Natural Keg Carbonation Question

[johnsonpvb17]

In addition to a syringe or pressure bottle, are there any another devices to add priming solution into a purged closed keg?

 

[mashdar]

Those are the options I can think of. You could put the sugar in the keg and then fermentation gas purge it, but there's a risk it would ferment too early.

Are you just assessing your options?

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

I use a 500ml syringe, silicon tubing and a gas QD then inject via the gas post after releasing pressure from the keg.

It looks like a syringe fit for an elephant, but works nicely. I do this on all my beers nowadays. I prefer it to the soda bottle method because with the syringe I can be certain there's no air in it.

Here's a picture of the assembly I took a while back. Nowadays, I use a much shorter peice of tubing though. Not needed to be that long.

Here's link to syringe:

https://a.co/d/eErPT8x

Here's link to tubing (same tubing I use for flotit 2.0: (5mm ID x 7mm OD)

https://a.co/d/hZT2mV9

 

[johnsonpvb17]

I use a 500ml syringe, silicon tubing and a gas QD then inject via the gas post after releasing pressure from the keg.

It looks like a syringe fit for an elephant, but works nicely. I do this on all my beers nowadays. I prefer it to the soda bottle method because with the syringe I can be certain there's no air in it.

Here's a picture of the assembly I took a while back. Nowadays, I use a much shorter peice of tubing though. Not needed to be that long.

Here's link to syringe:

https://a.co/d/eErPT8x

Here's link to tubing (same tubing I use for flotit 2.0: (5mm ID x 7mm OD)

https://a.co/d/hZT2mV9

View attachment 857604

Good looking syringe. Thanks so much for the set up.

 

[KeizerBrewr]

I add my priming solution and then seal and purge my keg before I close transfer.

 

[johnsonpvb17]

Thanks for the response. I was concerned with adequately purging the keg but may be overly cautious. Appreciate the help.

 

[mashdar]

IMO purging a whole keg without fermentation gas or a liquid displacement is not super practical. It would require tons of CO2.

But if you're filling the keg almost full and have a short gas dip tube above the liquid*, straight gas purging the head space is pretty easy. Just leave the PRV open and flow 20-30s of gas. The yeast will gobble up the tiny bit of O2 that dissolves during transfer. Not as good as a closed transfer, but not too bad.

*If the dip tube is touching beer, flowing gas out the PRV will foam like crazy.

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

IMO purging a whole keg without fermentation gas or a liquid displacement is not super practical. It would require tons of CO2.

But if you're filling the keg almost full and have a short gas dip tube above the liquid*, straight gas purging the head space is pretty easy. Just leave the PRV open and flow 20-30s of gas. The yeast will gobble up the tiny bit of O2 that dissolves during transfer. Not as good as a closed transfer, but not too bad.

*If the dip tube is touching beer, flowing gas out the PRV will foam like crazy.

I'd agree that the headspace is the biggest concern and that short exposure during transfer is less of a concern.

Purging the keg fully with sanitizer is better, but does take some more time and effort

The only time I open my keg lid for a transfer is if I'm adding oak or something else to the keg. Generally, I'll do this after I've already fully purged the receiving keg.

In these instances what I like to do is hookup my CO2 tank with a liquid QD (I also use an in line check valve for insurance) into the liquid post of my keg. This way I can keep positive pressure in the keg from the bottom up when I open the lid. I'll run it at 8 PSI (relieving pressure via the prv then simultaneously opening the lid. You don't want a pressurized lid exploding into your face!).

You could add priming sugar this way to a purged keg as well. In fact when I add oak to kegs this is how I add my priming sugar. I like using dextrose carbonation tablets in this instance as it's less messy than powder or liquids.

If you have a floating diptube like I do in my keg then you don't need to worry about the CO2 blowing below the liquid level if hooking up gas to the liquid post

I prefer to use the syringe in any instances where I don't have to open the lid though

 

[DuncB]

I have one of these it works really well, although I find even with 10 psi in the keg or pressure fermenter I can inject using a 60ml luer lock syringe with silicone tubing and liquid ball lock.

https://www.ubrew4u.co.nz/product/UBREW4U-Hop-Flavour-Injector

I've attached a liquid ball lock to the non threaded end with tubing and taken off the push fit tube connector on the other end and put a universal gas or liquid post on so I can purge, flush out with gas but also closed fill this with the above mentioned syringe.

 

[johnsonpvb17]

I'd agree that the headspace is the biggest concern and that short exposure during transfer is less of a concern.

Purging the keg fully with sanitizer is better, but does take some more time and effort

The only time I open my keg lid for a transfer is if I'm adding oak or something else to the keg. Generally, I'll do this after I've already fully purged the receiving keg.

In these instances what I like to do is hookup my CO2 tank with a liquid QD (I also use an in line check valve for insurance) into the liquid post of my keg. This way I can keep positive pressure in the keg from the bottom up when I open the lid. I'll run it at 8 PSI (relieving pressure via the prv then simultaneously opening the lid. You don't want a pressurized lid exploding into your face!).

You could add priming sugar this way to a purged keg as well. In fact when I add oak to kegs this is how I add my priming sugar. I like using dextrose carbonation tablets in this instance as it's less messy than powder or liquids.

If you have a floating diptube like I do in my keg then you don't need to worry about the CO2 blowing below the liquid level if hooking up gas to the liquid post

I prefer to use the syringe in any instances where I don't have to open the lid though

Thanks for the tip on positive pressure when opening. That's a good one. I have been doing the sanitizer purge with followups and trying to keep the whole process as straight forward as possible to minimize opportunities to mess up.

 

[johnsonpvb17]

I have one of these it works really well, although I find even with 10 psi in the keg or pressure fermenter I can inject using a 60ml luer lock syringe with silicone tubing and liquid ball lock.

https://www.ubrew4u.co.nz/product/UBREW4U-Hop-Flavour-Injector
View attachment 857728

I've attached a liquid ball lock to the non threaded end with tubing and taken off the push fit tube connector on the other end and put a universal gas or liquid post on so I can purge, flush out with gas but also closed fill this with the above mentioned syringe.

Thanks. It's good to know the options on this. Appreciate it.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

I use a 500ml syringe, silicon tubing and a gas QD then inject via the gas post after releasing pressure from the keg.

It looks like a syringe fit for an elephant, but works nicely. I do this on all my beers nowadays. I prefer it to the soda bottle method because with the syringe I can be certain there's no air in it.

Here's a picture of the assembly I took a while back. Nowadays, I use a much shorter peice of tubing though. Not needed to be that long.

Here's link to syringe:

https://a.co/d/eErPT8x

Here's link to tubing (same tubing I use for flotit 2.0: (5mm ID x 7mm OD)

https://a.co/d/hZT2mV9

View attachment 857604

I use the same, but with about 2” of tubing; just enough to fit onto the syringe and accommodate the barb on my swivel connector.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

Thanks for the tip on positive pressure when opening. That's a good one. I have been doing the sanitizer purge with followups and trying to keep the whole process as straight forward as possible to minimize opportunities to mess up.

Just remember that you do NOT want positive pressure on the keg when you use a syringe to inject your priming sugar. If you don’t have your hand on the plunger when you connect, you’re in for a sugar-water bath! Ask me how I know.

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

Just remember that you do NOT want positive pressure on the keg when you use a syringe to inject your priming sugar. If you don’t have your hand on the plunger when you connect, you’re in for a sugar-water bath! Ask me how I know.

Very true! Relieve ALL pressure and continue to push firmly on the syringe until you disconnect the QD

Thats also why it's advisable to inject via the gas post as you won't potentially blow back additional liquid from the keg

I had it happen to me once with only 3 PSI, never again!

 

[Closet Fermenter]

Thats also why it's advisable to inject via the gas post as you won't potentially blow back additional liquid from the keg

I had it happen to me once with only 3 PSI, never again!

Oh, I was injecting through the gas post, but it is amazing how far and wide pressure can push a little liquid. Think: HPLV (high pressure, low volume) pressure washer nozzle!