NEIPA approach to different styles

[thehaze]

Hello.

Has any of you tried to make a Red NEIPA or a Black NEIPA? How will that work?

Or is it possible to brew say a high IBU Black IPA with lots of hops, but with a smooth mouthfeel?

I am thinking in brewing a Red IPA, hopping plenty and a soft water. ( 2:1 / CaCl2:MgSO4 )

Would it work or the flavours will turn muddled?

Thanks in advance.

 

[ProblemChild]

All of the red IPA's I have tried (and loved by the way) have been maltier and quite dry. Not sure how that would go.

I am sure that you could make a NEIPA that came out red.....

Interesting thought for both parts.

 

[Schemy]

I tried dry hopping a Red like I do my NE's and it was a fail. The high maltiness of the Red didn't let the hops come through. Its very muddled, and I'm going to make sure I choke down the 5 gallons as penance for being stupid.

 

[dyqik]

My local brewery makes a beer that looks a lot like an NEIPA - Battle Road 1775 Tavern Ale, which is hazy and pale orange, made with Styrian Golding hops and Westvleteren yeast. Unfortunately, it's their only interesting beer. I don't know if they are doing something that's very like what the NEIPA breweries are doing, but it fits with the outcome.

I'm going to brew an all cascade pale ale with 1318 and homegrown hops this weekend. I'll keep the total hops to 4-5 oz, but use an NEIPA grain bill, bitter with hopshot, whirlpool and high krausen hops only and no keg dry hops. This is just to see what happens. I'm also wondering what you get with an English IPA recipe using a NEIPA dry hop schedule.

 

[radwizard]

I've been pondering a Black NEIPA. It seems like it would be pretty straight forward using Midnight Wheat.
I haven't gotten around to it. I was just curious about it as well. I assume it would come across kind of strange with the hop choices people are using on NEIPA's (Super Tropical).

 

[thehaze]

I've been pondering a Black NEIPA. It seems like it would be pretty straight forward using Midnight Wheat.
I haven't gotten around to it. I was just curious about it as well. I assume it would come across kind of strange with the hop choices people are using on NEIPA's (Super Tropical).

I think it will be great.

I am also thinking of brewing a Black IPA, using Chocolate Wheat, Chocolate Rye and Chocolate Spelt, which I have great experiences with, some flaked oats for a smoother mouthfeel and CaraPils. Of course, some Caramel/Crystal is needed to balance the roastiness or at least this is what I believe.

As for the hops: Columbus, Simcoe, Chinook work fine in a dark roasty brew. But I have used Citra, Mosaic and Amarillo in Black IPAs before and it worked surprisingly well.

I would think Galaxy, El Dorado, Azacca, Denali, Ella, etc. would fit as good in there.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

I have a rye IPA that is quasi-New England style bottle-conditioning now. Trying to avoid the NEIPA oxidation issue, so we'll see how it turns out.

I look at the NEIPA as having three elements to translate across styles: (1) water profile-mouthfeel, (2) hop schedule, and (3) yeast (1318/Conan). I really like the concept of base bittering additions and then using late addition/whirlpool to bring out hop flavor and aroma without the bitterness - especially in my family, my lupulin threshold is a *lot* higher then theirs, so where I can appreciate the aspects of the bitterness, all they taste is astringency.

Grain bill is 35% Maris otter, 35% 2 row, 15% rye, 10% amber malt, 5% crystal 45. Added gypsum to balance out my hard water profile.

Hop additions were 0.5oz magnum as 60 minutes, and 1oz dry home-grown cascade (last year) at 20, then 16 ounces of wet cascade hops at 10, 5, 0, and over a 30min whirlpool. Dry-hopped another 1.5oz dry leaf cascade on fermentation day 3 (50% attenuation). Yeast is some Omega West Coast Ale I (Chico strain) since my LHBS was out of London ale III or Conan.

I have a couple of theories about NEIPAs oxidizing in the bottle, so this one may help me narrow down some of the factors, but I am probably tilting at windmills.

 

[Jwin]

I've done a black neipa (bneipa, or cdneipa?).
Capped the mash. 1318.
I did all centennial.
2oz at 60, then another 14 from 15 to WP, plus 2 oz centennial hophash, as well as another 2 in the dryhop.(11g)
I very much enjoy it. I wish I had added more, earlier in the boil to get a bit more AA in it.
I'm away from home, but can share when I get back.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I've done a black neipa (bneipa, or cdneipa?).
Capped the mash. 1318.
I did all centennial.
2oz at 60, then another 14 from 15 to WP, plus 2 oz centennial hophash, as well as another 2 in the dryhop.(11g)
I very much enjoy it. I wish I had added more, earlier in the boil to get a bit more AA in it.
I'm away from home, but can share when I get back.

You used 18 oz of hops? in a 5G batch?

I brew almost exclusively NEIPAs and I think my peak was 13 oz which was plenty.

 

[Jwin]

11g

 

[beerguyfrmsd]

Hello.

Has any of you tried to make a Red NEIPA or a Black NEIPA? How will that work?

Or is it possible to brew say a high IBU Black IPA with lots of hops, but with a smooth mouthfeel?

I am thinking in brewing a Red IPA, hopping plenty and a soft water. ( 2:1 / CaCl2:MgSO4 )

Would it work or the flavours will turn muddled?

Thanks in advance.

Anything is possible buddy, a hazy black IPA sounds good with alot of simcoe. WLP008 is what I use for Hazy brews, does not attenuate super dry and it does not flocculate like the other clean strains, leaving a estery fuller body hazy brew.

 

[Invertalon]

You used 18 oz of hops? in a 5G batch?

I brew almost exclusively NEIPAs and I think my peak was 13 oz which was plenty.

I just used 22oz in my latest NE DIPA, for 5gal.

Something like 4oz for boil additions, 5oz whirlpool, 5oz DH #1 and 8oz DH #2. Yes I adjust all my volumes so I fill an entire 5gal keg at the end.

Could use less, sure... But I've noticed my heavier hopped DIPA's just hold a fresh pungency, longer. Brewed a lot of em'. So I stick with my hopping rates that give me the results I like best. Plus, hops are quite cheap when bought in bulk, so it don't bother me.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I just used 22oz in my latest NE DIPA, for 5gal.

Something like 4oz for boil additions, 5oz whirlpool, 5oz DH #1 and 8oz DH #2. Yes I adjust all my volumes so I fill an entire 5gal keg at the end.

Could use less, sure... But I've noticed my heavier hopped DIPA's just hold a fresh pungency, longer. Brewed a lot of em'. So I stick with my hopping rates that give me the results I like best. Plus, hops are quite cheap when bought in bulk, so it don't bother me.

Maybe I'll give it a try. I'm getting really good hop flavor with my current recipes though. My buddies who regularly travel to the east coast and ship beers back to themselves are impressed. I did a side by side with mine, DDH Congress street and Doppleganger....mine are good, but I'm not quite getting the juiciness of those. Admittedly, it's a high bar, but that's my target.

 

[JordanKnudson]

I've done a black neipa (bneipa, or cdneipa?).
Capped the mash. 1318.
I did all centennial.
2oz at 60, then another 14 from 15 to WP, plus 2 oz centennial hophash, as well as another 2 in the dryhop.(11g)
I very much enjoy it. I wish I had added more, earlier in the boil to get a bit more AA in it.
I'm away from home, but can share when I get back.

11g

I'm not following the numbers here...from what I can tell, it's:

2oz @ 60 minutes
14oz @ 15 minutes ("another 14 from 15 to WP" ...???)
2oz hop hash @ 15 minutes
2oz hop hash @ dry hop

Then there's this 11g, which you reiterate, that seems to correspond to nothing...

What gives?

 

[ca_baracus]

I have a rye IPA that is quasi-New England style bottle-conditioning now. Trying to avoid the NEIPA oxidation issue, so we'll see how it turns out.

I look at the NEIPA as having three elements to translate across styles: (1) water profile-mouthfeel, (2) hop schedule, and (3) yeast (1318/Conan). I really like the concept of base bittering additions and then using late addition/whirlpool to bring out hop flavor and aroma without the bitterness - especially in my family, my lupulin threshold is a *lot* higher then theirs, so where I can appreciate the aspects of the bitterness, all they taste is astringency.

Grain bill is 35% Maris otter, 35% 2 row, 15% rye, 10% amber malt, 5% crystal 45. Added gypsum to balance out my hard water profile.

Hop additions were 0.5oz magnum as 60 minutes, and 1oz dry home-grown cascade (last year) at 20, then 16 ounces of wet cascade hops at 10, 5, 0, and over a 30min whirlpool. Dry-hopped another 1.5oz dry leaf cascade on fermentation day 3 (50% attenuation). Yeast is some Omega West Coast Ale I (Chico strain) since my LHBS was out of London ale III or Conan.

I have a couple of theories about NEIPAs oxidizing in the bottle, so this one may help me narrow down some of the factors, but I am probably tilting at windmills.

What are your theories, and what did you do to try to avoid oxidation? I’m limited to bottling right now and would like to brew this style. Did a Hop Hands clone that started turning brownish about a month after bottling (probably didn’t help that they were kept at warm temperatures).

 

[Jwin]

I'm not following the numbers here...from what I can tell, it's:

2oz @ 60 minutes
14oz @ 15 minutes ("another 14 from 15 to WP" ...???)
2oz hop hash @ 15 minutes
2oz hop hash @ dry hop

Then there's this 11g, which you reiterate, that seems to correspond to nothing...

What gives?

11 gallons

 

[mirthfuldragon]

What are your theories, and what did you do to try to avoid oxidation? I’m limited to bottling right now and would like to brew this style.

I had planned on brewing one but the hops are in the freezer because my kegs are full and I feared oxidizing it to the point of undrinkability. My rye IPA is bottle conditioning now - so far the results are lackluster, but that could be from a lot of factors. I didn't take any special precautions when bottling this batch, intentionally.

One theory that I have is that the oats are a major cause. Oats have a considerably higher fat content than barley and wheat: 11g/cup to 3-4g/cup comparatively. Oats also have a different breakdown of fat composition. Traditional oatmeal stouts are dark enough to hide any of the oxidation that is readily apparent in an NEIPA. So it is at least possible that the oats are causing the exaggerated oxidation in the NEIPA style.

Yeast could be the issue, with either Conan/London Ale III/Vermont Ale yeast being overly susceptible to oxidation. Since they don't flocculate well, staying in suspension instead of settling in the bottom could give the brown appearance and the yeast flavor interacting with the hop oils to kill the aroma. Kinda like drinking the dregs of a bottle-conditioned ale.

Then of course there is the hop oils and sheer amount of hops involved. I don't think we see this drastic level of oxidation in regular IPAs (even my Pliny clone at 16+ ounces in 5g didn't' turn brown after a month, and it will still pull the enamel off your teeth). Dogfishhead 120 actually ages well (different style, I know - but if hop oil oxidation is the problem, then DFH120 would be a textbook example of oxidation).

I'm probably wrong, but I think the oats are the major contributing factor. My pipeline is really full right now, so I'm not in a position to test it, but it's been rattling around in the back of my head for a few weeks now.