up some of the yeast from the bottom.

Hey Revvy can you add to this. I Primary for a month then bottle for a month. So far I have never kicked up the trub from the bottom, in fact I avoid it like the plague. Doesn't the trub negatively effect the taste of the beer?

Also I have a Belgian (total disaster on brew day, OG 1.088) that has been conditioning for 45 days now. It's barely carbonated and way to sweet. Will aging it decrease the sweetness? If not what then?

 

[alanwelam]

Revvy... I do a lot of high gravity brewing, and have repitched for Belgians that I like to brew. Even my regular brews I try to push a little higher on ABV. By conditioning in the secondary longer, I can let things settle out better, achieve a lot higher clarity. I repitch yeast because the yeast that are there have been strained/killed by higher ETOH content, which can leave less available to carb when compared to a regular brew that has just been conditioned a week or two longer.

 

[BoA1967]

THX for this great thread!

 

[PrivateerZ]

Revvy's story reminds me of the Oktoberfest I brewed last September. After a week of primary and three weeks of secondary, my beer tasted like what I can only describe as "bitterscotch." And no, that's not a typo. It was just downright bad, but I couldn't bare to throw it out. Having done the secondary IN the keg, I left it in a corner and essentially forgot about it until my fiance asked me to move it or lose it, so I put it in the mini fridge.

Fast forward to two weeks ago, when a friend of mine who had also tried it with me initially, came over. I had nothing to drink and we figured we might as well see if anything good had come out of what I had already called a miserable failure.

Lo and behold, it tasted like a pretty decent Oktoberfest! Moreover, the F.G. must be somewhere in the neighborhood of 7-10%, because one pint of it keeps knocking us on our asses. The flavors were all there: malty, caramel, toffee, and even some light butterscotch. It even had a beautifully crystal clear reddish brown color to it.

So yeah, lesson learned! Aging is not always a bad thing!

 

[bottlebomber]

It's barely carbonated and way to sweet. Will aging it decrease the sweetness? If not what then?

When it fully carbonates it will seem less sweet.

 

[lamppa]

I made a batch of berliner that got fuit fly maggots in it due to open fermentation. How long should I let that age out?

 

[jonmohno]

I often have dropped my autosiphon to the bottom accidentally oh well dosnt ruin the beer or anything, i just think it would kickstart bottle conditioning a little though,that little bit isnt goint to effect the whole thing and besides it settles out.

With a bigger beer with more clearing time i would scrape the bottem( or top layer of the bottom some),pitching a whole vial of new yeast to bottle seems pricy and seems to defeat the purpose of a beer sitting longer to clear and it porbably wouldhave more yeast sediment at the bottom of the bottle anyway.Seems like a lot of yeast to pitch for just 5 oz of priming sugar when you can make a whole batch out of it.