My stout woke up!?! (In secondary...)

[david58]

Racked my stout to a secondary last weekend, after two weeks in the primary. Went to check my ale in primary to time the bubbles, and lo and behold, my stout burped!

Temp is about 65 degrees, room holds between 65 and 68. OG was 1.070, gravity when I racked was 1.030.

Did I rack too soon and the beer is just doing more work? Visually the beer looks fine, no foam on top and little visible trub on the bottom.

Do I need to be concerned? Should I plan to let it sit in the secondary fermenter an extra week or two before I bottle - I had planned to bottle at 14 days in secondary (14 primary / 14 secondary).

 

[likwidbliss]

Let it sit and then check your gravity aging. I wouldn't bottle until you get to your target gravity.

 

[Revvy]

Yes you racked to soon. I recommend that folks rack their beers when fermentation is complete. You racked at 1.030 which means the beer wasn't finished yet, and you roused the yeast and it is trying to finish the job...just leave it alone now for at least 2 weeks if not longs. It's going to need to finish, then it's going to need to clean up after itself, THEN it's going to need to settle and clear.

Most of us these days don't secondary at all, just leave our beers alone for a month than bottle. That way it gets the most benefit of the most amount of yeast to finish the job, clean up AND clear, all in one place.

 

[david58]

Yes you racked to soon. I recommend that folks rack their beers when fermentation is complete. You racked at 1.030 which means the beer wasn't finished yet, and you roused the yeast and it is trying to finish the job...just leave it alone now for at least 2 weeks if not longs. It's going to need to finish, then it's going to need to clean up after itself, THEN it's going to need to settle and clear.

Most of us these days don't secondary at all, just leave our beers alone for a month than bottle. That way it gets the most benefit of the most amount of yeast to finish the job, clean up AND clear, all in one place.

Thanks, Revvy - I will just leave it in the secondary another two weeks. My local BeerYoda, the LHBS owner, is pretty firm about the importance to rack after two weeks. I've been scratching my head about that for a while, hearing so many folk talk about skipping secondary and just letting it sit in primary a month or so.

This morphs the thread a bit, but I have a very hoppy Amber Ale in primary (1 week) and am brewing a California Common today - do the styles care about how long in the primary/secondary? Seems the hoppier guy might enjoy the secondary before bottling, but the Calif Common go right to bottles after a coupla weeks in the primary bucket (one of the award winning formulas on this site just used 2 weeks in prim and 0 sec). Am I on track here?

Am working on the 7th batch today - still a noob. But starting to figger some of this out....

 

[jfr1111]

Two weeks is arbitrary. With some beers, fermentation can be complete in 48 hours. Others, it might take months. If you insist on racking to a secondary, use the same tactic as in bottling: same FG reading for three days in a row. Myself, I'd push that even further and insist on identical readings 7 days apart. This would insure that the yeast spend some time on the cake, even in the advent of a fast fermentation.

Not to say that you LHBS is wrong, but if he brews the same rapid turnover style everytime, 2 weeks might be the best for him. 1.070 is a high gravity brew no matter how you cut it. 2 weeks will simply not be long enough most of the time.

 

[david58]

Two weeks is arbitrary. With some beers, fermentation can be complete in 48 hours. Others, it might take months. If you insist on racking to a secondary, use the same tactic as in bottling: same FG reading for three days in a row. Myself, I'd push that even further and insist on identical readings 7 days apart. This would insure that the yeast spend some time on the cake, even in the advent of a fast fermentation.

Not to say that you LHBS is wrong, but if he brews the same rapid turnover style everytime, 2 weeks might be the best for him. 1.070 is a high gravity brew no matter how you cut it. 2 weeks will simply not be long enough most of the time.

To date, I've been skittish about measuring the gravity in between racking steps - am I too worried about oxidation?

Just bought a nice stainless wine thief for this purpose, but am still slow to want to draw the plug out and risk oxidizing my beer by losing the C02 in that headspace.

 

[jfr1111]

CO2 is heavier than air. Unless you leave the beer exposed to the air for hours at a time and drop various objects in the beer while doing it, I wouldn't be too concerned about oxidation. The act of racking or bottling is way more "dangerous" for oxidation, since you have beer leaving the protective CO2 blanket that sits on top of it. And by "dangerous", I mean not very dangerous if you are sensible enough in your practices.

1. Clean the thief in hot water with maybe a drop if dish soap if needed. Rinse well.
2. Sanitize. Sanitize your hands too.
3. Bring the sanitizer with you next to the carboy.
4. Take a kleenex or paper towel and sanitize the area next to the bung.
5. Remove the airlock, place it in the solution.
6. Take a sample.
7. Put the airlock back in place.
8. Check gravity.
9. Rinse with hot water and clean like in step 1.
10. Store for future use.

I use this procedure with a checklist every time I check the gravity. 5 minutes is the maximum time it's taken me so far, starting from step 1. So if you are organized, the risk of introducing oxygen is null.

 

[david58]

Thanks!

 

[MrBungle]

my stout woke up as well, but I have a yeast layer on top that doesn't want to go away! I guess the yeasties are really pushing to hit my FG

 

[david58]

Interesting - measured the SG today and 1.028. Been in the secondary vessel since 11/8, had moved it after two weeks in the primary, with OG of 1.070.

My local home brew shop says it is a bit higher than would normally be expected, but I can't see doing anything else but bottling it and letting it condition.

Any recommendations from the rabble, er, experts?

 

[AKbrewer]

If your gravity is unchanged three days running then you are at FG go ahead and bottle. If it changes you are not. Next time leave it in the primary longer.

 

[david58]

Going to try and see if I can reawaken the yeastybeasties. I'm in experiment mode now - tasted good yesterday, but don't have a lot to lose if the experiment fails. Did a swirl in the fermenter (secondary vessel), hope this will wake the yeasties back up and maybe drop the SG a bit. Not in a rush to bottle, so will let it set for a week and check SG again.

If I see no change (again, at 1.028), does repitching make sense for 10 points? Or do I chalk it up to experience, bottle it, and enjoy what I have?

I am planning to make this again in my next batch, using a starter instead of just pitching the White Labs vial, to see how it progresses - and, I'd be able to compare the beers bottle to bottle (actually, not precisely the same - I really liked the hops in the Guiness Foreign Extra Stout, but the hops won't impact the yeast).

 

[Beer_Guy]

…
If I see no change (again, at 1.028), does repitching make sense for 10 points? Or do I chalk it up to experience, bottle it, and enjoy what I have?
…

10 points is not a lot if you are making “JUST ANY” brew. But if it were me I would repitch. With a yeast that has given up you never know if it will even eat the primer and you might wind up with flat stout.

Since the original yeast produced the flavors correct for a stout, I would add some Safale SA-05 or another clean fermentation yeast. Dry yeast is cheap and almost any yeast should be able to handle the 5.2% ABV you have now.

Oh and ALLWAYS take ANY advise with a grain of salt. Even from here a few posters have been quick to post bad info.

Oh, and also a recipe would be good to help us figure out what the FG should be. (That is baring any brewing errors on your part.)

 

[Bottenbrew]

My advise in situations like this is just let it be for a week or two and then check the SG again. If it is still at 1.028 in a couple weeks, it most likely gone as far as those yeast will take you. Dropping a dry yeast in there to finish it off isn't a bad idea either, depends on how much residual sugar you can/will tolerate in your beer.

 

[david58]

Here is the recipe:

8# dark LME
1/2# 120L Crystal Malt
3/4# Roasted Barley
1/4# Choc Malt
No Brewer Hops (1-1/2oz @ 60, 1/2oz @ 10)
White Labs Irish Yeast
1 tsp Irish Moss @30
3 tsp Gypsum @ 30

OG measured was 1.070 on 10/23/10
SG when moved to secondary vessel on 11/8/10 1.030
SG on 11/27/10 1.028

Gave it a swirly today, maybe woke up the yeast, I'll measure later this week.

Was wondering about repitching just from the carbonation perspective - I likely will plan to do that if I don't see some notable change in SG this week.

 

[david58]

Looks like fermentation is all done, still at the 1.028. Plan to go to the LHS today and get a bit of dry yeast and see if we can get this unstuck and down to where it belongs. It really does taste good now, I want to go ahead and get it all the way finished. Plus, I want it to carb when it gets to the bottle!

 

[NorCalAngler]

With LME and that amount of specialty grains I'm not surprised by your FG being so high. There are a lot of unfermentables in some brands of LME and the highly roasted grains offer a good amount of unfermentable sugar as well. Next time you make the recipe try using pale LME and getting the color and flavor from the specialty grains only.

 

[david58]

Most recent update: LHS owner (and creator of the recipe I used) recommended a "hard rack" to aerate, being sure to suck up as much of the trub as possible, and repitching with Coopers. So we'll see what we have when this is all done...

 

[Revvy]

Most recent update: LHS owner (and creator of the recipe I used) recommended a "hard rack" to aerate, being sure to suck up as much of the trub as possible, and repitching with Coopers. So we'll see what we have when this is all done...

You really don't want to aerate this far in the game, there is more beer in there than unfermentables, and if you "hard rack" whatever the hell that is, you'll end up with 5 gallons of liquid cardboard....

You're at 1.28....I've bottle beer that finished at 1.030 before. If it's done it's done....

If racking and adding more yeast will make you happy, then do it gently you don't need more o2 in there at this point.

 

[david58]

You really don't want to aerate this far in the game, there is more beer in there than unfermentables, and if you "hard rack" whatever the hell that is, you'll end up with 5 gallons of liquid cardboard....

You're at 1.28....I've bottle beer that finished at 1.030 before. If it's done it's done....

If racking and adding more yeast will make you happy, then do it gently you don't need more o2 in there at this point.

Revvy, what about just taking a sanitzed racking cane and stirring up the trub, and then moving to a bit warmer location? Is there any sense in that?

 

[Revvy]

Revvy, what about just taking a sanitzed racking cane and stirring up the trub, and then moving to a bit warmer location? Is there any sense in that?

I wouldn't open it up to do anything. I think we've ALL been telling you to gently swirl it (keeping it closed) and moving it to a warm place since the beginning. Or should have.

You don't want too much oxygen to come in contact with the beer. If you have a warm place to move it to, then just CARRY it to the new location, that should kick up the yeast enough without need to beat it into a foam and ruining it.

 

[david58]

Update.

Success. You told me so!

Bottled two weeks ago, carbonated nicely, a really good stout. SWMBO says make another batch quick before this one is gone.

Lessons learned:
Specific Gravity
Stay in Primary
Specific Gravity
and
Specific Gravity

Cheers! I'll have another sip...