Need advice on connecting large LP tank to burners, please

[funnycreature]

The house I recently moved into has a nice 100 gal LP tank that is just waiting to be put to use in brewing. It was hooked up to a BBQ on the patio and also has a connection on the inside of the house, most likely for indoor heating (but I'm not sure).
I purchased all the connectors that I needed to (physically) connect the hose that was attached to the BBQ, to the Bayou burners. However, when I fired up the burner all I got was a pathetic little flame. Some may already say "D'oh, you need [this and that]!"; and that's exactly the advice I'm looking for.
I already tried hooking up the burner without the 10 PSI regulator normally attached to the gas hose. It worked a bit better but still probably only 1-20% of the output I get from 20# tanks.
I am not at all familiar how all these regulators work so I took some pictures for those who want to help:

Propane tank label

Primary regulator (on tank)

Secondary regulator (after this the lines split into the one going into the house and to the BBQ)

I'd appreciate any input even if it's just "you have to get a professional plumber to do that for ya".

Cheers and bottoms up!

 

[The10mmKid]

You are sure it has propane in it, right!

With the tank being warm by the sun or air, you can feel the approximate liquid level on the outside of the tank.

If the regulators were setup for a residential furnace (~75,000btu) or a grill (~50,000btu), they should run a Bayou just fine.

There should be online instructions on how to adjust the regulators. My only advice there is to count the turns from where they are now in case you have to go back.

'da Kid

 

[mswebb]

In my opinion, you will need a certified gas worker (stove installer, etc). Since your brewing setup will likely have it's own regulators you will need an straight line from the tank to the brew setup with no regulators in between. It's doable but will cost you some for the certified work and materials.

 

[herc1354]

The red regulator on the tank reduces the tank pressure to a constant 10psi, that feed the big green regulator which regulars the pressure further to 11" WC, which is about 1/2psi. In order for your burners to work you will need an appropriate orifice for low pressure LP, also ensure the burner will operate on low pressure LP. Working with LP is not that big if a deal, but like anything there is a right way and the wrong way, all joints need to be sealed with appropriate plumbers dope or tape then leak checked.

The high pressure regulators on big tanks like yours are generally good for about a million BTU, and the low pressure regulators about 500k BTU's, so your regulators should be good. Some local propane companies will be more than happy to assist you, I know mine is, while others not so much, it may be worth having your propane supplier come out and give you a hand.

From what I understand LP tank pressure is the same regardless of BBQ tanks or commercial 200+ gallon tanks.


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[funnycreature]

You are sure it has propane in it, right!

With the tank being warm by the sun or air, you can feel the approximate liquid level on the outside of the tank.

If the regulators were setup for a residential furnace (~75,000btu) or a grill (~50,000btu), they should run a Bayou just fine.

There should be online instructions on how to adjust the regulators. My only advice there is to count the turns from where they are now in case you have to go back.

'da Kid

Yeah, the tank is on and has a whooping 40+ gallons left. I'm not sure I actually can adjust anything...

In my opinion, you will need a certified gas worker (stove installer, etc). Since your brewing setup will likely have it's own regulators you will need an straight line from the tank to the brew setup with no regulators in between. It's doable but will cost you some for the certified work and materials.

I am almost leaning towards getting a pro to help me with it since gas is nothing to mess around with...

The red regulator on the tank reduces the tank pressure to a constant 10psi, that feed the big green regulator which regulars the pressure further to 11" WC, which is about 1/2psi. In order for your burners to work you will need an appropriate orifice for low pressure LP, also ensure the burner will operate on low pressure LP. Working with LP is not that big if a deal, but like anything there is a right way and the wrong way, all joints need to be sealed with appropriate plumbers dope or tape then leak checked.

The high pressure regulators on big tanks like yours are generally good for about a million BTU, and the low pressure regulators about 500k BTU's, so your regulators should be good. Some local propane companies will be more than happy to assist you, I know mine is, while others not so much, it may be worth having your propane supplier come out and give you a hand.

From what I understand LP tank pressure is the same regardless of BBQ tanks or commercial 200+ gallon tanks.


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Thanks herc! I actually talked to the propane supplier and they basically said there's nothing they can/will do [they were very nice though and tried to hook me up with gas plumbers].
Would you mind giving me a few more details about what the right orifices and/or burners are? I have the Bayou classic SQ14 (link) that I use the most. Aren't jet burners low pressure? I've read that they are not as easy to regulate and are more suitable for on/off applications [which would be OK since I only use them to boil or heat the strike/sparge water].many thanks!

 

[brew_ny]

I run my SP 10 Bayou burner off a 100 pound I just hook my regulator that came with the burner to the tank with one of these

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230747032025?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


do the same with the gas grill

all the best

S_M

 

[funnycreature]

I run my SP 10 Bayou burner off a 100 pound I just hook my regulator that came with the burner to the tank with one of these

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230747032025?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


do the same with the gas grill

all the best

S_M

If nothing else works I might have to skip the secondary regulator that's attached to the house and use something like this. I'm glad that there seems to be more than one option!

 

[The10mmKid]

Those orifices are plenty big:

http://www.andersonforrester.com/orifice-capacities

'da Kid

I still would not be opposed to you turning the pressure adjustments under the cap on the regulators. Turn in or out until it stops. Turn back the exact number of turns and see if there is any change.

 

[herc1354]

Yeah, the tank is on and has a whooping 40+ gallons left. I'm not sure I actually can adjust anything...







I am almost leaning towards getting a pro to help me with it since gas is nothing to mess around with...







Thanks herc! I actually talked to the propane supplier and they basically said there's nothing they can/will do [they were very nice though and tried to hook me up with gas plumbers].

Would you mind giving me a few more details about what the right orifices and/or burners are? I have the Bayou classic SQ14 (link) that I use the most. Aren't jet burners low pressure? I've read that they are not as easy to regulate and are more suitable for on/off applications [which would be OK since I only use them to boil or heat the strike/sparge water].many thanks!

Yes most if not all jet burners are low pressure LP.

Are you using any kind of automation to tun your burners on or off, if not there is no reason to worry about low pressure LP.


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[funnycreature]

Yes most if not all jet burners are low pressure LP.

Are you using any kind of automation to tun your burners on or off, if not there is no reason to worry about low pressure LP.


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Nope, it's all manual labor! However, I'm wondering if it's better to have the plumbing redone instead of buying new burners. We also want to run our small Weber grill off the tank, and it has the same issues as the Bayou burners. I looked at the connections yesterday but haven't tried to change anything or adjust the pressure regulator.

 

[funnycreature]

UPDATE:
I think I know what I want to try next. I actually looked at the manuals for each regulator and here's my plan: Connect the yellow gas hose that feeds into the secondary regulator directly to the shut-off valve that then connects to the appliances. I just hope the connectors are all the correct size.

 

[TripleTap]

I recently overcame a similar issue. I have a 500 gallon propane tank that is regulated at the tank and again as it enters the house. My house pressure is set to 13" WC. This is adequate pressure for your burner. I am running two Blichmann burners on a top tier setup. I added an additional regulator as a fail safe, regulators can fail. I have that one at 10" WC. After that I needed to drill out to the orifices to .41. According to a pressure chart, 10" WC at the diameter should provide the 72,000 btu rated power. I think I am pretty close.

a reputable plumber should be able to tune a regulator and drill an orifice to tune your burner.

Keep in mind your burner was prepared for a hi pressure 20lb tank regulated down to likely 5 psi or so. Then further restricted with a small orifice. I

 

[Bobby_M]

The primary pressure of 10psi is great for long runs through smaller pipe. If your burner needs low pressure, but you want to set it up 50 feet away, you're better off sending it over there at 10psi and bringing it down to low pressure at the usage point. I don't know what the pipe sizes we're talking about but it's something like 3/8 vs 1".

 

[funnycreature]

I recently overcame a similar issue. I have a 500 gallon propane tank that is regulated at the tank and again as it enters the house. My house pressure is set to 13" WC. This is adequate pressure for your burner. I am running two Blichmann burners on a top tier setup. I added an additional regulator as a fail safe, regulators can fail. I have that one at 10" WC. After that I needed to drill out to the orifices to .41. According to a pressure chart, 10" WC at the diameter should provide the 72,000 btu rated power. I think I am pretty close.

a reputable plumber should be able to tune a regulator and drill an orifice to tune your burner.

Keep in mind your burner was prepared for a hi pressure 20lb tank regulated down to likely 5 psi or so. Then further restricted with a small orifice. I

Would you mind elaborating on where and how to drill the orifice? I have absolutely no idea where to begin... And my burners are HIGH PRESSURE so low pressure won't work, right?

The primary pressure of 10psi is great for long runs through smaller pipe. If your burner needs low pressure, but you want to set it up 50 feet away, you're better off sending it over there at 10psi and bringing it down to low pressure at the usage point. I don't know what the pipe sizes we're talking about but it's something like 3/8 vs 1".

I assume the ID of the hose is less than 1/2" so maybe 3/8" since the thread is 1/2". It might also be 1/2" but definitely not more. However, my burner is HIGH PRESSURE.

 

[Bobby_M]

Ok, so first thing I'd try is taking a tap just post 10psi reg and hooking it to your burner and see how it burns. How far away do you need to run?

 

[funnycreature]

Ok, so first thing I'd try is taking a tap just post 10psi reg and hooking it to your burner and see how it burns. How far away do you need to run?

That was my plan, I just need to see if the threads are all the right size. I don't need to run far, less than 20 ft I'd say.

 

[TripleTap]

Would you mind elaborating on where and how to drill the orifice? I have absolutely no idea where to begin... And my burners are HIGH PRESSURE so low pressure won't work, right?

Perhaps a call to your plumber is in order. My understand is that High pressure means to hook to a high pressure tank. and it regulates it down. 10PSI is an absurdly high gas pressure for a burner. I worked with my plumber. He has a set of calibrated drill bits and we were able to match the orifice and pressure to get to our desired btu.. I wanted to bump it a little, but he declined! I think it will work and will save you money over time by having propane delivered vs exchanging the little tanks.

 

[funnycreature]

Perhaps a call to your plumber is in order. My understand is that High pressure means to hook to a high pressure tank. and it regulates it down. 10PSI is an absurdly high gas pressure for a burner. I worked with my plumber. He has a set of calibrated drill bits and we were able to match the orifice and pressure to get to our desired btu.. I wanted to bump it a little, but he declined! I think it will work and will save you money over time by having propane delivered vs exchanging the little tanks.

The regulators that I have for my burners are all 10 PSI. I have one that I can regulate and another one that is fixed and I regulate the pressure via pin valves. I purchased a pin valve and hope (expect?) that the regulator fixed at 10 PSI at the tank in combination with the pin valve will act like the one burner I have set up. If nothing works I'll call the plumber!

 

[mblanks2]

OK, I apologize up front if I offend anyone but here goes.
The regulator that you have as the primary from your tank is high pressure. It is 10PSI. The pressure in the tank fluctuates with temperature and exposure. That is the reason for the regulator, it regulates the pressure of what is delivered down stream.
The secondary regulator is for the low pressure appliances that you have in your home, i.e. furnace, stove, water heater, etc. 11" W.C. (Water Column) and as stated above is the equivalent of approximately 1/2 PSI.
The burners you have are high pressure and will not run off the existing low pressure coming into the home. 10 PSI is NOT an absurdly high pressure. High pressure appliances are set to run on 5 PSI up to as high as 40 PSI depending on the regulator and design. Most gas grills run off high pressure gas except maybe Holland and Weber, but their regulators do connect to high pressure gas and regulate to their design parameters.
DO NOT DRILL ORIFICES. It's firstly unsafe and secondly against all building codes. Quite frankly if a plumber were to drill orifices he should loose his license. All drill bits are calibrated and there is no manufacturer that recommends drilling orifices. You are altering the original design of the appliance as it was engineered and it will void all UL Listings.
If you want to make your burners work with your current set-up you will need to connect after the first regulator and before the second. This will supply the high pressure gas that you need to the location that your burner will be located.
I would suggest that you install a shut off valve at the tank between the regulators for this connection as well as one where your burner will be located.
I would seriously consider seeking professional assistance from an HVAC Technician or gas fitter. We do this type of work for a living and are trained to properly install gas lines and leak test them. Check the credentials of the person that you have do this for you and preferably use a company with insurance that will back any problems that could occur. The work is not terribly complex but the mistakes that can be made are not worth what the end result could be.
Gas is no joke!

 

[TripleTap]

No Offense taken. Glad someone with gas knowledge chimed in. To be clear...Blichmann recommended drilling orifices to meet our needs (within reason I suspect). There was a good line of communication between the pipefitter, Blichmann and myself. I can not say enuf the value my pumbing guy added. The result is I believe I have a safe good working quality setup.

 

[funnycreature]

OK, I apologize up front if I offend anyone but here goes.
The regulator that you have as the primary from your tank is high pressure. It is 10PSI. The pressure in the tank fluctuates with temperature and exposure. That is the reason for the regulator, it regulates the pressure of what is delivered down stream.
The secondary regulator is for the low pressure appliances that you have in your home, i.e. furnace, stove, water heater, etc. 11" W.C. (Water Column) and as stated above is the equivalent of approximately 1/2 PSI.
The burners you have are high pressure and will not run off the existing low pressure coming into the home. 10 PSI is NOT an absurdly high pressure. High pressure appliances are set to run on 5 PSI up to as high as 40 PSI depending on the regulator and design. Most gas grills run off high pressure gas except maybe Holland and Weber, but their regulators do connect to high pressure gas and regulate to their design parameters.
DO NOT DRILL ORIFICES. It's firstly unsafe and secondly against all building codes. Quite frankly if a plumber were to drill orifices he should loose his license. All drill bits are calibrated and there is no manufacturer that recommends drilling orifices. You are altering the original design of the appliance as it was engineered and it will void all UL Listings.
If you want to make your burners work with your current set-up you will need to connect after the first regulator and before the second. This will supply the high pressure gas that you need to the location that your burner will be located.
I would suggest that you install a shut off valve at the tank between the regulators for this connection as well as one where your burner will be located.
I would seriously consider seeking professional assistance from an HVAC Technician or gas fitter. We do this type of work for a living and are trained to properly install gas lines and leak test them. Check the credentials of the person that you have do this for you and preferably use a company with insurance that will back any problems that could occur. The work is not terribly complex but the mistakes that can be made are not worth what the end result could be.
Gas is no joke!

Thank you so much for your input! I will do as you said, but of course I will need to have the right fittings to connect the shutoff valve to the regulator. I will make sure it doesn't leak because as you said, gas is no joke!!!