Need Ideas For an HLT Stirrer.

[slayer021175666]

I just got into electric brewing and I notice I have to stir my HLT all the time to keep temps consistent from the bottom to the top of the kettle. I would like a cheap and easy solution to stir it constantly. I have seen electric motor stirrers, circulating with pumps (I DO NOT want any pumps right now) and even guys who say an aquarium air pump with the outlet tube dropped to the bottom of the HLT. The aquarium pump sounds cheap and easy but, how well will it really work? I would consider a buy it and install it option too as long as its cheap and easy. Don't want to spend much more than $30 bucks on this. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

 

[slayer021175666]

I just got into electric brewing and I notice I have to stir my HLT all the time to keep temps consistent from the bottom to the top of the kettle. I would like a cheap and easy solution to stir it constantly. I have seen electric motor stirrers, circulating with pumps (I DO NOT want any pumps right now) and even guys who say an aquarium air pump with the outlet tube dropped to the bottom of the HLT. The aquarium pump sounds cheap and easy but, how well will it really work? I would consider a buy it and install it option too as long as its cheap and easy. Don't want to spend much more than $30 bucks on this. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

 

[slayer021175666]

Eh?

 

[tinoespinosa69]

Do you want to agitate the HOT water in your HLT to avoid temperature stratification? Maybe you can use the follwoing, but not sure it will stand for High Temp.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UA7NQR...olid=2LDS2G1HWWZ7S&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

 

[Jtvann]

Just looked it up and someone left a review for brewing purposes. They’ve used it in 170 degree water successfully.

I’d considered the same for my HLT, but given that the temp probe in mine is at the bottom, where water is being drawn from, and sparse water temp isn’t nearly as critical to be exact as mash temps, I questioned the need.

Close enough seems good enough for me in HLT temps.

 

[tinoespinosa69]

@Jtvann Are you using a HERMS in your HLT? If so, you need to verify the Temp is the almost the same in all the water volume (no a big variation between the bottom and top volume) to have a proper heat transfer to the wort or water inside the HERMS coil

 

[Jtvann]

Nope, not using herms. I use rims. Only use the HLT for heating fly sparge water.

Good point when considering herms though.

 

[shop-dogs]

I made a stirrer for my electric HLT, it's an AC gearmotor from surplus center mounted to the lid with a propeller shaft mounted to the motor. I picked a motor with about 60rpm, something like this if I remember right:

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Elect...t-AC-1-30-HP-Shaded-Pole-Gearmotor-5-1373.axd
The motor isn't rated to run continuously so I have a switch also mounted to the lid and run the stirrer periodically for 5-10 seconds as the water is heating.

The propeller shaft is probably the hardest part depending on what you have access to, I made all the submerged parts from aluminum or stainless steel. I think I bought an aluminum fan blade from McMaster Carr. I can try to post pictures later if there is interest.

 

[slayer021175666]

Yesterday, I tested the water temp at the top and at the bottom of the HTL. Without stirring by hand and just letting it heat up still and calm, it is only a 2 degree difference. Now, I'm wondering if I could just set my average temp to the middle of that 2 degree difference and forget about it. Any thoughts?

 

[slayer021175666]

I'd like to see the pics. Thank You. ALso, 60rpm seems a little low. May I ask what size your HTL is?

 

[shop-dogs]

HLT is probably around 8 gallons. the motor might be 80 or 100rpm or so.

 

[CanAm]

The temperature in mine also stratifies. I use a long spoon and stir it twice when my temp controller shows the set point. After the second stir it’s at/nearly at the set point

 

[CanAm]

Spoon: Stainless Steel Spoon, 24''

Or maybe a mash paddle: Brewer's Best 28'' Maple Mash Paddle

 

[slayer021175666]

Thank You, CanAm.
I tested it and found, its only a 2 or 2.5 degree difference from bottom to top. I was wondering if I can just assume after its all in the MLT, it would be an even average and just calculate for that. Now, you just said you stir twice after the pid shows your target temp. For one thing: why stir twice? Second: My temp gauge is adjustable in height because its just a probe on a wire. I set it right at the level of the weldless thermometer which is about 3 inches from the bottom. What if the hotter temp at the top mixes into the cooler temp at the bottom and overshoots the target temp?
Or, should I move the probe up to measure the hotter temp at the top and then stir so the element will kick on and bring it all up to the target temp?

 

[sibelman]

If feasible, consider recirculating.

 

[bracconiere]

Don't want to spend much more than $30 bucks on this.

HLT? sparge water? so you're saying you don't want to spend more then $30? i wouldn't worry.

 

[slayer021175666]

The hot liquor tank makes my strike water and my sparge water. I guess I don't understand what you're saying.

 

[passedpawn]

I just got into electric brewing and I notice I have to stir my HLT all the time to keep temps consistent from the bottom to the top of the kettle. I would like a cheap and easy solution to stir it constantly. I have seen electric motor stirrers, circulating with pumps (I DO NOT want any pumps right now) and even guys who say an aquarium air pump with the outlet tube dropped to the bottom of the HLT. The aquarium pump sounds cheap and easy but, how well will it really work? I would consider a buy it and install it option too as long as its cheap and easy. Don't want to spend much more than $30 bucks on this. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

Yes, it's a pump. But its 12VDC and only $26.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01G305PK...colid=YEOGXPFLHR9S&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

 

[slayer021175666]

Thanks passedpawn, That looks pretty good to me. Tell me how you would set it up, please.

 

[bracconiere]

The hot liquor tank makes my strike water and my sparge water. I guess I don't understand what you're saying.

hmm, i was saying, sparge water temp isn't THAT important. and strike water, don't you dough in when it hits strike temp immediatly? i'm not sure i understand your brew setup?

 

[passedpawn]

Thanks passedpawn, That looks pretty good to me. Tell me how you would set it up, please.

I have a control panel. I'd plug the pump's power supply into a outlet on my panel, and wire the outlet power to one of the 120V legs of the HLT element. That way, when the element is on, the pump is on.

I don't have one of these pumps, but I know others here on this forum do. Maybe one of them will comment. Looks like it is difficult to prime, so you'll want it mounted at the base of the HLT (or below). Or maybe mounted directly onto the HLT output port if you have one. To help with the priming, put a small petcock on the output of it, so the output can be opened to allow gravity to pull the water through the pump. Or, you could look into a primer bulb. I don't know of any that are "food safe"/silicone. I'd probably just use the rubber one, but I know some people are funny about that.

 

[tracer bullet]

I've got one of the pumps shown, oft described as a "solar" pump. I use it when heating my strike water, it seems to work well and handle ~ 165-ish temps OK. I use it to help ensure my strike water is at temp by, of course, recirculating that water in the mash tun while I heat it with an immersion heater. I was seeing > 5 degree differences in spots in the tun without it recirculating and so I considered that to be worth fixing.

For sparge water, anything in the neighborhood works for me too. I shoot for 168 but if I'm off a little, or even a lot as long as it's in the cooler direction - eh, I'm good. Mash out temp seems to be a nice thing to shoot for, but something I no longer worry about.

 

[bruce_the_loon]

Stainless steel paint stirrer from Home Depot, low speed 12V DC motor from one of the internet suppliers and a suitable shaft coupler. You don't need high torque, so you should get one for $10-$15 dollars. Total cost should be under $30.

 

[tracer bullet]

I agree, but I will say from having made my own stirrer (to cool the wort after boiling), that getting a motor mounted onto a lid, finding said coupler, and etc. are actually more work than they sound like. Lids tend to be sloped, motor mounts have to be made even if they are just wood, couplers may need to have multiple diameters on each end and still can be wobbly, and so forth. Once I set out to actually do it, there was more work than expected.

 

[slayer021175666]

Would I pull from the bottom of the HLT and return it to the top? Any need to cause a whirlpool in the HLT or is the exchange of water from the bottom to the top all that is needed?

 

[passedpawn]

Would I pull from the bottom of the HLT and return it to the top? Any need to cause a whirlpool in the HLT or is the exchange of water from the bottom to the top all that is needed?

Yea, that bottom-to-top is all you need. I used to see huge (> 30 deg) differences between below and above the element. But I now use a pump and it's minimal.

 

[CanAm]

why stir twice?

My temp probe is fixed four inches from the bottom and I don’t drain the whole volume. It’s 15 gallons on 240 volts.

Stirring the first time drops the temp 3 or 4 degrees. I stir until the temp stops dropping, about 20 seconds. It takes a couple minutes to come up to the set point. The second 10 second stir may be unnecessary but gives piece of mind that the temperature is uniform.

 

[slayer021175666]

CanAm,
Ah. Well, that makes total sense. I've been gravity feeding everything for now and I'm tired of walking around the sink and bar area and climbing a step stool to stir it. It has occured to me though; If I get a pump (already ordered one today) to circulate the HLT, I may as well position the HLT at the same level as the MLT and pump the HLT water into it. Negating the need to walk around and climb to stir! Its a Catch 22. Use pump for both, I guess!

 

[esdill]

I installed a tee fitting near the bottom of my HLT and added one of those small 12V pumps to the tee. The pump output runs through a hose back to the top of the HLT, this constantly recirculates the water in the HLT. The other end of the tee has a fitting for a digital thermometer so I can see at a glance the temperature of the recirculating water. You could just as easily add the tee at the existing water outlet and install the pump there (I already had a tee there for the water outlet and the probe for the PID which is controlling the heating element, and two tees would have been a lot of weight, thus I installed the tee for the pump in a different location).

 

[HopSing]

Stainless steel paint stirrer from Home Depot, low speed 12V DC motor from one of the internet suppliers and a suitable shaft coupler. You don't need high torque, so you should get one for $10-$15 dollars. Total cost should be under $30.

Exactly what I'm planning, except I will use a stainless mash paddle cut to length. I know the mash paddle is completely food safe and should provide plenty of movement at 100 RPM. My plan is to use this at flameout to keep wort moving over my immersion chiller. None of my kettles are ported, so using a pump to recirculate is more difficult.

Here's the parts. I'll likely need to reduce the diameter of the mash paddle handle to fit the coupler. I also plan to build a mount that will slide over the side of the kettle so I can use it on all of my kettles.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072R57C56/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_2?smid=A18IHNL4DD28Y&psc=1https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TTH283Z/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_3?smid=AGOSLUO29ZUJ2&psc=1https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N25GA98/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I think I have a 12v power supply in stock, but if not, this is the one I'll get. It can lower the voltage, which will lower the RPM. It also has an adapter to make connecting it to the motor simple.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N7RS0NG/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_1?smid=A2WETDVOSZN7JY&psc=1
~HopSing.