Name German Beers Worth Drinking that aren't..... Wheats or Lagers

[ArcaneXor]

Also keep in mind that for much of Germany, the Reinheitsgebot didn't apply until German unification in 1871, and in some regions, it wasn't enforced until 1906 - and then only for lagers.

 

[StoneHands]

So that being said, what are some good German bocks, dunkels and oktoberfests available in the US? I'll hit up Bevmo on my way home today.

The "Big Six" in Munich are Augustiner, Hacker Pschorr, Spaten, Paulaner, Lowenbrau, and Hofbrau. Spaten from my experience is the easiest to find, but I think their dunkel is almost too malty (plus, they like green bottles). Ayinger is fairly easy to find, their Celebrator is very good, and Jahrhundert when it's traveled well is good. Paulaner Salvator is a very good doppelbock. There are a bunch, and right now you should be able to find most Oktoberfests.

 

[MisterTipsy]

I don't think the Germans screwed themselves with the Reinheitsgebot, they just figured out the only "correct" way to brew beer and stuck with it. When you perfect something, why change?

Certified codswallop! :cross:

 

[MisterTipsy]

The German beer labels are really boring too. I think their beer might taste better with a Three Floyds label.

 

[patto1ro]

My berliner wiesse never got really sour. I've made 2. I have a brewing friend who made one last year and we did side-by-side comparisons and they were almost the same (his was better, but not that much more sour). His won NHC gold this year (his picture was in Zymurgy this month!)

The 2 commercial ones I've had weren't that sour either. Odd.

The ones brewed in Berlin were incredibly sour. For some reason modern versions form elsewhere sometimes only have token sourness. Historically, Berliner Weisses were some of the sourest beers ever brewed.

 

[solbes]

Kolsch and altbiers are both really great hybrid ale styles. I've made 3 Kolsch batches and 1 Dusseldorf style alt. Used Kolsch yeast for both, so you can brew them in succession quite easily. I would ferment the 2565 around 60F for the Kolsch to give a little yeast character, then lager at 35F for 4 weeks. Ferment the washed yeast (from Kolsch) for the Alt at 57/58 and follow the same lager schedule. As long as you pitch lots of yeast for both, you will make great brews that combine aspects of an ale and a lager.

 

[patto1ro]

Dampfbier is barley malt with Hefeweizen yeast, its interesting and drinkable. You will have to make it yourself though

Mine was a bit nasty (like ham) when I bottled (must have been the clove flaver) but after a couple weeks conditioning, it is pretty good...

I used the BYO magazine article for the most part (search in google will find it), I may have preferred WLP300 to 380 if I had tried that, but that is purely a guess.

Dampfbier is not fermented with a hefeweizen yeast. I've been to the brewery that's home to the style and specifically asked the brewer. It's just a normal top-fermenting yeast. The beer itself tastes like a lightly-hopped Alt.

I don't know where the story about hefeweizen yeast came from. Possibly its a mistranslation from German.

 

[ArcaneXor]

The ones brewed in Berlin were incredibly sour. For some reason modern versions form elsewhere sometimes only have token sourness. Historically, Berliner Weisses were some of the sourest beers ever brewed.

pH ranges for BW beers range from about 3.3 to 3.8 (as of the late 1970s; source: VLB Berlin). Most Belgian sours are between 3 and 3.6 (according to Wild Brews). For comparison, the Scottish 80/- I have sitting in front of me is right around 4.5.

 

[MisterTipsy]

I'll try this one. Schlüssel Alt. Should be able to get it.

 

[StoneHands]

Certified codswallop! :cross:

Don't make me shake my fist at you and tell you to get off my lawn. It may be a matter of taste, but I'm of the opinion that German lagers are excellent, and can have very interesting flavors. Try a doppelbock or a dunkel, and give more than one a chance.

Do you smoke? I think some of the subtle flavors can be lost on smokers. A buddy of mine quit smoking last year, he went from loving IIPA's to almost hating them, and now enjoys a helles or a dunkel instead since he says he can taste them now. And you know I must be right on this, since I have a tremendous statistical sample of 1.

 

[patto1ro]

pH ranges for BW beers range from about 3.3 to 3.8 (as of the late 1970s; source: VLB Berlin). Most Belgian sours are between 3 and 3.6 (according to Wild Brews). For comparison, the Scottish 80/- I have sitting in front of me is right around 4.5.

I wonder if that's ones from both East and West Berlin. The ones from the East were sourer.

 

[MisterTipsy]

I can get this one. Might give it a try. At least i will get a swing top bottle out of it.

 

[rpe290]

Dampfbier is not fermented with a hefeweizen yeast. I've been to the brewery that's home to the style and specifically asked the brewer. It's just a normal top-fermenting yeast. The beer itself tastes like a lightly-hopped Alt.

I don't know where the story about hefeweizen yeast came from. Possibly its a mistranslation from German.

Call it whatever you'd like, I would then tell these websites that both of these articles are wrong then.

http://www.germanbeerinstitute.com/Dampfbier.html

http://byo.com/stories/beer-styles/article/indices/11-beer-styles/534-dampfbier-style-profile

 

[MisterTipsy]

Don't make me shake my fist at you and tell you to get off my lawn. It may be a matter of taste, but I'm of the opinion that German lagers are excellent, and can have very interesting flavors. Try a doppelbock or a dunkel, and give more than one a chance.

Do you smoke? I think some of the subtle flavors can be lost on smokers.

Do bath salts count?

My palate is pretty good. I can taste subtle flavors and smell subtle aromas just fine.

The codswallop remark was regarding you saying the Germans brew beer as it should be brewed. It doesn't mean I think they make bad beer.

 

[patto1ro]

Call it whatever you'd like, I would then tell these websites that both of these articles are wrong then.

http://www.germanbeerinstitute.com/Dampfbier.html

http://byo.com/stories/beer-styles/article/indices/11-beer-styles/534-dampfbier-style-profile

Yep, they are wrong. I spoke to the brewer and specifically asked about the yeast strain. He was very clear that it wasn't, and never had been, a hefeweizen strain. It was obvious from the taste of the the beer as well that a wheat beer yeast hadn't been used.

The German Beer Institute is Horst Dornbusch. He has an interestingly casual relationship with facts.

 

[homebrewdad]

For the record, Stonehands (he who defends the Purity Laws) brewed a dunkel that changed my mind about German lagers forever. Amazing stuff, wish I had a bottle now!

 

[Koffie]

Plenty of European breweries use "weird stuff" in their beers. Having a 600 year old law that says you can't is silly.

It's not a law, it's a tradition.

Like whatever everyone like .. i like my beer pure without fancy ingredients (exception: fruit) you can brew so many different types of beer just by playing with the kind of malt(s), mash temps and yeast string.

I can brew a weizen, a tripel, and a flamish red all by 'obeying the law', don't need syrups, pumpkins or nuts for that

 

[ectoplasmicfunk]

I love Spaten stuff. Their Optimator is very tasty.

 

[McGarnigle]

It's not a law, it's a tradition.

Like whatever everyone like .. i like my beer pure without fancy ingredients (exception: fruit) you can brew so many different types of beer just by playing with the kind of malt(s), mash temps and yeast string.

I can brew a weizen, a tripel, and a flamish red all by 'obeying the law', don't need syrups, pumpkins or nuts for that

What about an IPA? Do you brew those? The Germans don't.

The problem is the limitation of ingredients, it's the idea that beer has to meet traditional specifications. And then they mix it with coke or fruit juice.

 

[Hammy71]

I can get this one. Might give it a try. At least i will get a swing top bottle out of it.

YES!!! If you can, see if they have the Double Sticke. Very good. And the bottle is just plain neat.

 

[Koffie]

What about an IPA? Do you brew those? The Germans don't.

The problem is the limitation of ingredients, it's the idea that beer has to meet traditional specifications. And then they mix it with coke or fruit juice.

I haven'r brewed an IPA yet, but I have brewed beers that come close to that. Allthough in IPA isn't german (than it would be an GPA) you can brew one while following the Reinheitsgebot rules.

Just to be clear: I'm not from Germany (bu I love a fine weizen, just finished 10 minutes ago kegging my own version)

 

[ktblunden]

Put in an order to pick up at Bevmo on my way home from work. Got a 6 pack of Spaten Optimator and a bottle of Ayinger Dunkel (as well as a 6 pack of SA Octoberfest). Will give those a try and see what I think.

 

[StoneHands]

Optimator is almost too malty to me, I personally think Ayinger's Celebrator or Paulaner's Salvator are better choices for a doppelbock - I won't turn an Optimator down though. Ayinger's beers are very good IMO, if you good a good bottle of the dunkel, I would think you'd be happy with it.

 

[MisterTipsy]

Euro beer run. I did it for the mostly for the swing tops and yeast. German Altbier, Landbier and a Dopplebock plus a few new to me Belgians.

 

[MisterTipsy]

YES!!! If you can, see if they have the Double Sticke. Very good. And the bottle is just plain neat.

They had Sticke and the double Sticke, but I ended up with the other Altbier from the same brewery.

 

[Maxkling]

The German beer labels are really boring too. I think their beer might taste better with a Three Floyds label.

Honestly at this point, I think you are letting a little beer snobish get in your way of getting help. Why don't you like lagers? That's a huge class to just dismiss. Maybe you could state they flavors you don't like, and we could direct you. Me being German, I love all sorts of German beer, but also don't like a lot of them. Same with "American Beer".

Also there was a reason for the Reinheitsgebot, it wasn't just law makes getting together for no reason what so ever.

 

[OG2620]

Honestly at this point, I think you are letting a little beer snobish get in your way of getting help.

This ought to be good. Cue the Jeopardy music......

 

[MisterTipsy]

Honestly at this point, I think you are letting a little beer snobish get in your way of getting help. Why don't you like lagers?

If you really think I think fancy beer labels would make the beer taste better, I have some PRIME swamp land to sell you. I haven't avoided anyone's advice, so I'm not sure what you are talking about. I don't care much for lagers because they generally taste boring to me.

Also there was a reason for the Reinheitsgebot, it wasn't just law makes getting together for no reason what so ever.

Huh?

 

[thegerm]

Only beers from germany I've purchased in bottle stores that I've really enjoyed are dopplebocks. And there's a simple reason for this, everything is oxidized. I have a bitburger clone that I'm drinking now that tastes so much better than any german pilsner i've bought in any bottle store. The trip on the boat and the terrible storage kills almost every delicate german beer.

also if you look up reinheitsgebot you'll see that it was killed by the EU like 20 years ago. It's only used as a marketing tool now.

 

[thegerm]

I don't care much for lagers because they generally taste boring to me.

You do understand that lager doesn't mean fizzy yellow beer, right? if you think celebrator or salvator are boring beers then, well... I just don't know what to say to you.