Nanobrewerys selling clones as their own

[luke2080]

A process with ingredient list is a recipe and can be copywritten if printed.

From the US Copyright office:

Copyright law does not protect recipes that are mere listings of ingredients. Nor does it protect other mere listings of ingredients such as those found in formulas, compounds, or prescriptions. Copyright protection may, however, extend to substantial literary expression—a description, explanation, or illustration, for example—that accompanies a recipe or formula or to a combination of recipes, as in a cookbook.

Only original works of authorship are protected by copyright. “Original” means that an author produced a work by his or her own intellectual effort instead of copying it from an existing work.

We may be saying the same thing, but I take this to mean you can't copyright a recipe - in making it so you can't follow that process. They can put other words to it, and publish it in a book or an article and copyright that. But they do not own the process or recipe. So I can physically brew the same thing, with the same techniques. Although you are right in that I cannot re-print it as my own for public use. But if you write down the process, I can sure as heck follow the same thing and brew my beer with the same process.

Except the Germans did it before Anchor and call it dampfbier.

Right, but Anchor did the one thing you can do to truly protect yourself as a brewing company, and trademarked calling it Steam beer. That is all I was pointing out. Thankfully no one trademarked Pale Ale back in the day.

If you master a science then you know every single thing there ever is to know about it. That is impossible, thus no masters of brewing truly exist. There are no masters, only students. Naming a piece of paper on a wall something doesn't change anything either.

Then sadly, I guess He-Man was not the Master of the Universe.

 

[Spartan1979]

I'm surprised there aren't more commercial clones out there. It should be simple supply and demand. For example, apparently Russian River can't supply enough Pliny to satisfy demand so I'd expect another supplier to try to step in and meet that demand. While they couldn't call it Pliny, if it was the same, word would get out.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

explain that one.

Patenting the recipe protects the actual description of the recipe, it does not prevent people from replicating the same dish, following the recipe, etc. Copyright registration protects the creative expression of the author from being co-opted by another. The registration protects the actual words in the recipe; it does not prevent others from following the recipe, even for commercial purposes. Third parties simply could not replicate the language of the copyrighted recipe (without permission) in their own writings, presentations, etc.

 

[HokieBrewer]

I'm surprised there aren't more commercial clones out there. It should be simple supply and demand. For example, apparently Russian River can't supply enough Pliny to satisfy demand so I'd expect another supplier to try to step in and meet that demand. While they couldn't call it Pliny, if it was the same, word would get out.

How many former Mercedes drivers do you see driving Hyundais? Not many.

 

[Hermit]

How many former Mercedes drivers do you see driving Hyundais? Not many.

I see plenty of Hyundais with bumper stickers reading "My other car is a Mercedes.

 

[wardenwheat]

There is alot more to cloning a beer besides the recipe. Most recipes are fairly simple. I've taken clone recipes and had them end up completely different from their commercial cousin. Mash temp, IBU's, hop type, pitch rate, yeast selection, fermentation variables all change beers. If they can successfully clone it, more power to them.

 

[Grinder12000]

Even if they use the same exact temps it's not an exact copy. I see no problem

 

[david_42]

I'm 100% with yooper, he made it, it's his beer.

 

[david_42]

I see plenty of Hyundais with bumper stickers reading "My other car is a Mercedes.

A friend has a bumper sticker, "My other Mercedes is a 450SL."

 

[HokieBrewer]

My point is the pliny fan boys out there wouldn't swoon over an imitator. You could point out that it's just the same, but they would still dismiss it as being good, but not as good.

It's easy for fans of the upstart to think it's just as good as the market leader. See the above Hyundai cases for example.

 

[eastoak]

Patenting the recipe protects the actual description of the recipe, it does not prevent people from replicating the same dish, following the recipe, etc. Copyright registration protects the creative expression of the author from being co-opted by another. The registration protects the actual words in the recipe; it does not prevent others from following the recipe, even for commercial purposes. Third parties simply could not replicate the language of the copyrighted recipe (without permission) in their own writings, presentations, etc.

sounds unlikely to me, a patent on a recipe. are there examples of this?

 

[luke2080]

sounds unlikely to me, a patent on a recipe. are there examples of this?

cookbooks.

 

[Bobby_M]

A cookbook is a specific artistic expression of a group of recipes and is copyrightable in that configuration. It's not a patent.

 

[GuldTuborg]

A cookbook is a specific artistic expression of a group of recipes and is copyrightable in that configuration. It's not a patent.

Exactly, the exposition, description, illustration, or other elements that accompany the recipe are not the same as the recipe. The recipe itself gets no form of copyright protection, and certainly not anything like patent protection.

And what's this about "masters" of a trade having to know everything that can be known about the subject? No offense to the poster intended, but that's the silliest thing I've read all week.

 

[mrpeccator]

If we apply this to our own brewhouses: is it possible to exactly replicate our "own" recipes over thou course of multiple batches? My stuff is always slightly
different, (though you automated brewer might have a different experience.)

 

[sheeshomatic]

If we apply this to our own brewhouses: is it possible to exactly replicate our "own" recipes over thou course of multiple batches? My stuff is always slightly
different, (though you automated brewer might have a different experience.)

It certainly is possible - though even the large breweries blend batches to arrive at the right flavor profile. Whenever you're dealing with organic components and organisms doing work on them there will be variation from batch to batch and year to year.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

A cookbook is a specific artistic expression of a group of recipes and is copyrightable in that configuration. It's not a patent.

I mistyped. I meant copyright registration to be consistent through the post, not a patent registration.

 

[Taypo]

Send me a sample of this "phony". I will be the judge here.

Hell no. You're in Texas, too. I'm a Yankee by birth, Texan by choice. If I took my brisket back to NY, I could probably make a mint on it. Down here, its merely passable.

 

[Pdeezy]

Hell no. You're in Texas, too. I'm a Yankee by birth, Texan by choice. If I took my brisket back to NY, I could probably make a mint on it. Down here, its merely passable.

Next day leftovers in a tortilla with picante sauce is my favorite.

 

[Taypo]

Shredded brisket, green onions and cheese fritatta in a cast iron skillet for brunch. Washed down with a homebrew.

 

[Spartan1979]

How many former Mercedes drivers do you see driving Hyundais? Not many.

I'm talking about products of similar quality. I didn't even address pricing.

A more fair comparison would be "How many former Mercedes drivers do you see driving Lexuses?"

If you could get a product with the same taste as Pliny from a different source you wouldn't take advantage of it? Especially if it's not otherwise available to you?

 

[Pdeezy]

I'm talking about products of similar quality. I didn't even address pricing.

A more fair comparison would be "How many former Mercedes drivers do you see driving Lexuses?"

If you could get a product with the same taste as Pliny from a different source you wouldn't take advantage of it? Especially if it's not otherwise available to you?

And it's not like they would market it as a Pliny clone, but word would spread quick if it really was as good, or even close. -- I would buy it.

I'd be more interested in the Alpha King clone though. I tried those two in a side by side and Alpha was better IMO.

 

[HokieBrewer]

And it's not like they would market it as a Pliny clone, but word would spread quick if it really was as good, or even close. -- I would buy it.

I'd be more interested in the Alpha King clone though. I tried those two in a side by side and Alpha was better IMO.

I don't want to get into a pissing match here. All I'm saying is it's consumer intuition to think easy to get = not as good. A widely distributed Pliny clone won't get the same response as Pliny. To a lot of people, if it doesn't have a release party, it can't be in the upper echelon. Pretty sad.

 

[Pdeezy]

I don't want to get into a pissing match here. All I'm saying is it's consumer intuition to think easy to get = not as good. A widely distributed Pliny clone won't get the same response as Pliny. To a lot of people, if it doesn't have a release party, it can't be in the upper echelon. Pretty sad.

I agree completely. I was disapointed when I finally got to try Pliny the Elder. I mean it was good...VERY good, but I have a strong feeling if you could buy it on every shelf in the US (or even every state for that matter) it wouldn't get such rave reviews.

 

[Taypo]

You're absolutely correct. Hell, look at the idiots lining up to buy the $200 Michael Jordan sneaker re-issues every few months. Mass produce em, stick the same price tag on em and nobody would give a rats ass.

I KNOW that the Left Hand Milk Stout they're putting out in the Nitro bottles is exactly the same as the Left Hand Milk Stout that I get on the Nitro tap at the bar, but they fact that I cant get it down here yet makes me want it that much more. I'm smart enough to know its a marketing thing, but dumb enough to fall for it...

 

[dassy]

Thought I was posting, not replying. Moderator please delete this post

 

[passedpawn]

My friend gave me on of those 5 gallon water cooler jugs. It is still sealed but he has had it for a year. It has been exposed to light, sun and hot temperature fluctuations in that year. Is there any thing I should worry about when brewing with this?

errr... way off topic in your own thread. It's your party, but heh? Bsst to start a new thread with some thing like this.

(oh, and on topic, who cares what that guy making the clones does. If his beer tastes good, I suggest drinking it and thanking him for making it)

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

(oh, and on topic, who cares what that guy making the clones does. If his beer tastes good, I suggest drinking it and thanking him for making it)

HAHA...the whole time reading this...I was wondering if the beer was good or not. If you don't like the guy don't give him your money...if you like the bar maids (or beer dudes) then drink up and don't forget to tip!