Need a bit of Cider help

[AsylumBrewWorks]

Hey All

I am on my third batch of cider and all three have come out having a hard chemically taste. I dont know what I am doing wrong. Can anyone help me out?

in all three cases I used store bought pasteurized cider. with Wyeast 3068. After fermentation I let in sit for another two weeks then Kegged and force carbonated it.

I am using a Fast ferment conical fermenter.

I am going to give it another go next weekend so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Kirkwooder]

How long and at what temp did you ferment?

 

[AsylumBrewWorks]

It fermented for about one week three days actively fermenting and then let it sit on the yeast for the rest of the week. Then I removed the collection ball cleaned and sanitized it then put it back on and let it go another two weeks. All at between 68 and 70 degrees

 

[Kirkwooder]

I generally let all my ciders ferment for at least 60 days, and then bottle without carbing them. You may need some more time or a different yeast.

Did you taste the cider before force carbing? Did you ad any other fermentable sugars to the cider? what was your original gravity?

 

[AsylumBrewWorks]

I did taste it before carbing it it tasted a bit chemically but it seemed to get worse. I didnt add any fermentable sugars before carbing. I did forget to mention I did add capmden tabs after the first week then Added more cider and brown sugar. the OG was 1.062

 

[Maylar]

Could you be tasting sulfites from the campden?

There's no point in adding it after only a week.

 

[AsylumBrewWorks]

Maybe, I dont know. I added them to stop any fermentation so I could add the additional cider and brown sugar. Do you think it may get better with time in the keg or should I dump and start over? I was going to try the Caramel Apple cider I found on the forum.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=292770

 

[AsylumBrewWorks]

I dont know. I added them to stop any fermentation so I could add the additional cider and brown sugar. Do you think it may improve with time in the keg, or just dump and try again? I am going to do the caramel cider from the forum next.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=292770

 

[JimRausch]

I'm thinking your 68-70 might be high, although I have not used the WY3068.
Low and slow is my general motto(taken from Dave Taylor)

 

[pricelessbrewing]

I'm the opposite, and have not had this off flavor.

I use belle saison yeast, ferment at 72-75 ambient (probably ferm temp 78~) and finish within 3-4 days ferment. I add nutrients as well. Let it sit for a little bit, not long. Just enough to give me time to cold crash and keg it.

 

[Yooper]

I did taste it before carbing it it tasted a bit chemically but it seemed to get worse. I didnt add any fermentable sugars before carbing. I did forget to mention I did add capmden tabs after the first week then Added more cider and brown sugar. the OG was 1.062

Well, campden doesn't inhibit yeast, so feeding the cider some sugars from the cider and brown sugar means continued fermentation. Unless you added more campden that would stress the yeast? That would cause a chemical flavor, I guess, but more medicinal and "clove" probably.

 

[Maylar]

I dont know. I added them to stop any fermentation so I could add the additional cider and brown sugar. Do you think it may improve with time in the keg, or just dump and try again? I am going to do the caramel cider from the forum next.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=292770

I have issues with that recipe, adding Campden to stop fermentation is one of them. It doesn't work like that. There's 200 pages to that thread, I suggest reading it all before committing. In the few times I've used K-Meta I've never tasted the cider in less than a month, so I don't know what it tastes like. But I know it dissipates with time so I suggest waiting a while and see if it goes away.

Another question though - what procedure do you use for cleaning and sanitizing your equipment? A buddy of mine makes wine and he sanitizes his bottles with some crap that leaves a nasty chemical taste. He doesn't notice it but he gave me a bottle that I found undrinkable.

 

[AsylumBrewWorks]

Thank you for all your help.. I am using starsan to sanitize, and Five Star PBW Cleaner. I have noticed that the cleaner leaves a residue so I am diligent in rising it thoroughly. As for the Campden, in all the cider recipe instructions I have read say to add the tablets after adding the cider to the fermenter to halt the wild yeast then let it sit for 24 hours then add your yeast. This way you dont have two different yeast fighting it out. Im thinking that because I am using store bought cider I can eliminate this step. I dont add pectic enzymes because a clear cider isn't all that important to me. I do also add yeast nutrients.

Do you have any suggested recipes

Again thank you for your help

 

[Yooper]

Thank you for all your help.. I am using starsan to sanitize, and Five Star PBW Cleaner. I have noticed that the cleaner leaves a residue so I am diligent in rising it thoroughly. As for the Campden, in all the cider recipe instructions I have read say to add the tablets after adding the cider to the fermenter to halt the wild yeast then let it sit for 24 hours then add your yeast. This way you dont have two different yeast fighting it out. Im thinking that because I am using store bought cider I can eliminate this step. I dont add pectic enzymes because a clear cider isn't all that important to me. I do also add yeast nutrients.

Do you have any suggested recipes

Again thank you for your help

I dont know. I added them to stop any fermentation so I could add the additional cider and brown sugar. Do you think it may improve with time in the keg, or just dump and try again? I am going to do the caramel cider from the forum next.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=292770

You don't need to use campden in pasteurized cider. It is very useful in winemaking with fruit, so that it can kill other microbes. Wine yeast is tolerant of sulfites, so many winemakers use campden (sulfites) routinely.

I also use campden at every other racking. Campden tablets are a convenient form of potassium metabisulfite. It's used primarily as an antioxidant by winemakers- it binds to the wine so oxygen can't. It does dissipate so it is added at intervals to protect the wine (or mead, or cider).

Many people seem to be under the mistaken impression that campden will halt brewer's yeast or wine yeast. It does not.

In order to stabilize a cider to inhibit further fermentation, such as in sweetening a finished cider, steps need to be taken. From this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=508303 I have written:

Sweetening the Cider:

If the cider is finished, and clear, then campden and sorbate will allow you to sweeten the cider. If it's not finished and there are a lot of lees (sediment), it won't do anything.

The way it works is that sorbate does not kill yeast, but it prevents yeast reproduction. So, in an active fermentation when there are hundreds and hundreds of billions of active yeast, it won't do a thing. But once fermentation stops, and the cider clears, and the cider is racked off of the fallen yeast, it can be added to prevent yeast reproducing, thereby not allowing fermentation to begin again (usually). Sorbate works better in the presence of sulfite (campden), so they are generally added together.

However, it will NOT stop an active fermentation and will not work in a cider that is not clear and done fermenting.

If you use this method, and it is successful, you can sweeten to taste without any risk of bottle bombs.

Because the yeast has been inhibited, however, you will not be able to bottle carbonate the cider. Carbonation is a function of the yeast.

It's fairly easy to make a sweet still cider, or a dry carbonated cider. To make a sweet sparkling cider, extra steps and techniques like bottle pasteurization or kegging would be needed.
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