Need your opinion on something at work.

[Jeepaholic]

I am a assistant manager of a hardware store. In the Midwest we have been hit hard by some strong (for us) winter storms. I have always been to type to drive big Jeeps on and off road as a result I enjoy the challenge of driving in the deep snow. During the last 2 storms 2 of the other managers have not been able to get to work making it much harder on me and the store manager. When it comes to work I do whatever it takes to take care of my responsibility including getting to work when I am needed.

Is it too much to ask a person of responsibility to show up at work? (I'm not talking about a minimum wage hourly worker) The rumor is I will have my own store soon. I want to know where the line is. I feel it is the same as a person not coming in because its raining and all they have is a motorcycle and don't want to get wet. I say drive whatever you want, but have a plan in place to take care of your responsibilities. They have the option to spend the night at the store, or get a ride from somebody else. I was asked to take the head cashier to work witch I was happy to do. They feel it is no big deal even though as a hardware store these are very big days for us. We need to be open so people can get what they need for the storm.

What is your opinion on this? please vote.

 

[danbe]

If you are scheduled to be there , be there. Document a verbal warning. Then you tell them next time it happens they will get written up. Third time they are fired. Give them a time period, so after say 30 days they start all over. If they keep repeating this pattern every 30 days over and over you have all the documentation needed to not give them a raise or give them a poor annual review.

 

[Beernik]

I guess it depends on how bad the storm is.

Around SLC, 12 inches of snow and 30mph wind gusts is nature's way of double-dog daring you to drive to work. We had some pretty bad storms this winter including a morning commute with freezing rain. I made the 20 mile drive into the office in all but one of them and I drive a Prius.

The one storm I decided not to drive in, the roads were getting clogged with accidents at 6:30am. So I opted to telecommute instead.

 

[Airplanedoc]

Do these people work for you or are they coworkers? If they don't work for you, then its not your place to "coach" them. When you are the store manager, then you can try to make sure there is a plan in place to get them to work on time if you want.

 

[bluelakebrewing]

I guess it depends on how bad the storm is.

Around SLC, 12 inches of snow and 30mph wind gusts is nature's way of double-dog daring you to drive to work. We had some pretty bad storms this winter including a morning commute with freezing rain. I made the 20 mile drive into the office in all but one of them and I drive a Prius.

The one storm I decided not to drive in, the roads were getting clogged with accidents at 6:30am. So I opted to telecommute instead.

agreed. sorry but not everyone drives a big time hot shot jeep. it can be dangerous driving in conditions like that if you arent prepared or have necessary experience. How would you feel if someone was seriously injured or killed on there way to the hardware store. More important things in life bro. im all for morals but put yourself in other peoples shoes.

 

[Jeepaholic]

Do these people work for you or are they coworkers? If they don't work for you, then its not your place to "coach" them. When you are the store manager, then you can make sure there is a plan in place to get them to work on time if you want.

We are on the same level. I know it's not my place I have no intention to. I am talking about later in my career.

bluelakebrewing

I agree about not having a car that does well in the snow. As far as my "big time hot shot jeep" goes my daily driver is a bone stock Cherokee worth less than $3,000. If you don't feel comfortable driving in it there other options. I listed 2 of them in the original post. I know several managers that slept in their stores. You talk about the danger of driving, what about the family that has had the power go out at home but cant get fuel for there heater because nobody is there to open the store? Or the person cleaning the side walks, parking lots ect. that needs ice melt to make a safe environment?

Edit: as far as not being prepared why would you not be? You live in a area that it snows. You know it will snow, so if you are not prepared it is because you did not care enough to do so.

 

[nrbxbuev]

I made the 20 mile drive into the office in all but one of them and I drive a Prius.

 

[fuzzy2133]

Edit: as far as not being prepared why would you not be? You live in a area that it snows. You know it will snow, so if you are not prepared it is because you did not care enough to do so.

How often it snows and how bad it normally is needs to be taken into account. That is what I kept thinking. Now it comes to the storms severity and what their conditions are at their houses. If they are buried in that's a problem that would be ok not to be in for work. Like open the front door and the snow is 3/4 to the top!

 

[AussieBrewerInColorado]

My answer is pretty simple: If you're expected to work, unless there is a huge storm and your boss calls you to tell you that you don't have to come in, you be at work. Simple as that.

 

[Zuljin]

My dept is essential personnel. We are expected to make it in, "if at all possible." That's a big if. Most of us do, most of the time. I've not missed, yet. It has taken careful planning and driving. I've gotten up early to beat the rush and have the time. Not everyone has that option. We're a 24 hour facility. Some folks days start at different times.

We don't get blizzards here, but we do get snow, and even worse, ice. Roads have been closed. There is no plowing of neighborhoods. Only choice highways get treatment. Maybe the city will sand the main drags. Maybe.

We've a front wheel drive car and a rear wheel drive truck. One day it snowed and iced pretty bad, for here. I was off work but decided to try driving because it was the worst I'd seen. Neither vehicle could get more than half a block. The car got stuck at the end of the driveway. The truck slid into the curb after I nearly wrecked into the neighbor's truck. Said neighbor's kids helped us push everything back into the driveway. It was funny, but had that been a work day, I'd have called in.

I've a motorcycle too, and drove that in the snow around the neighborhood once. I would not try that all the way to work.

Now, if these folks are calling in every time it dusts out, that's a problem. If it's truly dangerous or even impassable, that's life on planet Earth. It's going to happen that in some parts of the country, at some times, you get stuck where you're at and you have to miss work or maybe stay at work.

I wonder what the ramifications would be if a company had a policy to discipline or fire an employee if they didn't come to work in truly inclement weather and an employee got killed or killed someone else trying to drive in anyway. If no criminal consequences, there's still civil court. And there's still the court of public opinion. Mom and Pop's Hardware would look pretty bad to the community if it were their company policy that contributed to deaths in the community.

 

[Enf0rc3r]

Such is life my friends. Try working as a supervisor in a unionized prison if you want to see a group of people who don't come to work.

 

[SharonaZamboni]

I have driven to and home from work in very bad weather, and at times my commute has been 30+ miles. There have been a couple times where my car was just not able to make it through snow and I had to turn back home. I drive through seven towns on my way to work, and there can be wide variations in snow accumulation and road conditions.

I prefer that people who are afraid, unskilled, or very new drivers stay home in poor conditions. Stay home with your bald tires and bad brakes, too. Their hardware store job is not worth the risk of injuring themselves or others.

If an employee genuinely can't get to work, say because their street hasn't been plowed, and they intend to come to work as soon as possible, a manager should be understanding of those issues.

 

[iowabrew]

How would you feel if someone was seriously injured or killed on there way to the hardware store. More important things in life bro. im all for morals but put yourself in other peoples shoes.

This.

 

[kombat]

If you are scheduled to be there , be there. Document a verbal warning.

Really? So everyone who wasn't in the office during Katrina or Sandy deserved to be written up? Come on, gimme a break, let's apply some common sense here. Of course it depends on the severity of the storm, and whether not it represents a pattern of behaviour for the employee.

Look at the OP's username: "Jeepaholic." Clearly, this is a guy who loves his Jeeps and lives within that off-roading culture. Good for him, we all need hobbies. 99% of the time, such vehicles are way overkill for driving conditions are are hulking, inefficient, gas-guzzling status symbols. Maybe one or two days a year there's a storm bad enough where 4WD and cartoon tires actually make a difference, and "Jeepaholic" gets to be the hero who can still drive during "Snowmageddon 2013." That doesn't make it reasonable for him to expect EVERYONE to drive such vehicles.

If it's bad enough that your employees can't get to work, then your customers can't either, so why not put the safety of your employees first and close up shop until the snowplows dig you out?

If your customers are making it in no problem, but your employees are calling in, then fine, I agree you've got a problem with some employees. But come on, let's use a little common sense here and not project our passion for overpriced dune buggies onto everyone else who prefers a more sensible vehicle.

 

[beergynt]

We don't get blizzards here, but we do get snow, and even worse, ice. Roads have been closed. There is no plowing of neighborhoods. Only choice highways get treatment. Maybe the city will sand the main drags. Maybe.

And, of course, there's the AT-ATs to worry about...

 

[CGVT]

They have the option to spend the night at the store,

Really? Dude, it's a hardware store. It's not a matter of national security.

There is no way to set a policy on this. If they are taking advantage of a situation then if needs to be addressed. If they truly can't get to work without owning a 4 wheel drive behemoth then there is no action to be taken

Give it the reasonable test. Would a reasonable person think that they should have made it into work? ( In this case, a reasonable person does not own a Jeep and live for days like this)

 

[iowabrew]

Really? Dude, it's a hardware store. It's not a matter of national security.

There is no way to set a policy on this. If they are taking advantage of a situation then if needs to be addressed. If they truly can't get to work without owning a 4 wheel drive behemoth then there is no action to be taken

Give it the reasonable test. Would a reasonable person think that they should have made it into work? ( In this case, a reasonable person does not own a Jeep and live for days like this)

+ this.

 

[headbanger]

It's simple really, they can either make it in or they can't. If you feel the need to discipline people once you are a store manager then I say go for it but don't be surprised when you get called on it.

And I'm sorry man but spending the night at the store? Do you really consider that to be a viable alternative and are you planning to pay overtime to the management employee who opts to do so in the interest of your store?

 

[Jayhem]

If the business is OPEN, the manager of said business has NO excuse not to make it to work.

"My car won't make it there in this weather" is not an acceptable excuse. You are the freakin MANAGER...your employees expect you to be there if they have to be there. As a manager you are their leader...they will do as you do so if you are late to work, don't show up, etc...what are the employees going to think?

 

[dkwolf]

You work in a hardware store. Will someone DIE if they don't make it in to work? Will the employees that do make it in mill about aimlessly without supervision? The answer to both is no. If you absolutely require a manager/supervisor to be on premise, it is YOUR duty as store manager to know what employees are able to make it in inclement weather, and ASK them to be on-call (requiring it gets into some pay issues) in case another manager can't make it in.

Better yet, are you PERSONALLY prepared to deal with the liability and guilt if you require your employees to come to work, and one of them gets in an accident? And the idea of requiring them to stay at the store is flat out LAUGHABLE. Unless you're offering to pay them overtime for the time they're NOT at home, taking care of their homes and their families needs during the storm. Frankly, if I worked for you, I'd tell you where to put it.

I see both sides of the coin. I work for a consulting engineering firm, and commute 30 miles one way to work. My daily driver is a Honda Accord. Not much snow-bustin capability. My other vehicle is a Silverado 1500. I've busted through snowdrifts over the hood with that. I *CAN* get to work through almost every storm we get in a typical winter. But the flip side is, I'm also an emergency responder, serving on the fire department, and getting called on to extricate people from severe accidents. And people need to ask themselves before pulling out of the driveway, "Is it worth it?" And quite frankly, unless you work in a medical service (hospitals, etc) or utility company, for the vast majority of people, the answer is no. NOBODY is going to die if you don't go to work. And any manager that writes you up for not coming in when travel is not advised needs to be re-taught management practices.

End of the day, my opinion is it's flat out stupid to expect people to come in during unsafe driving conditions if they don't feel comfortable. Let the plows get out and clear the major roads, and then try to get to work when you can.

 

[Jayhem]

5' snow drifts is one thing.

You need to spend a winter in the Mid-Atlantic states. Businesses here close down for 6" snow fall events. Schools cancel for a CHANCE of 1" of snowfall that never comes.

I still feel that if a business is open, the manager on duty needs to be there if physically possible.

 

[headbanger]

If the business is OPEN, the manager of said business has NO excuse not to make it to work.

"My car won't make it there in this weather" is not an acceptable excuse. You are the freakin MANAGER...your employees expect you to be there if they have to be there. As a manager you are their leader...they will do as you do so if you are late to work, don't show up, etc...what are the employees going to think?

Maybe in a perfect world but unfortunately this is actually real life and these managers you speak of have lives and family of their own, not just a job as a manager, which is all it is.. Just a job.

 

[Zuljin]

And, of course, there's the AT-ATs to worry about...

They do well in snow, though.

 

[turvis]

Every city needs AT-AT's to taxi around people to get to work. Unless there are rebels around in that case stay home.

 

[dkwolf]

I don't care if you're talking about Alaska or Alabama. Asking (requiring) employees to drive in conditions they are not comfortable in is arrogant, foolish, and irresponsible by any manager. The OP is in Missouri, and stated that the three storms in question were strong, even for their area.

1" of snow in the midwest, we don't even bat an eye. But we see that several times Every. Year. We're USED to it. Heck, they used to teach drivers ed in two parts - one summer, one winter. 1" of snow in an area that gets snow once a year - or even every other year, and which quickly melts, causes chaos, because drivers aren't used to it, and don't have their vehicles prepared for it.

I stand by my statements, a 'normal' storm for your area is one thing. An abnormally large one, you CANNOT expect all employees, regardless of position, to report for work.

 

[Jeepaholic]

Thank you for the replies,

I think it is funny to hear people talk about my big honking tires when I have said it is a bone stock jeep. As far as paying overtime if they had stayed (and remember it is a option not required) we are salary, there is no over time. I have worked a month strait where I'm at because I was told I had to. At Walmart when I worked there I was required to work 7 days a week for 7 weeks strait because we were behind in our remodel. This is just retail management if you don't like it find something else. Personalty I stay because I love my customers. Its not the bottom line. I have not made my bonus in 3 years and I am very sure I will not this year so I do not have anything personal to gain. Yes my customers were there every day, As I said they are the ones doing the clean up trying to make it safe for everybody else.

 

[Snisup]

I live in upstate NY. Crappy roads are pretty much the norm from November thru April. I drive a pos grand prix 20 miles to work each day. I have to make this decision at least once every other week during the winter.

We have a very liberal leave policy at my job so I usually just decide if it's worth it or not when I look at the roads in the morning. If schools are closed it's probably pretty bad, I'll call in. If it looks Ok, I'll give it a shot. Not worth getting hurt over though. Then again I'm not a manager, and if I were I wouldn't expect anyone to risk anything just because I did.

 

[aygov]

It's all relative to the size of the storm. If it's a dusting of snow and they don't come in then by all means discipline them, but if we're talking a storm that's making travel hazardous in your area then I would be more forgiving.

Having lived in MO for part of my life I'm well aware of the snow fighting capabilities common in the state. Most municipalities don't get enough snow to justify investing in a fleet of plows to keep streets passable during most snow events. Maybe Grain Valley has exemplary snow removal crews, but if you're living in an area that doesn't have much in the way of snow removal equipment I think it's a bit asinine to expect your workers to risk themselves, other people, and their vehicles to make it in to keep a hardware store open.

As far as your alternatives to driving, sure, if you have someone who has the means and is willing to ferry workers when the roads get bad then go ahead and do that. As far as expecting people to sleep at the store, well I'll tell you what how I'd respond if my manager told me I needed to sleep at work. How much OT do I get for sitting in an empty store by myself while my family is at home by themselves?

 

[dkwolf]

Thank you for the replies,

I think it is funny to hear people talk about my big honking tires when I have said it is a bone stock jeep. As far as paying overtime if they had stayed (and remember it is a option not required) we are salary, there is no over time. I have worked a month strait where I'm at because I was told I had to. At Walmart when I worked there I was required to work 7 days a week for 7 weeks strait because we were behind in our remodel. This is just retail management if you don't like it find something else. Personalty I stay because I love my customers. Its not the bottom line. I have not made my bonus in 3 years and I am very sure I will not this year so I do not have anything personal to gain. Yes my customers were there every day, As I said they are the ones doing the clean up trying to make it safe for everybody else.

Of the employees you seem to expect to volunteer their time and stay at the store, what are their home lives? Are they single, with no obligations at home, or do they have a wife and kids, and them staying at the store will force the wife to have to shovel the driveway and take care of the kids herself?

Trust me, being the type of manager that only thinks of the job, and fails to consider how your decisions and policies impact your employee's lives outside of work is 100% surefire guaranteed to make sure your employees hate you, and you WILL see it in your turnover rates.

 

[CGVT]

Trust me, being the type of manager that only thinks of the job, and fails to consider how your decisions and policies impact your employee's lives outside of work is 100% surefire guaranteed to make sure your employees hate you, and you WILL see it in your turnover rates.

And YOU will fail.

 

[Jeepaholic]

Trust me, being the type of manager that only thinks of the job, and fails to consider how your decisions and policies impact your employee's lives outside of work is 100% surefire guaranteed to make sure your employees hate you, and you WILL see it in your turnover rates.

And YOU will fail.

agreed!

This is why I started this thread. At this point we are talking morals more than anything. Growing up my dad would have never called in that's what I saw and I have always held myself too. I am a very personal manager, I do care greatly for my employees, In fact I just recently loaned a few hundred dollars to a dept. manager that is going through a rough divorce until he can pay me back when he gets his tax refund.

I will agree that under these circumstances it would be unreasonable to coach them. I can not hold a person to a standard just because I hold my self to the same.

 

[kombat]

I can not hold a person to a standard just because I hold my self to the same.

Now hang on a second. You don't get to play the self-sacrificing hero card and imply that you drive a Jeep out of a sense of responsibility to your employer when you've already admitted that off-roading is one of your hobbies.

In your first post, you said:

I feel it is the same as a person not coming in because its raining and all they have is a motorcycle and don't want to get wet. I say drive whatever you want, but have a plan in place to take care of your responsibilities.

So you're comparing someone who skips work due to rain because all they drive is a motorcycle is the same as someone who skips work due to snow because all they drive is a (regular, non-Jeep, non-4WD) car. I don't think that's fair at all.

It just so happens that 4x4-ing is one of your passions. That has a fortuitous overlap with getting to work during particularly inclement winter weather. But that doesn't mean it's fair to expect EVERYONE to shell out the kind of money it takes to drive such a vehicle, just to ensure they can get to work the 1 or 2 days a year where you get an extremely heavy snowfall.

Summary: Don't claim you drive your vehicle out of some virtuous sense of "duty" to your employer, and call others less dedicated than you, when the truth is you drive your Jeep because you ENJOY it.

 

[Goofynewfie]

Really? Dude, it's a hardware store. It's not a matter of national security.

There is no way to set a policy on this. If they are taking advantage of a situation then if needs to be addressed. If they truly can't get to work without owning a 4 wheel drive behemoth then there is no action to be taken

Give it the reasonable test. Would a reasonable person think that they should have made it into work? ( In this case, a reasonable person does not own a Jeep and live for days like this)

+1
as far as sleeping at the store, are you supplying them with meals, place to take a shower, somewhere to sleep other than of floor, etc? what about if they need medications on a regular schedule eg. Insulin

 

[Jeepaholic]

When did i say i was a self sacrificing hero. I have already stated drive whatever you want, just have a plan to get to work. like I said earlier I would have been happy to of picked him up. one of the sayings that has helped me the most in life is.

A failure to plan is a plan to fail.

But I have already stated that I have changed my mind on this. I don't drive a jeep just to get to work. Back when i was In high school I never missed a day of work due to snow and that was in a Camaro.

 

[Jeepaholic]

I'm wondering why the attacks on me? I asked a simple question and had a poll in place. all you had to do is vote. Truth is I don't care what you guys think of me as I will never meet you. but still I don't understand when I came here specifically to help change my mind. if I had wanted reassurance I would have posted On a different fourm.

 

[Goofynewfie]

Mine is not meant as an attack, I am legitamitely curious, what do you have for the people who choose to spend the night as far as food and other things go. you asked me to come in, sleep on the floor and go hungry, no way.
reasonable place to sleep, a meal,I'm reasonably comfortable then we can discuss it

 

[Beernik]

I think it is funny to hear people talk about my big honking tires when I have said it is a bone stock jeep.

I've found most of the time it's not what you drive, it's how you drive. I've driven a Civic through a near white-out ground blizzard and been fine. I've also rolled a Wrangler because an unexpected patch of wind blown snow on the road.

4WD and snowtires are very nice to have. But they aren't everything.

Sure, sometimes my 30 minute commute turns into a 2 hour commute. But if I was too scared to drive in the snow, I wouldn't have left my neighborhood for half of January and most of February. If it wasn't falling from sky, the wind was blowing from the wheat fields onto the roads.

 

[TyTanium]

Move the store to Florida. Problem solved.

 

[Yellowirenut]

only once I have told the boss that I was not coming into work during a snow storm. I drive a company work van. He informed me because my occupation that I WAS coming to work. I repair commercial HVAC. I then called my clients i was to visit that day. All offices and businesses where closed. I then contacted my boss and told him that all my clients had closed and found no reason to end up in a ditch going somewhere that was closed. He finally agreed it was best to stay home. As all the other employees had also called in.

Guess I am saying I took it upon myself to ensure my clients would be ok in order to keep my own ass home. If i would had blindly followed his orders I most likely had ended up in the ditch.
Icing on the cake is that his (my boss) wife got stuck in there own driveway that day.

 

[SmokeNbrew]

Simply stated, it's a judgement call. I realize Im restating the obvious, but thats the very nature of management. A position which relies on intuition, and thats what separates one manager from the next and something that can't be taught through an employee handbook.

With my business (family), I realize in inclemate weather some employees just aren't going to show up. Im not typically one of 'em, but my interest in the company is different than theirs. These circumstances only happen a few times a year...I expect it and generally plan for it. It affects my operation, but so is entire area. Not just me. Not the end of the world, you just make the best of it.

Now if the school busses are running and that 'certain' employee (we all have one) is calling off due to weather, then it may be possible they're walking a line of dereliction. However, weather is the least of your problems with them.

my .02