NE Style IPA, too tough for a beginner?

[marjen]

One question on the yeast, I assume i just use a single liquid pack for the batch?

I have now ordered ALL ingredients and equipment. Now I sit back and wait for it all to arrive and read, watch videos and prep for that first brew day.

 

[marjen]

Closed transfer to a purged keg is the way to go, best $200 you will spend on equipment.

Thanks for the information. If this first batch is drinkable I plan to look into possibly investing in kegging and real temp control for fermentation. All that doubles the entry price and I want to make sure it seems worthwhile before adding all the extra expense.

 

[IslandLizard]

One question on the yeast, I assume i just use a single liquid pack for the batch?

I have now ordered ALL ingredients and equipment. Now I sit back and wait for it all to arrive and read, watch videos and prep for that first brew day.

<rubbing hands together> I was waiting for that question.

Which yeast strain are you thinking of using?
Regardless, read up on making yeast starters. Another curve to learn, but at least you have to do this a few days before you brew.

Search in Chrome:

site:homebrewtalk.com yeast starter​

You can query anything that way and stay within the homebrewtalk.com domain (site).

 

[marjen]

I am going to be using this yeast: http://www.northernbrewer.com/wyeast-british-ale

 

[marjen]

Regardless, read up on making yeast starters. Another curve to learn, but at least you have to do this a few days before you brew.

Ok So reading upon on starters. It says to add DME and 2 cups water. I assume this does not impact the regular ingredients list in any way? Meaning I dont remove some DME from recipe because I am adding it to the starter?

 

[TallDan]

I'd like to take a moment to remind everyone that we are in the "Beginners Beer Brewing Forum." While I know we all want to help the OP brew the best batch possible for his first one, some pretty advanced topics are being suggested here (and even being implied as requirements). Sure, we can help him make a world-class NEIPA, but first let's help him get his first batch in the fermenter.

 

[marjen]

I'd like to take a moment to remind everyone that we are in the "Beginners Beer Brewing Forum." While I know we all want to help the OP brew the best batch possible for his first one, some pretty advanced topics are being suggested here (and even being implied as requirements). Sure, we can help him make a world-class NEIPA, but first let's help him get his first batch in the fermenter.

Thank you. But I know everyone is just trying to help and I know I am not heading the advise of some warning me against trying this. I am taking it all in and doing as much research as possible. And I will be attending a class on Brewing NE IPAs prior to actually trying this which should help a lot as well as I can ask questions and get a lot of feedback from others and the instructor. I know its going to take a lot of organization and mental toughness and probably a TON of luck to make a decent batch of brew my first time out

 

[JJ900]

I thought with extract beers that you may not want to be adding so many brewing salts because the factory that made the extract already had minerals etc. in their water. Do those minerals not include salts?

 

[IslandLizard]

Ok So reading upon on starters. It says to add DME and 2 cups water. I assume this does not impact the regular ingredients list in any way? Meaning I dont remove some DME from recipe because I am adding it to the starter?

Reading up on starters is not taking the first result that gets returned and take that for an answer. Research the topics more thoroughly...

No, you do not add the DME from your recipe to your starter. The yeast starter is made before and outside of your brew, say 4-7 days ahead. It is to grow more yeast from the pack you buy.

Typically yeast starters are made with 100gr of DME dissolved per liter of water (1:10). For your beer you need to make at least a 2 liter starter.

Actually, if you want to use WY1098, you may be better off using the dry yeast version of it, Safale S-04, and save yourself the crash course in making yeast starters right now.

For NE IPAs, liquid yeasts such as WY1318 London Ale III (Boddingtons), Conan, such as Yeast Bay's Vermont Ale, Omega Yeast Lab&#8217;s Double IPA Yeast OYL-052 DIPA, or GigaYeast's Vermont IPA Yeast GY054 are highly recommended.

Here's a good write up on NE IPAs

 

[marjen]

I understand this is done prior to brew day. I guess what I was asking is if my recipe calls for 9 lbs of DME and I use say 1/2 lb on the starter, do I remove 1/2 lb on brew day? I am thinking no but was just asking.

 

[IslandLizard]

I understand this is done prior to brew day. I guess what I was asking is if my recipe calls for 9 lbs of DME and I use say 1/2 lb on the starter, do I remove 1/2 lb on brew day? I am thinking no but was just asking.

Indeed, it's no. You do not remove that 200 grams from your main recipe.

The starter is like a small beer in which the yeast grows while fermenting it. It needs to be shaken often or stirred on a stir plate for 24 hours (sometimes longer) to get optimal growth.

After 24 hours of growing, you'd "cold crash" it in the fridge, so the yeast settles out on the bottom. You'd pour off the (mostly) clear starter beer (down the sink, or some people drink it), leaving the yeast slurry behind. That slurry gets pitched into your main batch of chilled wort, which then becomes beer.

Needless to say, you need to use good sanitation practices when handling yeast. You don't want to grow an infection, "bugs," bacteria.

You can use a gallon jug to grow your yeast. The fancy flasks are good for stir plates, most have a very flat bottom. The 2 liter ones are a bit too small for growing yeast without a stir plate.

There is lots of info here and elsewhere on how to do yeast starters. Again, not difficult, it becomes 2nd nature when you've done a few. Same for sanitation and most other brewing related processes, hands on experience and learning from mistakes makes you a better brewer. It just takes time.

I've been brewing for 8 years and still make mistakes. Like I just added twice the amount of one of the minerals (brewing "salts") to the strike water, to be used for the mash. And I haven't had beer yet.

 

[marjen]

So I am finally ready, I think, for my first brew day this weekend. I have all my gear, all the ingredients, now it's time to go for it. I am going to make my starter on Saturday and clean all my gear. Sunday I will brew. Real nervous I am going to somehow screw it up but looking forward to the challenge. Appreciate this forum and all the help so far.

 

[Mainer]

So I am finally ready, I think, for my first brew day this weekend. I have all my gear, all the ingredients, now it's time to go for it. I am going to make my starter on Saturday and clean all my gear. Sunday I will brew. Real nervous I am going to somehow screw it up but looking forward to the challenge. Appreciate this forum and all the help so far.

Don't worry; even if you screw up, your beer will still be beer, and that's amazing! RDWHAHB, as they say.

 

[McKnuckle]

Since it's only Wednesday, you might consider re-reading IslandLizard's yeast starter instructions from post #71:

"After 24 hours of growing, you'd "cold crash" it in the fridge, so the yeast settles out on the bottom. You'd pour off the (mostly) clear starter beer (down the sink, or some people drink it), leaving the yeast slurry behind. That slurry gets pitched into your main batch of chilled wort..."

So ideally, make your starter on Thursday. On Friday, cold crash it. Then on Sunday, dump out all but a tiny amount of the liquid; swish the remaining liquid around with the yeast til it's a nice creamy consistency, and pitch that into your fresh wort.

 

[dyqik]

Since it's only Wednesday, you might consider re-reading IslandLizard's yeast starter instructions from post #71:

"After 24 hours of growing, you'd "cold crash" it in the fridge, so the yeast settles out on the bottom. You'd pour off the (mostly) clear starter beer (down the sink, or some people drink it), leaving the yeast slurry behind. That slurry gets pitched into your main batch of chilled wort..."

So ideally, make your starter on Thursday. On Friday, cold crash it. Then on Sunday, dump out all but a tiny amount of the liquid; swish the remaining liquid around with the yeast til it's a nice creamy consistency, and pitch that into your fresh wort.

Or if that sounds like too much work, you could just buy two packs of yeast and use both.

 

[marjen]

Wow Thursday? So leave it in the frig from Friday to Sunday?

 

[Jtk78]

Wow Thursday? So leave it in the frig from Friday to Sunday?

Yes. I fridge mine in my starter flask with foil loosely covering it. Some people do not cold crash & just pitch the entire starter, but I prefer the cold crash route for a couple reasons.
1st - if I did get a bad yeast supply (hasn't happened yet, but I have had a slow starter) I have a few days to get more yeast.
2nd - if I'm making a 5 gallon batch it's about 19 liters. If I added the entire 2 liters batch, I could be having a 10% effect on my beer. I'm trying to improve my beers by 10%, not worsen by not getting rid of starter wort.
3rd - if I am not cold crashing, I'm kind of guessing when that yeast will be ready to pitch. 24 hours is usually a good guess, but that slow starter I mentioned took longer. I don't need to lock down the schedule. If I were brewing Sunday, I would probably make my starter no later than Thursday afternoon. But really anytime between the previous Sunday and Thursday would be fine.

 

[McKnuckle]

The rationale is this: You want the yeast to sense its new environment (the starter wort), go through the growth phase, and start fermenting. But they don't need to finish fermenting - not at all. As soon as they are done growing (that's the whole point of a starter), you want them to stop and settle out so you can discard the yucky basic beer in the starter. To do that requires cold crashing and a little bit of time. Two days is usually good, although not with lager yeast; it needs more time. That's not relevant to you though.

Plenty of people pitch the starter wort too, so it is not wrong to do so, it's a choice. I and others prefer not to put starter liquid in our precious, carefully crafted beer.

 

[marjen]

So even with a stirmaster I need to start tonight? I had planned on doing the starter Saturday, lol. If I do it tonight, leave on stirplate until tomorrow night, then place in frig tomorrow night until Sunday morning and take out of frig a couple hours before brewing?

 

[McKnuckle]

Yes, the suggested timing includes use of a stir plate. The yeast takes roughly 18-24 hours to multiply, then they get going on their work. Your timing is tight but doable. Keep the yeast refrigerated right up until the point of pitching. Decant the starter beer, swirl, allow to warm up a bit (15 minutes, whatever, not critical) and pitch.

 

[marjen]

Timing is tight how? Should I leave it on stir played longer? Like say Saturday morning, then refrigerate?

 

[TallDan]

Timing is tight how? Should I leave it on stir played longer? Like say Saturday morning, then refrigerate?

Yeast don't know how to tell time and don't know what day it is, they just do their thing. So, any guidelines on timing of starters is just that: guidelines. That said, sticking to some best practices will help you make the best beer you can.

Here's what I would do in your current situation:
thursday evening: make the starter and put it on the stir plate
friday evening or saturday morning: take it off the stir plate and put it in the refrigerator
Sunday when you start brewing: carefully decant the starter beer off of the top and let the yeast warm to room temperature

That may not quite be ideal (like i said, you can't tell the yeast what time and day they're making beer and tell them to get ready), but it's damn close.

Why might it not be ideal? There's lots of variables here. Some yeast ferment faster than others and will ideally have more or less than a day to multiply in the starter. That will also change with how big the starter is and what temperature it's fermenting at. Some highly flocculent yeast will be fine with a much shorter cold crash. Pay attention to how the starter looks for your first several batches and you'll know exactly what to look for in the future.

Also, Kudos to you for jumping right into the deep end here and following through on the plan for your first brew!

 

[marjen]

Also, Kudos to you for jumping right into the deep end here and following through on the plan for your first brew!

Thanks. I will not be deterred. &#55357;&#56832; Too make it more complicated I am going to split the wort in two to try two different yeast strains. And it looks like it's only going to be about 35 degrees out on Sunday. Was supposed to be a lot warmer.

Alright making the starter tonight. I am about to officially be a brewer.

 

[marjen]

Ok so I just got done making my starter. Everything was going great until I started second guessing my directions.

I have a 2L flask. I had the starter with 2 cups of water and 1/2 cup of DME. got through boil, stirred it in, poured it in the flask and it looked like nothing. So i started frantically searching the web and got about 500 different answers on how much water and DME to use. So tried doubling it and mixing together which turned into a mess as I stepped away for 2 seconds to read more and it started overflowing. So finally I dumped that and started over with my original 2 cups water to 1/2 cup DME. I then pitched in the yeast once it was at about 75 degrees and it is now on my stirstarter. I am using WL 007 which actually says it does not need a starter. It also was weird as I thought it was liquid yeast, but said dry on package so I did not smack it. But when I poured it out there was liquid in there and then some clumps. I agitated it real good before starting the stirstater and now it looks like it is all mixed in good.

So did I completely screw it up? Did I make the right amount?

At the very least I got my feet wet. I think I did a good job with the cleaning and sanitation piece. And if I did not second guess what I was doing it would have been great.

 

[TallDan]

Ok so I just got done making my starter. Everything was going great until I started second guessing my directions.

I have a 2L flask. I had the starter with 2 cups of water and 1/2 cup of DME. got through boil, stirred it in, poured it in the flask and it looked like nothing. So i started frantically searching the web and got about 500 different answers on how much water and DME to use. So tried doubling it and mixing together which turned into a mess as I stepped away for 2 seconds to read more and it started overflowing. So finally I dumped that and started over with my original 2 cups water to 1/2 cup DME. I then pitched in the yeast once it was at about 75 degrees and it is now on my stirstarter. I am using WL 007 which actually says it does not need a starter. It also was weird as I thought it was liquid yeast, but said dry on package so I did not smack it. But when I poured it out there was liquid in there and then some clumps. I agitated it real good before starting the stirstater and now it looks like it is all mixed in good.

So did I completely screw it up? Did I make the right amount?

At the very least I got my feet wet. I think I did a good job with the cleaning and sanitation piece. And if I did not second guess what I was doing it would have been great.

You need to use a calculator to get an estimate of how big of a starter to make. I'm partial to http://yeastcalculator.com/ (I started hosting it when the original site went down) but there any many others.

That is a pretty small starter though. You could add more if you want, or just let it go. Yeast packaging typically says that it's good enough for a 5G batch of up to 1.050 or something, but the general consensus is that the packages don't provide very good guidance.

 

[dantose]

Which is better liquid or dry? And any brand recommendations? True beginner here so no idea what I am looking for. Thanks I appreciate the help.

Performance wise, they are identical. It's largely personal preference. I like dry personally, but used mostly liquid when I was working as a brewer.

 

[dantose]

Oh, and as for starters, most yeasts you can direct pitch, so starters can get things going quicker, but you aren't really going to screw anything up if you flub your starter.

 

[marjen]

Ok good to know. So it might be on the small side but sounds like it will still do the job. Let's hope.

 

[IslandLizard]

Ok so I just got done making my starter. Everything was going great until I started second guessing my directions. [...]

Relax, have a beer.

Over the next 2 days, please reread all the suggestions that have been given, and write/copy them down in a logical way. You may even find 2 or 3 different ideas or suggestions for some topics. One maybe better than the others, or is simply a user's preference, no better or worse.

If something isn't clear, reread, do a search, or ask again.

Regarding your starter, I think it was made clear you need to make a 2 liter starter, not 2 cups. A 2 liter starter is made with 2 liters of water and 200 grams of DME, about a cup's worth. You really should weigh the DME to be more accurate, but in a pinch, a measuring cup will work fine.

WLP007 is called Dry English Ale, it's a liquid yeast, not dry. It's made by White Labs, and is not a smack pack. There's nothing to smack. However, massaging the sleeve before opening helps to bring the solids back into suspension, so it pours easier.

The whole content of that Pure Pitch pack should be added to the starter, under the motto: No yeast left behind!

Once you get a bit more used to handling yeast and wort in sanitary ways, after emptying it out you can add some (sterile) wort to the sleeve to "rinse" it out. Again, handling yeast and chilled wort in a sanitary fashion is paramount for clean, uninfected beer.

If I may take the liberty to speak for all of us: Good luck with your first brew session! We like success stories as well as some drama, they go hand in hand. Please keep us posted on how it went, and what you would do differently next time.

 

[dantose]

Here's the fundamentals from both sides. When I was brewing for a brewpub, I logged and measured every ounce of product used. I set timers for boils, chills, fermentations, etc. Everything was done with an eye towards being able to exactly replicate the results. I made great beer. When I brew on my own as a hobby, I measure virtually nothing. I have terrible temperature control. I get bored and cut my boil off at 50 minutes instead of 60. I make great beer that I could never replicate.

At the heart of it, they used to do this in caves. In a decade if brewing with my laissez-faire approach, I've had exactly one batch I had to dump. Relax, have fun, and learn.