My Picobrew Thread

[bobbytuck]

Interesting. I started double-crushing -- and getting a very fine crush -- and while my OG targets were usually spot on, I found that the fine crush tended to clog up the ball valves (even with the step filter screens properly in place and a spoon face down between the top screen and the plexiglass lid).

I've since backed up to a single crush, and I've had much better luck with recirculation and a fewer free particles running through the system and clogging things (I can tell if it's clogged when my mash temp varies by more than a few degrees or my boil temps go up to 210 and then down to 203 or so. That's usually the sign of an issue somewhere in the system -- and either it needs a serious deep clean or the ball valves are clogged with grain bits.)

In terms of OG targets, I find the online recipe crafter pretty accurate. I'm not a stickler for specific styles -- and (in general) I tend to prefer more sessionable beers anyway -- and I find the normal efficiency mash works for me. But I I alternate between the schedules. Yesterday I made a Rye IPA with the high efficiency schedule plus a 60 minute whirlpool (and almost ran out of steps in the Advanced editor) but the final beer was spot on in terms of the recipe crafter's OG estimate. Normal, single crush (via Barley Crusher set at the factory default).

 

[azimmer1]

I know some of you use NB BIAB kits. Do you program the Pico for 3 gal or for 2.5 gal as the final volume. Thanks

 

[benhdavis]

Can you guys enlighten me here. I'd love to use this thing to make small batches and play with recipes without having to do a larger run.

Anyone made a Berliner Weisse on this thing? Can it keep a temp at like 100 degrees for 24 hours?

Why ferment in the keg? Is it hard to transfer to a different fermentor? How do you prevent transferring all the trub/yeast into your serving keg if you fermented in a keg?

 

[brewnz]

Can you guys enlighten me here. I'd love to use this thing to make small batches and play with recipes without having to do a larger run.

Anyone made a Berliner Weisse on this thing? Can it keep a temp at like 100 degrees for 24 hours?

Why ferment in the keg? Is it hard to transfer to a different fermentor? How do you prevent transferring all the trub/yeast into your serving keg if you fermented in a keg?

The most you can set is 999 mins per step via the advanced editor and with a maximum of 14 steps it will be more than enough I'd imagine.

I don't ferment in the brew keg I just transfer to my fermenter using the circulate option in the help menu when done.

 

[bobbytuck]

Why ferment in the keg? Is it hard to transfer to a different fermentor? How do you prevent transferring all the trub/yeast into your serving keg if you fermented in a keg?

The keg fermentation is awesome -- super easy, super convenient, and no worries about needing a blow-off. (You've got about 3-3.5 gallons of empty space above 2.5 gallons of beer.) And if you are worried about a blow-off, just put on a normal keg lid, lock it down, rig up a ball-lock to the gas in post with a 3 foot length of tubing into a growler of starsan. Done.

Plus -- and I haven't tried this yet -- the kegs allow you to ferment under pressure (with a spunding valve -- I've got one -- just not used it yet.) Set the valve to 5psi or so, and you'll be good to go. I don't know if pressurized fermentation makes much of a difference on a homebrew level, but it's an interesting option.

To prevent the yeast transfer, just cut the dip tube by about a half inch or so. I have a mini pipe cutter that I use -- takes about 2 minutes. Easy.

I've started dry hopping with leaf hops directly in the keg with a wire screen on the end of the dip tube. The only issue here is that you have to put the screen on before you start the brew itself -- and know that you'll eventually be dry hopping -- but I find whole leaf hops give a much fresher snap than pellets. So long as the screen is on, I've had no issues racking to a server keg via CO2. (This wouldn't work with pellets, though. Pellets -- unless you have some sort of double-screen -- would clog the diptube.)

The idea of transferring from fermentation keg to serving keg via CO2 is nice, too. No siphons, no risk of contamination. I use 2.5 gallon kegs for serving, and once I sanitize them, I put about two teaspoons of Biofine in the bottom for fining and then rack the beer via CO2 on top. Blast and purge the keg a couple times at 30psi to seal it and push out the air, give it one final blast, and I then can get it sit and age for however long I need before chilling and carbonating.

Finally, I find that the kegs -- especially if they're brand new -- are much easier to clean and sanitize than glass carboys or better bottles.

 

[Baja_Brewer]

The most you can set is 999 mins per step via the advanced editor

I didn't know this. Make sense, just never tried it. Cool.

 

[FlyDoctor]

The best advantage to me of few ting in the keg is the built in sanitation. If you started with a clean and sanitized keg, the boil recirculating in the keg keeps it sterile (in theory anyway). I know some on the PB forum (and perhaps here) have had infections, but hats traceable at times to people not cleaning well prior to brewing.

I would have no problem transferring to one of my BB car boys though.

 

[FlyDoctor]

I've been wondering about the berlinerweis myself - but will just pitch lacto and Sach yeast after the boil.

 

[Baja_Brewer]

The best advantage to me of few ting in the keg is the built in sanitation. If you started with a clean and sanitized keg, the boil recirculating in the keg keeps it sterile (in theory anyway). I know some on the PB forum (and perhaps here) have had infections, but hats traceable at times to people not cleaning well prior to brewing.

I would have no problem transferring to one of my BB car boys though.

True. I was 90% sure my fermentors were not the source of my infection- because they were my boil kegs. Sure enough it was my CO2 block.

I wouldn't either. 5 gallon combo batch into a 6 gallon fermentor? Sure thing.

 

[bobbytuck]

Sure enough it was my CO2 block.

How did you determine this (process of elimination?)

And what did you to the block -- boil and sanitize? I've got a 2-way distributor in my fridge and a 3-way in my other fridge -- but I'm relatively new to kegging and haven't touched these for several months once I attached everything.

I clean my picnic taps/hoses every time I change the keg, though. I wonder if I should clean these on a weekly basis?

 

[crane]

How did you determine this (process of elimination?)

And what did you to the block -- boil and sanitize? I've got a 2-way distributor in my fridge and a 3-way in my other fridge -- but I'm relatively new to kegging and haven't touched these for several months once I attached everything.

I clean my picnic taps/hoses every time I change the keg, though. I wonder if I should clean these on a weekly basis?

I think as long as you have your system running with CO2 in those lines you will be fine. My reasoning is that it should be filled with pure CO2 so you should not have any oxygen or moisture that would promote bacteria growth.

I believe the OP's issue came from the fact that his setup hadn't been used in a year or 2.

 

[KirkMN]

I would not use Lacto for a sour mash in the Zymatic. There are just too many areas that you cannot clean well enough and you'd hate to contaminate your new shiny wort maker.

I'm planning on making quite a few sours but only after I transfer new wort to the fermenter. I will also have completely different equipment for my sours after that. A nice golden ale in each its own carboy with a different strain is my goal. Should be fun.

 

[benhdavis]

I would not use Lacto for a sour mash in the Zymatic. There are just too many areas that you cannot clean well enough and you'd hate to contaminate your new shiny wort maker.

I'm planning on making quite a few sours but only after I transfer new wort to the fermenter. I will also have completely different equipment for my sours after that. A nice golden ale in each its own carboy with a different strain is my goal. Should be fun.

Thanks for the advice. I was thinking it was much easier to clean the zymatic than other equipment but makes sense.

 

[FlyDoctor]

I would not use Lacto for a sour mash in the Zymatic. There are just too many areas that you cannot clean well enough and you'd hate to contaminate your new shiny wort maker.

I'm planning on making quite a few sours but only after I transfer new wort to the fermenter. I will also have completely different equipment for my sours after that. A nice golden ale in each its own carboy with a different strain is my goal. Should be fun.

Agree - why risk contaminating this expensive new machine when it can be done in the fermenter. The circulating boil should kill things - but I'd hate to be wrong...

 

[KCBigDog]

Just started my first PicoBrew. Doing the Pico Pale Ale first.

Only thing I'm trying to determine is how I'm going to cool.

If I overnight cool, do I put the actual keg lid on?

 

[bobbytuck]

I keep the silicon top on. I cool to 95F with the Pico's cooling (5 gallon home depot bucket with several changes of water over 20 min or so.)

Then I remove the plastic foam trap, insert a normal airlock base, and cover with foil.

I let sit until next morning -- then I remove the airlock, funnel in my yeast, and then re-assemble the entire airlock -- base, plastic insert -- and fill with vodka. Then I snap on the top.

Done. For 10 days or so. Then I rack to sanitized keg with Biofine clear, seal @ 30psi, and let sit for a couple weeks (more if necessary).

 

[benhdavis]

I was got mine today -- I'm going to make the Pico Pale because it came with it, though based on the reviews doesn't sound like it's very good.

Anyone have any ideas for fixing it?

 

[bobbytuck]

I was got mine today -- I'm going to make the Pico Pale because it came with it, though based on the reviews doesn't sound like it's very good.

Anyone have any ideas for fixing it?

It's a normal pale ale -- 90% base + 10% crystal. You can always add more late addition hops or program in a whirlpool. It's actually an ideal recipe because it's simple and straightforward -- the sort of recipes that tend to (IMHO) make the best beers.

There's nothing inherently wrong with the recipe or the ingredients. The key is your water, your pH, your fermentation, the yeast you choose -- the stuff that the Pico doesn't do automatically.

I'm experimenting with saisons at the moment -- using the Belle Saison dry yeast -- but once I've made a few, I plan to cycle back to pale ales and rebrew the Pico Pale Ale with adjusted water and additional hops.

 

[KCBigDog]

Mash just finished. Only thing I don't like so far is the lid curled a little. Not flat on the step filter anymore.

 

[FlyDoctor]

I don't know if it's better yet - but I goosed the malt bill slightly on my pico pale - subbed 5% Munich for half the crystal, and subbed 5% wheat for 5% of the base malt. Kept the hops the same but will dry hop.

I also used a British yeast - the burton Union strain from mangrove jacks

 

[azimmer1]

I got my Pico today. Already rinsed and started a Bourbon Oaked Porter. What a slick machine. After 6 years of all grain brewing I am glad to not use propane and have to clean constantly

 

[KCBigDog]

Just pitched the yeast on the Pico Pale. Gotta admit, so much easier than my propane system.

Looking forward to brewing again tomorrow.

 

[KCBigDog]

Just pitched on batch #2. Mosaic Honey Wheat.

 

[benhdavis]

Just measured the OG out of my syringe and it came in at 1.050 - dead nuts on the recipe cafter's prediction even though I lost some wort during the mash.

What syringe? How did you do this? I'm frustrated with the ability to take readings.

 

[Baja_Brewer]

What syringe? How did you do this? I'm frustrated with the ability to take readings.

I think its any syringe with a Leur tapered threaded tip, like this - see the threads? They screw right into the little sight tube+port on the liquid out.

 

[bobbytuck]

These are the syringes I bought:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BQDFGBS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Took 2 tries. First box of slightly smaller syringes had a tip that didn't fit the sampler port. I highly recommend these, though -- three pulls from the sample port -- 30ml -- is a good amount for a taste and a pH reading.

I'm also using these to hold bulk hop extract. The extract comes in 100g gram cans -- so these syringes work great. Only thing they don't have is the little black caps in the picture above. Not necessary for samples, but it's nice for the extract. I've just been saving my HopShot caps.

 

[KCBigDog]

Agree with bobbytruck on the syringes. Those are perfect.

Just hit go on my third batch of the weekend, a Smoked Porter.

The Pico Pale and Mosaic Honey Wheat are already fermenting nicely at 65 degrees.

 

[Baja_Brewer]

Just kicked off a variant of this. Didn't have Vienna and only had Crystal 20L so I used 4oz. Going to either use Nottingham or S-04, leaning towards S-04.

Dry hopped my Mosaic SMaSH yesterday and my session IPA. Cleaned 3 "brew" (5 gallon) kegs. Thinking I'll pick up more 3 gallons shortly, and stuff I need for my next round of recipes....

Going to walk the dogs while I brew

 

[KCBigDog]

Just pitched the S-04 on my Smoke Porter. The sample tasted AMAZING!

Missed my OG by 3 points. 1.049 vs 1.053. First time the Pico has been off by more than 1 point.

I'm not running a clean with PBW. When it's done, I'll do a couple of rinses and should be good to go for my next brew, which will likely be next weekend.

This thing is really cool, and has put the fun back into brewing for me.

Just hope the beer tastes as good as my propane system made. (I'm guessing it will be better)

 

[bobbytuck]

I'm not running a clean with PBW. When it's done, I'll do a couple of rinses and should be good to go for my next brew, which will likely be next weekend.

Be sure to clean with PBW or homemade PBW every few brews. I made the mistake of just cleaning with the Pico tabs (Craftmeister cleaning tabs) -- and my system eventually clogged itself with crud and grain (even though I was rinsing 3 times after every batch and cleaning every five batches with the tabs).

If I know I'm not brewing for 4 or 5 days, I do the PBW full clean. If I'm brewing within a day or so -- I do severl rinses after the brew and a rinse before.

The PBW cleaning really does help make sure your temps stay consistent with the temp sensors. If you see your temp delta getting greater and greater, then you know it's overdue for a PBW deep clean.

I also recommend disassembling the ball valves every few brews and cleaning out the grain bits. No matter how careful I am when filling the step filter, there's always a bit of grain that works its way through the system and clogs the valves and inline filter. If you see your wort temp during the boil (or mash) going up or down by more than two degrees -- then you know there's a clog somewhere or something's not right.

That's the downside with the Pico -- one of the few, actually: recovering from an issue is a bit tricky. I usually hit the button to drain and then remove the filter after its drained for a bit. Today I had a mash issue where I was using 5.5# of grain for a cream ale and the water was tunneling right through and not filling the entire step filter as it should. So I hit the button, drained for a bit, and then -- with the pumps going -- removed the step filter to stir the mash. All was well when I hit "continue" -- but I always worry that I'm going to screw up and skip a step. Ended up being fine -- 1.055 or so -- right on target. Mash picked up right where it left up -- got up to 152F quickly and went right on with the mash.

I added 1/2# of sugar during the boil to make up for (what I figured) might be a significant lowering of efficiency during the mash due to the tunneling -- so that seemed to work (at least in terms of the numbers). Lesson I guess it to gently pat the grist flat after you've poured it into the step filter. I think I poured it in but didn't flatten it, so it was uneven. Figure I might have a FG that's slightly more attenuated than I'd like -- I probably didn't need to add the sugar -- but I figure it's a cream ale, so as long as it's not super-thin it should work fine.

 

[KCBigDog]

I meant that I am now doing a PBW clean. It's almost done.

Gonna rinse a couple times after.

 

[Baja_Brewer]

Just kicked off a variant of this. Didn't have Vienna and only had Crystal 20L so I used 4oz. Going to either use Nottingham or S-04, leaning towards S-04.

Dry hopped my Mosaic SMaSH yesterday and my session IPA. Cleaned 3 "brew" (5 gallon) kegs. Thinking I'll pick up more 3 gallons shortly, and stuff I need for my next round of recipes....

Going to walk the dogs while I brew

Whelp... f'd this one up. Instead of doing a Columbus boil I did a cascade/citra/columbus boil... whoops - going to be a doozy of bitter beer.

 

[KCBigDog]

Whelp... f'd this one up. Instead of doing a Columbus boil I did a cascade/citra/columbus boil... whoops - going to be a doozy of bitter beer.

That's going to have a lot of IBUs!!

 

[bobbytuck]

That's going to have a lot of IBUs!!

Maybe it's me or my water, but I always find that the Pico beers are never as bitter as I hope. That's one of the reasons why I've moved to pellet hops plus hop extract late in the boil (and into the whirlpool). Getting the hoppy bittering/flavor is tough for me. It might be the somewhat-alkaline Lake Michigan water -- even adjusted -- that doesn't do it. Or maybe it's the yeast (I use 05 mostly -- but I've been experimenting with Nottingham and recently Belle Saison.) Beers are turning out great -- but the bitterness seems a bit lagging -- even when I do a 60min boil with a high alpha like Magnum.

Dry hopping does the aroma -- but getting the bittering and flavoring is tough for me. One reason why I'm zeroing in on stouts/porters/saisons at the moment -- experimenting with more malt forward stuff until I can figure out hopping with the Pico.

I add gypsum -- and use the Bru'nwater spreadsheet with my Chicago water report -- but I can't get the hoppiness I want. Now I'm messing with late boil hop extract -- and then whirlpooling the extract in the kettle and a shot of hops in one of the bins during the whirlpool. Still waiting on some samples to see if this method works.

 

[KCBigDog]

Obviously, I won't know for sure until they ferment and carb, but the Pale Ale and Mosaic Wheat wort samples seemed very bitter to me.

I'll keep you updated. I doubt my water is much different than yours. I'm in Elgin, IL.

 

[Baja_Brewer]

That's going to have a lot of IBUs!!

Yup I actually topped it off with ~1.5 gallons of distilled water to drop the OG to 1.045 and get my volume up to ~4.5 gallons. I'll dry hop it to get some aroma back into it.

Note: as I stated - I f'd up. I ended up with 2.04oz of hops in the first hop cage (!!!) when they tell you to max out at 1.5. There was a good bit of hop overflow/back flow into the other compartments (they were empty) and hops in the lower screen.

We'll see how it turns out!

 

[bobbytuck]

Obviously, I won't know for sure until they ferment and carb, but the Pale Ale and Mosaic Wheat wort samples seemed very bitter to me.

I'll keep you updated. I doubt my water is much different than yours. I'm in Elgin, IL.

Thanks -- yeah -- please let me know. Sounds like we might be using the same exact water. Are you adding any gypsum or CaCl?

 

[KCBigDog]

Haven't done anything to the water.

 

[brewnz]

Guys, I'm 2 batches in but haven't quite worked out how to take samples using the syringe...I know that it screws onto the sample port but of course with wort always pumping through - when you unscrew the port cap wort sprays out the top (ask me how I know...) - so what's the exact procedure? is it something like 1) pause the brew, 2) remove cap 3) attach syringe 4) continue brew 5) take sample 6) pause 7) remove syringe 8) attach cap??

TIA

 

[bobbytuck]

Guys, I'm 2 batches in but haven't quite worked out how to take samples using the syringe...I know that it screws onto the sample port but of course with wort always pumping through - when you unscrew the port cap wort sprays out the top (ask me how I know...) - so what's the exact procedure? is it something like 1) pause the brew, 2) remove cap 3) attach syringe 4) continue brew 5) take sample 6) pause 7) remove syringe 8) attach cap??

TIA

What cap? I have no cap. I don't pause either. (You're pausing to take a sample? By draining the wort?)

I always take samples when the wort is cycling - once or twice during mashing to check pH and then at the end of the boil to get a gravity reading.

But I'm confused about the cap you mention.

Are you talking about the inline filter on the other (black) line? I don't touch that during the brew. Obviously, the inline filter needs to be cleaned and the filter cap tightened down during each brew. If this is removed, the suction gets screwed up and, yeah, I'd guess it might be messy.

In terms of the clear sample port on the white ball lock (Gas in) side of the keg, I just screw in a syringe, pull a sample, unscrew syringe, squirt in shot glass, and repeat two more times. I do this while the mash is mashing or the boil is boiling.

No adding or removing cap needed, no fiddling with the controls to drain or pause.

The sample port should seal by itself. I don't unscrew or remove anything when taking a sample. A little wort leaks out when I've unscrewed the syringe, but only a tiny bit -- a drop or two. Then it seals itself.

Did they add caps to the sample ports in newer Picos?

BTW -- One way to know if your circulation is messed up -- if there's grain stuck in your white ball lock/Gas in valve is when you go to take a sample and the syringe fills up by itself -- the syringe handle is pushed out by itself. I couldn't figure out why it was doing this -- then it dawned on me. Wasn't circulating right. Cleaned the ball lock, and I was back in business.